Dual Clubs

[bazza]

A lot of dual clubs seem to be struggling this year with the amount of games they have to play. I must admit I like the two groups of six as I think the more games teams get the better. However it is hard on the dual club - take Ferbane/Belmont for example - They got beaten last Friday evening by Birr. Ideally they would like to head back to the hurling field and get 2 weeks hard training in for their final group hurling match. But some of their players will be concentrating on the football this weekend. Lads will be missing from hurling training this week so in essence they only have next week to prepare for the hurling match. And we all know that in the week leading up to a big match you can do very little only wind down. This is very hard on the dual clubs. So what I would suggest is that we play off the hurling and football in blocks of fixtures. How about giving the hurling 3 weekends in a row to allow teams build up momentum and then giving the football 3 weekends in a row for the same reason, rather than this situation of switching every second weekend. The fixtures committee could announce at the start of the season roughly when these blocks of fixtures would take place and thus give lads a chance to book holidays, etc, and also give managers an idea of how to adapt training in order for his side to be peaking. Maybe some will argue that it isn't fair on the hulers of Coolderry or the footballers of Rhode, for example, but a dual player is a special thing and we have a proud tradition of them in Offaly and I feel we need to give them every chance they can and not be stifling their progress.

[drummy]

i like this proposal. i come from an intermediate hurling club and i think it would do us no harm to have games together and have good physical training in the mean time. this would both benefit hurlers, footballers and duel players. id be surprised however if this was implemented

[Lone Shark]

I'd say most clubs in Offaly try to play both sports, and I'd include in that clubs that would have a clear first sport but who still make a genuine attempt at their second sport such as Edenderry, Clara or Birr, would agree with that post as I would too.

However the problem in Offaly is that for reasons of politics and keeping everyone sweet, we're stalling instead of making an actual clear decision. We don't state clearly that we want to encourage dual players, and neither does our structure support it, but on the other hand neither do we come straight out and say that by attempting to support dual players we are preventing our county from excelling in either code and thus the greater good is best served by running the two independently and by doing a minimal amount to facilitate both, as is currently the way.

I would prefer a structure as Bazza has suggested, however I am also from a dual parish so it's easy to say that. The real test would be if it was put to a vote at county board level - that would be another issue entirely.

[bracknaghboy]

However the problem in Offaly is that for reasons of politics and keeping everyone sweet, we're stalling instead of making an actual clear decision. We don't state clearly that we want to encourage dual players, and neither does our structure support it, but on the other hand neither do we come straight out and say that by attempting to support dual players we are preventing our county from excelling in either code and thus the greater good is best served by running the two independently and by doing a minimal amount to facilitate both, as is currently the way.

You've hit the nail on the head here!

[Plain of the Herbs]

Here we go again. For the benefit of those with short memories we have just had four weeks without any Senior hurling matches, the time being devoted to playing football or visiting their granny or whatever.

Out of curiosity, given that you brought up Ferbane/Belmont, just how many are currently playing Senior hurling for Belmont and Senior football for Ferbane? Hardly any, I'd say. And there's no fear of Ferbane Minors being burned out from playing Minor hurling either, is there?

A lot of dual clubs seem to be struggling this year with the amount of games they have to play. I must admit I like the two groups of six as I think the more games teams get the better. However it is hard on the dual club - take Ferbane/Belmont for example - They got beaten last Friday evening by Birr. Ideally they would like to head back to the hurling field and get 2 weeks hard training in for their final group hurling match. But some of their players will be concentrating on the football this weekend. Lads will be missing from hurling training this week so in essence they only have next week to prepare for the hurling match. And we all know that in the week leading up to a big match you can do very little only wind down. This is very hard on the dual clubs. So what I would suggest is that we play off the hurling and football in blocks of fixtures. How about giving the hurling 3 weekends in a row to allow teams build up momentum and then giving the football 3 weekends in a row for the same reason, rather than this situation of switching every second weekend. The fixtures committee could announce at the start of the season roughly when these blocks of fixtures would take place and thus give lads a chance to book holidays, etc, and also give managers an idea of how to adapt training in order for his side to be peaking. Maybe some will argue that it isn't fair on the hulers of Coolderry or the footballers of Rhode, for example, but a dual player is a special thing and we have a proud tradition of them in Offaly and I feel we need to give them every chance they can and not be stifling their progress.

[Lone Shark]

Here we go again. For the benefit of those with short memories we have just had four weeks without any Senior hurling matches, the time being devoted to playing football or visiting their granny or whatever.

