Who next?

[Fido]

Was in Thurles so I'm not qualified to say much about the debacle in Tullamore except the bleeding obvious - Roe, if he ever had them, has lost the team. He has to go. So here we go again. Who next?
I see Luke Dempsey resigned in the aftermath of Longford's defeat to Laois last night. I know that he has privately in the past expressed a desire to manage Offaly (in other words, he might actually want the job as opposed to Roe who made no secret at his disappointment at not getting Laois from the off). He would also know a bit about Offaly, the Rhode contingent especially through his dealings with many of them. He's taken an average bunch of Longford players (Barden excepted maybe) and made them competetive over a number of seasons, certainly more competetive than we've been ourselves recently. Even last night they lost narrowly, just didn't have the players in the end but were obviously still motivated. We have a situation in Offaly where we have some very good players but any team that performs like we did last night is in a dark night of the soul and needs lifting. It's a perfect opportunity for someone with the ambition and ability to come in and change that. Dempsey is well known but not a "big name", experienced but not a busted flush. He can motivate and get players to play above themselves. I believe he wants the job. Could he be the man?

[Kemo Sabe]

roe has to go its as simplr as that . i blame the county board what in gods name wer the doing getting a laois man to manage offaly in the first place .

[black and red exile]

I think most of us are sick to death of the senior footballers and their carry on year after year. Ok the management will quite rightly take their fair share of blame but these players have not performed in the qualifers for whatever reason only they know themselves. They have no pride whatsoever in the jersey they are wearing. Last year in the Cooper cup in Aughrim was the worst I have ever seen in all my years watching Offaly footballers but hearing reports today in Croke Park from about a dozen people who were in Tullamore last night the performance against Down had to be seen to be believed. In Thurles yesterday evening a group of us just could not get our heads around the updates that were coming in from O' Connor Park, I don't think any of us could believe that we could sink this low and I'm pretty sure the mood in the County right at this moment is that nobody gives a hoot who our next manager will be because until we get lads who will sweat blood to put on a tri-colour jersey then we will be giving out about the same thing again this time next year and I for one am totally sick of it.

[Fido]

I'd agree with a lot of that but remember a lot of these same players got us to a Leinster final a couple of years ago. A lot of people here are saying how some of these players think too much of themselves and that's understandable, but I think the opposite is the case - they must have no self belief at all to go down as badly as that. I'm sure whoever comes in (and surely somebody else will be coming in...?) will want to clear out some of the dead wood but he'll also need to build up the confidence of those that stay on in the panel, if for no other reason than to give some guidance to the young lads who'll be coming through from this year's minors and other recent minor teams, who deserve our full support and every chance to do well. I can see an approach like what the hurlers have done working, bringing in young lads with no fear and getting rid of lads who've been ground down by so many desperate performances. But you can't wash your hands of every player who played on saturday evening, some of them still have plenty to give and they need the right man to build them back up. It's vital that whoever next manages Offaly take a leaf from Joe Dooley, acting out of a real concern for the good of Offaly and giving pride and confidence back to the jersey. It'd be a real shame to see the younger lads coming through get dragged down to the level of apathy, mediocrity, fear, call it what you will that the seniors seem to be stuck in now.

[azoffaly]

Lads, if fellas are not training, or not preparing themselves properly for the Qualifiers, after bitching and whinging about not being in it last year, then they have no place pulling on a jersey that means the world to a lot of people. Lone Shark alluded to a few things, and I heard some stuff myself, indirectly from someone very close to the set up. It's nothing we haven't heard before, and when you get to the stage where management are being changed left, right and centre and it's the same sort of stuff happening every year, I'm afraid it's hard to draw any other conclusion. I hate getting stuck into players, and I've refrained from posting too much today because I am too damn angry to tell you the truth.

All I will say is that when I was lucky enough to pull on that jersey at various levels, they were the proudests moment of my life outside a couple of personal events. I never failed to get a buzz when the jersey was thrown to me, and I still get a buzz pulling it on to play indoor soccer, or to go to a match, sad and all as that is. I love my county, and I loved representing it. We were stone useless a lot of times, but jaysus we at least tried as best we could. That is the least, and the most, I would ask any man. Anything else is unacceptable. Totally unacceptable.

