management

[baz]

first of all that johnny flaherty rant got right up my nose .while he was right in what he said it should have been radio 3 commentator asking him the same questions as its johnny who is supposed to be guradian of youth hurling in offaly and come up with answers not the bloody questions .all talk no action .as for DOOLEY politics clearly got him that job .we need someone who knows what they are doing and not not chancing their arm .put it this way horan got u21 to b eat kilkenny in their own backyard and if played dublin anywhere else other than parnell we would have beaten them .pat joe got birr (every said they were no good ) to an allireland .every one is very quick to critize these two when they lose but have proven within offaly their record speaks for themselfs .heres the question if DOOLEY was in their shoes in same circumstances would he have same success last year with either of those teams .i put my house on it he would not ,so why has he got the main job in offaly hurling .my thinking is ,we lose by 13 last year (should have beaten tipp and we unluckly in league ) we should with young team have been less than 10 points this year .playing 2FULLBACKS in forward line is completlely ridiculess ,what was he looking at in training ,everyone could see that it wasnt working ,cleary has lost complete confidence (best full back we had last year ) .kenny and oakley fair play to them had good games but the point is DOOLEY left them in no mans land going into game .ie the could have been destroyed .remember where he played them during the league .oakley got some goals at centre forward and dooley turns round in championsip plays him centre back and puts a fullback in centre forward .that is some brain wave ,how are you supposed to compete at this level with that crap .its a managers job to properly prepare ,train ,motivate and pick the team properly .if he does that then fair enough with the beating ,but it hasnt been the case .first time i ever saw hanniffy not bothering going into and playing in match .what does that say for behind the scenes abd standard of training .have heard that some of the players have said the training with offaly is shite .if brady and bergin were not fit to start ,how come they came on in first half and lasted the game .i know players have to stand up but you have to give them a chance ,too many around 25 to 28 year age bracket discarded .also if your going to play joe brady you play him on edge of square and tell him to stay there ,playing him more than 20 yards from the goals is nonscence an d lacking cop on .

[INOFFALYIBELIEVE]

]quote="baz"].playing 2FULLBACKS in forward line is completlely ridiculess ,what was he looking at in training ,everyone could see that it wasnt working ,cleary has lost complete confidence (best full back we had last year ) .kenny and oakley fair play to them had good games but the point is DOOLEY left them in no mans land going into game .ie the could have been destroyed .remember where he played them during the league .oakley got some goals at centre forward and dooley turns round in championsip plays him centre back and puts a fullback in centre forward .that is some brain wave ,how are you supposed to compete at this level with that crap .its a managers job to properly prepare ,train ,motivate and pick the team properly .if he does that then fair enough with the beating ,but it hasnt been the case.[/quote]

Could you explain to me how DOOLEY left kenny and oakley 'in no man's land going into the game', just because they played in a different position in the league hardly justifies your assertion that they were in no mans land...

As for 'they could have been destroyed' statement, i dont know where ya are coming out with that from, im assuming DOOLEY goes the odd offaly training session and maybe even challenge matches and sees hows these lads are playing in them positions...you seem to suggest that he left 15 jersesys on the table and asked the lads to pick one in turn and line out according to the jersey they pick up... to quote yourself 'cop on'

Kenny & oakley were up there with out best performers on the day, and to suggest that they played well in those positions by
accident is a bit much...

[Bord na Mona man]

first of all that johnny flaherty rant got right up my nose .while he was right in what he said it should have been radio 3 commentator asking him the same questions as its johnny who is supposed to be guradian of youth hurling in offaly and come up with answers not the bloody questions .all talk no action .as for DOOLEY politics clearly got him that job .we need someone who knows what they are doing and not not chancing their arm .put it this way horan got u21 to b eat kilkenny in their own backyard and if played dublin anywhere else other than parnell we would have beaten them .pat joe got birr (every said they were no good ) to an allireland .every one is very quick to critize these two when they lose but have proven within offaly their record speaks for themselfs .heres the question if DOOLEY was in their shoes in same circumstances would he have same success last year with either of those teams .i put my house on it he would not ,so why has he got the main job in offaly hurling .my thinking is ,we lose by 13 last year (should have beaten tipp and we unluckly in league ) we should with young team have been less than 10 points this year .playing 2FULLBACKS in forward line is completlely ridiculess ,what was he looking at in training ,everyone could see that it wasnt working ,cleary has lost complete confidence (best full back we had last year ) .kenny and oakley fair play to them had good games but the point is DOOLEY left them in no mans land going into game .ie the could have been destroyed .remember where he played them during the league .oakley got some goals at centre forward and dooley turns round in championsip plays him centre back and puts a fullback in centre forward .that is some brain wave ,how are you supposed to compete at this level with that crap .its a managers job to properly prepare ,train ,motivate and pick the team properly .if he does that then fair enough with the beating ,but it hasnt been the case .first time i ever saw hanniffy not bothering going into and playing in match .what does that say for behind the scenes abd standard of training .have heard that some of the players have said the training with offaly is shite .if brady and bergin were not fit to start ,how come they came on in first half and lasted the game .i know players have to stand up but you have to give them a chance ,too many around 25 to 28 year age bracket discarded .also if your going to play joe brady you play him on edge of square and tell him to stay there ,playing him more than 20 yards from the goals is nonscence an d lacking cop on .