I'm not naming individuals, especially not as a semi anonymous poster on an internet discussion board. That's pointless. But what I would say to them collectively is if you are not interested then p*ss off. Don't be wasting your time, or our time. And don't dare claim to represent me, or anyone else, because I don't care how good you are, or think you are, if you do not try your best, you are not representing Offaly in a way that it deserves to be represented.

Give me 15 plodders, who are honest and committed, and I'll support them and encourage them, and defend them until the cows come home.

Come on lads. At least give us a chance to be proud of our footballers again. For effort at the very least. Ye are better than this, and the name and tradition of Offaly sure as hell deserves better than this.

[faithful till I die]

. But what I would say to them collectively is if you are not interested then p*ss off. Don't be wasting your time, or our time. And don't dare claim to represent me, or anyone else, because I don't care how good you are, or think you are, if you do not try your best, you are not representing Offaly in a way that it deserves to be represented.

Give me 15 plodders, who are honest and committed, and I'll support them and encourage them, and defend them until the cows come home.

Come on lads. At least give us a chance to be proud of our footballers again. For effort at the very least. Ye are better than this, and the name and tradition of Offaly sure as hell deserves better than this.

Exactly !I am raging. Each player needs to take a long hard look at themselves today & if they are not 100% committed to turning this situation around next year, well then they need to do the county a favour & walk away now. We are simply not talented enough to get away with anything less than full commitment. It kills me to be feeling like this about our own players but they should be ashamed of themselves. Fermanagh are a prime example of what can be achieved by a small county with genuine whole hearted & true players. Come on Offaly wake up before its too late.

[Bord na Mona man]

I heard that Roe has just resigned.
He might as well blow the lid now and reveal if he felt he was getting full co-operation from all the players.
My feeling is that what he has been saying to the media all this year in not what he actually feels.

The problems with Offaly football won't go away by changing managers though.

[Fido]

The problems with Offaly football won't go away by changing managers though.

They will eventually if it's the right man, and if there's a complete change of climate, attitude and thinking. Which is why it's so important that the right manager gets the job, gets rid of lads who aren't trying and gets everyone pulling in the same direction again. But another bad manager won't change a bloody thing. And it's not going to be a quick fix no matter if Matt Busby, Shankley or Jock Stein got resurrected.

[DD]

The problems with Offaly football won't go away by changing managers though.

They will eventually if it's the right man, and if there's a complete change of climate, attitude and thinking. Which is why it's so important that the right manager gets the job, gets rid of lads who aren't trying and gets everyone pulling in the same direction again. But another bad manager won't change a bloody thing. And it's not going to be a quick fix no matter if Matt Busby, Shankley or Jock Stein got resurrected.

Good post Fido. The last thing we should look for is a quick fix. As you said we should look to get everyone to pull in the same direction and this has to be part of a medium to long term strategy of which the senior county manger is part of but not the sole solution.
I feel the man must come from within the county and know the club and underage scene thoroughly. He must be given a minimum of 3 years to build a team/panel and there must be a link within the senior mangement set up and the U-21 and minor structures to track player development.
In some ways the incoming manger will be at a great advantage as he will be starting at ground zero and he will be in a position to put his stamp on things from day one. Most importantly he must be given the time and be allowed a setback or two along the way.
Is there a will within the county board or indeed the county to look at the bigger picture and put in place a set up like this?

[azoffaly]

The problem with that is we had such a man, with exactly that plan, and the supposed blessing of the county board to carry it out. What happened? He had a decent year (a great one by our standards at the moment), blooded youngsters like Niall McNamee, and then had to suffer the ignomony of being hauled up before a review committee to explain himself, before getting the bullet.

Step forward Paul O'Kelly, the man who could have had us at least competitive in Leinster, but who was shafted because the county board were spooked by Laois winning Leinster in 2003.

[DD]

The problem with that is we had such a man, with exactly that plan, and the supposed blessing of the county board to carry it out. What happened? He had a decent year (a great one by our standards at the moment), blooded youngsters like Niall McNamee, and then had to suffer the ignomony of being hauled up before a review committee to explain himself, before getting the bullet.