Jaysus,
could you use paragraphs and capital letters to make this easier to read?
Agree on Flaherty.
He can't totally divorce himself from what is going on in Offaly hurling.

[gutless08]

ok baz il make this short and sweet,il deal in fact not innuendo as 2 what joe dooley could or could not have done with other teams.Pat joe was there in 89 when antrim made a laughing stock out of us, and p horan was there when a gud offaly team got beating by a very poor dublin team.

fair point on oakley been an option at centre forward, sumthing we have 2 look at as we have other options at centre back ,where he did reasonable sunday, as 4 cleary he did look lost at centre forward , but what every1 on this site needs 2 realise is hes 2 slow when hes turned ,thats why hes not full back and why birr moved him out 2 centre back ,portumna exposed his pace and maybe joe dooley is shrewder than people think, get behind joe and his team.

[Bord na Mona man]

Ah lads, ye are taking the p1ss now.

txt spk is 2 d-cult to rd.
i dont c y ppl cant rite normal.

[royalblue]

Lads its not fair to blame Joe Dooley its the county board.They should have got a high profile caoch like Davy Fitz and put Joe working with him. I can see his point in moving Paul Cleary to forwards and probably was full sure that Niall Claffey was returning to the panel. Ger Oakley is a better bacls man than forward and is an obivious choice for Centre back.

Ger Healion is more of a backs man as well he tried hard on Sunday but didnt use his head he hurled if he was some one from Meath or Kerry he started to run in to no mans land with the ball and then got bottled up for a big man Brian Hogan pushed him out of the way.

Tactics have a lot to do with in hurling and Offaly didnt play their traditional game of ground hurling and fast striking.
We hit a lot of high ball for the half forward line and i say we only won a few men like Tommy Walshe and Hogan loves this,

All is not lost however a few positional switches like moving Hannify up will help on his game he is one of the best forwards in Ireland also i think we should move Brendan Murphy to Full Forward leave Cleary Centre and move Joe to Wing Forward.

I would leave Hayden in Corner forward he will come good at underage level he always did it going back as far as u14 intercounty level.

[baz]

gutless ; it was 89" and most of that team were effected by coughlan tragedty .anyways how many all irelands has he managed .ok with horan he got to finals but didnt win ,but the point is they have been there as managers ,while dooley has achieved what (got ran out of toomevara after i think 6 weeks ) so on what basis did he get county job .i agree not his fault but county board but for an experience hurling man theres no sense in what hes doing .the reson i use the pharse "no mans land" ,is that he hasnt exactly given them much of a chance in those positions .tell me this would cody play a lad centreback in league and change him to centre forward in championship ,he would in his arse .any fool knew that cleary was not going to work in forwards ,could see that in training ,so what was dooley looking at .if cleary ( who didnt do much wrong last year ) was fullback and kenny out at halfback line with hanniffy centre back ,are you seriously trying to say that wouldnt be a stronger back line .hanniffy done his best hurling at centre back in past ,he commands the position (bescause he knows it ) better than oakley .
as for pat joe with cleary ,it was either play claffey fullback or the sideline (claffey tell you that himself )birr couldnt afford to drop claffey .what happened in final as cleary said the day past them by .can happen anyone on final day .that has nothing to do with shrewness of joe dooley .and at club level very few is going to take cleary apart at centre back .
ps brendan murphy hasnt been worth a curse for 3 years for offaly ,how on earth is he still there and certain others were discarded .
Have to laugh at some people ,dont critise JOE DOOLEY but critise pat roe for doing litterly the same thing .

[gutless08]

baz sorry 89, i was at it, yes the coughlan tragedy happened , dnt c that as the reason 4 the loss, in kilkenny maybe mcgarrys tragedy inspired.did brian cody never not switch tommy walsh from wing forward to corner back within the same season. cody is expierienced and ruthless and after ten years of management at intercounty level is at his peak, and lets not forget he went back to the drawing board after defeats to galway and cork and adopted big men on half forward line.time will see how shrewd joe turns out to be. as for cleary i stand up and say i dont think hes good enough to be full back on the county team, i think david gave an example of how a full back should play ,out in front , not easily turned and pacy, good in air, can read the game etc . i dont see cleary as this type of player . maybe the game has changed eg look at the roasting corbett gave o sullivan.as for been a dominant centre back in offaly with birr i agree yeah but against poor club teams in offaly.
i have to agree about murphy , potential and producing it are to different things, hes 27 or 28 now, he clearly cant produce it consistently

[Over The Black Spot]

Well lads, I’ve been meaning to throw in my tuppence worth since the weekend but Féile preparations have taken preference but here goes.

Firstly, on the appointment of Joe Dooley.

There were three candidates for the job. Padraig Horan had managed the under-21s in 2007 and done quite well with them but failed to get over the line. This may have worked against him in two ways in that this may have been viewed as a failure and may also have been viewed as a chance for him to achieve something with the team in 2008. Aidan Fogarty was also a candidate but had really been off the scene at club level in Offaly for too long to be viewed as a serious candidate if there was someone else fit for the job.

That left Joe Dooley. He had a bad experience with Toomevara by all accounts but that’s not something that should have entered the equation for the Offaly Co Board as that club are particularly adept at blaming managers as a cover up for their lack of bottle in the real heat of battle as has been borne out by results over the years. He had done a somewhat decent job with Tullamore and had managed to rekindle interest in the game in the town if nothing else so his motivational abilities wouldn’t have been in question. On top of his record as a player, he had the inter-county selectorial experience of Pat McLoughney and the ear to the ground at club and underage level of Brendan Kelly on his ticket and would have been the logical choice of the candidates looking for the job. People spoke of Padjo in glowing terms but for all his success with Birr, he did have a failed attempt with Offaly previously and his foray into Limerick didn’t do anything to suggest his inter-county management career would set any sparks flying. Put this on top of his relationship with the Co Board in times gone by and it’s not hard to rule him out.

Personally, I would have sought out a manager because I wouldn’t have given it to any of the candidates but that’s only personal opinion and not something that would have been possible when it became common knowledge who had applied for the job. Either way, Joe has the job and I for one won’t be missing any games because I don’t approve of the manager so we’ll all row in behind him as they say.

In terms of team selection, I think he’s got a lot of things wrong but I can see the logic in some of what he’s done. Placing David Kenny at 3 has been lambasted by many but I see it as the only option. Ger Oakley for all his endeavour and honesty doesn’t have the hurling to be considered safe around the square and Paul Cleary doesn’t have the toughness. With Rory tied up or injured for much of the year, Oakley was always going to end up at 6. He was tried at 11 for a while but any manager worth his salt will try something new once in a while so no criticism of Joe for at least having a go. Midfield was a problem all year only masked by the superior fitness levels of Conor Mahon to most of his league opponents which carried the day in most games but was never going to wash against serious championship contenders. On the other hand, he had earned a crack at the position through his league performances so Joe’s hand was forced in a way. Unfortunately, his lack of natural ability was badly exposed for two goals against the cats and as someone said here earlier in the week, he would be a help to the footballers but hasn’t got the hurling for senior inter-county. James Rigney will never be up to the standard because of his size in my opinion and we saw that in no uncertain terms on Sunday. His hurling ability can’t be disputed and his work rate is second to none but size is against him and it’s hard to see him bridging the gap.

The forward line is where the problems lie for most teams on the periphery like Offaly and it’s where Offalys problem has been for a few years now. We have struggled to fill the gaps down the centre since John Troy and John Ryan manned them and they decided to try something different. Paul Cleary was viewed as having the hurling for this level but not the pace or meanness for full-back so was tried at 11 and 14. To me, the experiment failed and Paul is not good enough but they persevered probably because of the lack of an alternative. It’s time to extend the net I feel. Thinking back to when John Troy first hurled at 11under Cregan, there’s not too many who would have thought it would work but we all know where it led to. Similarly with Ger Healion, he may not have the necessary ability to make it but had a relatively good league so earned a crack in the championship 15 at least. The rest of the forward line his seen more of the same old faces coming and going as in previous years but the options are few and far between, so what do we do? Derek Molloy is relatively green at this level and with youth on his side can be given the benefit of the doubt for now but running out by JJ Delaney twice in an attempt to tackle when all he needed to do was stand him up and keep the pressure stinks of lack of ability or lack of coaching and most people know the solution for both problems.

All in all, things look gloomy at the minute but I believe with the right management and the right players, we’d have a chance against anyone. The get all these ingredients to the table at the same time is a whole other trick and one I’m not sure how you’d go about doing!!!!!!

As for Johnny Flaherty, he’d do well to remember two things. One is that he is the ‘supposed’ director of hurling in the county and is obviously making a rats arse of it if the underage structures are anything to go by. Also, he doesn’t have to go back so far to remember days against Kilkenny when he himself lined out and the results weren’t all that different.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Some very interesting points there, OTBS, and I am generally in agreement with your observations therein.

I’d that while Aidan Fogarty had the greater experience of club management it was his proposed backroom team that was his downfall.

Incidentally, where did Flaherty make those comments? Was it on Radio3 or national radio? It’s just I didn’t hear them myself and onlyt read reports of them on this medium.

[gutless08]

GREAT POST OVER THE BLACK SPOT. THOROUGHLY ENJOYED IT AND IN FULL AGREEMENT.