Step forward Paul O'Kelly, the man who could have had us at least competitive in Leinster, but who was shafted because the county board were spooked by Laois winning Leinster in 2003.

When I seen Ollie Daly walking up the steps of the stand past me at half at half time on Saturday night, I wanted to publicly ask him was he now happy with the situation he had a large hand in creating... fortunately I kept me mouth shut..

[azoffaly]

I had a thought this morning, driving into work, about this. (Sad I know)

If I was the new manager of Offaly, and appointed in the next couple of weeks, I would do the following.

Arrange for myself and every other selector to divide the county up, and go visit the clubs on a training night. Ask permission from the mentors at the club for 5 minutes to address the players. I'd introduce myself, my thoughts, and my aims and plan of how to get there, briefly. I would tell them that each and every one of them is eligible for selection for the county team, and the initial invitations will be based on form in the club championship.

I would ensure that myself or one of my selectors would visit each adult club team in Offaly, Junior through Senior.

Then, to back this up, I would ask the county board to approve funding for about 10 other hand picked people, of the selection teams choosing, who would act as talent scouts for us. Their involvement would only last officially until the end of the county championships.

I would explain to each of them the particular type of player we are looking for. Good sticky full backs. Energetic half backs. Fielding midfielders. Ball Winning half forwards, accurate corner forwards, or whatever it may be. Obviously club players may play in different positions, like forwards in midfield, based on the strength or needs of their club teams, but seasoned 'scouts' would still be able to spot the attributes that could be applied to a different position.

Then, I would ensure, in as much as is humanly possible, that each of us 15 or so 'scout' every single championship game from Senior to Junior in a bid to make sure that no stone was left uncovered. I would ask each person to provide feedback in a predefined format on the game, and any players that caught their eye.

At the end of the process, when each player in the county will have been watched a few times by different members of the scouting team, I would collate the results, get together with the real selectors, and send out invitations to those players that the scouts have strongly recommended.

Maybe the players are not there, but at least this way it would be a professional approach to trying to identify the best players that *are* there, and you can work from there. Some lads will turn down the invite. Some lads will not make the grade, some lads will not give the committment, but at least every player in the county will know that he has a chance of getting a call.

The management will know, and the public will know, that every effort has been made, and whatever list of players is in there in January for the O'Byrne cup will be the best possible combination of players available.

It's the least that should be done in my opinion.

[manfromdelmonte]

sure didn't Mick O'D do the same sort of thing in wicklow

had 4/5 trial games where any player was free to come along and give it a shot

over 100 did.

But I'd agree. club players have to know that there are people watching club games with a view to selecting players for the county team. county panels cannot be selected on reputations

[the bare biffo]

Thats an awful lot of effort there AZ for what I would suspect would be a limited return.
I doubt if identifying the best 30 or 40 panelists (panelists not footballers) is really that difficult a task.

The problem seems to be what goes on when they are in there. Afterall, only 2 years ago, practically the same panel of players beat Westmeath, Kildare and Wexford en route to a Leinster Final where they were not entirely humiliated by Dublin.

I dont know exactly what the answer is. It's easy to plump for the local man appointment because the lack of passion for the jersey seems to be a huge problem and you might think a local man would be better at instilling that passion in the players. But then Tommy Lyons came in at a time when the footballers were also at one of their lowest points and whatever happened later he was able to resurrect pride in the jersey and bring the only senior silverware to the county since 1982. I dont think a big name is what the county needs either. That comes when a lesser light has taken a talented panel as far as he can and it needs a different kind of motivation to get to the next level.
Based purely on reputation, someone like Luke Dempsey would seem like a good option to me, or maybe Des Dolan if he decides he has done all he can with Leitrim. But whoever it is, getting whatever panelists he has, to buy in to his plans, will be the most important job he will have.

[azoffaly]

It is a lot of effort, but I think the new manager needs to put out the message that things are different. Everyone will be watched, and only those who merit inclusion will be picked. Also, lads with the wrong attitude, or who can't give the committment will be thanked, and dropped.

At this stage, as someone said before, it's quite hard to get off the panel, and therefore lads feel as if they're never going to be picked no matter what happens. Give them an incentive, and prove that this is a new regime, and a new approach.