Out of curiosity, given that you brought up Ferbane/Belmont, just how many are currently playing Senior hurling for Belmont and Senior football for Ferbane? Hardly any, I'd say. And there's no fear of Ferbane Minors being burned out from playing Minor hurling either, is there?

In fairness, there aren't that many this year but that's because the system forced a lot of people to pick one or t'other. Belmont in particular got the brunt of that losing a few key lads. Colin Egan going to America knocked out one obvious dual player so that leaves Liam Browne, Shane Nally, Ciarán McManus, Ciarán Kenny that I can think of. Not a lot, but still a significant group to any club all the same particularly as most of those would be starters in both codes.

[Long John]

I agree totally with Lone Shark. The system is terrible and does nothing for dual clubs.

Plain of the herbs is right in saying their had not been any hurling chamoionship for a number of weeks but the dual clubs had football championship and I know for a fact some lads that played hurling championship last week had not pucked a ball in the weeks leading up to it because of football championship. Its a complete disadvantage to these teams. I dont care if its only two or three players as has been brought up in Belmonts case, the fact is those two or three players are still not getting the chance to prepare like the solely hurling clubs. Look at Ferbane, Ciaran Kenny would be one of their best players and he doesnt puck a ball for weeks before championship. How can that not affect Belmont. If Joe Bergin had not been able to hurl for 4 weeks would he be as instrumental for Clareen.

The county board have to make this an even playing field for all clubs to at least be able to prepare for championship. The system of Football one week and hurling the next only allows one week of training before the championship and which as everybody knows is generally a light training week. The week prior to that the concentration will be on football where the likes of Clareen, Coolderry and so on are going flat out with an intense training week in hurling and can get a challenge game in where the dual club will be playing football that weekend.
Tullamore proved it last year the difference in being able to concentrate on hurling.

[azoffaly]

Here we go again. For the benefit of those with short memories we have just had four weeks without any Senior hurling matches, the time being devoted to playing football or visiting their granny or whatever.

Out of curiosity, given that you brought up Ferbane/Belmont, just how many are currently playing Senior hurling for Belmont and Senior football for Ferbane? Hardly any, I'd say. And there's no fear of Ferbane Minors being burned out from playing Minor hurling either, is there?

In fairness, there aren't that many this year but that's because the system forced a lot of people to pick one or t'other. Belmont in particular got the brunt of that losing a few key lads. Colin Egan going to America knocked out one obvious dual player so that leaves Liam Browne, Shane Nally, Ciarán McManus, Ciarán Kenny that I can think of. Not a lot, but still a significant group to any club all the same particularly as most of those would be starters in both codes.

Doesn't Rocky Daly hurl as well? He used to start for Belmont anyway.

[Lone Shark]

Doesn't Rocky Daly hurl as well? He used to start for Belmont anyway.

Himself and Gerry Grehan went with football only this year. Not sure if they're playing junior or not though.

[joe bloggs]

I agree totally with Lone Shark. The system is terrible and does nothing for dual clubs.

Plain of the herbs is right in saying their had not been any hurling chamoionship for a number of weeks but the dual clubs had football championship and I know for a fact some lads that played hurling championship last week had not pucked a ball in the weeks leading up to it because of football championship. Its a complete disadvantage to these teams. I dont care if its only two or three players as has been brought up in Belmonts case, the fact is those two or three players are still not getting the chance to prepare like the solely hurling clubs. Look at Ferbane, Ciaran Kenny would be one of their best players and he doesnt puck a ball for weeks before championship. How can that not affect Belmont. If Joe Bergin had not been able to hurl for 4 weeks would he be as instrumental for Clareen.

The county board have to make this an even playing field for all clubs to at least be able to prepare for championship. The system of Football one week and hurling the next only allows one week of training before the championship and which as everybody knows is generally a light training week. The week prior to that the concentration will be on football where the likes of Clareen, Coolderry and so on are going flat out with an intense training week in hurling and can get a challenge game in where the dual club will be playing football that weekend.
Tullamore proved it last year the difference in being able to concentrate on hurling.

It is very easy to say the present sysytem is unfair on dual clubs, but can you offer an alternative that will appeal to all clubs

[Lone Shark]

It is very easy to say the present sysytem is unfair on dual clubs, but can you offer an alternative that will appeal to all clubs

Of course not, that's the point. Either you decide you are a dual county and you put in place a system to facilitate dual players and inconvenience everyone else, or else you run the two sports independently and accept that the dual player and possibly even the dual club will essentially cease to exist. Neither is an easy choice to make but I do get the impression that right now we're falling between the two stools while marginally tending towards the former.

[bracknaghboy]

What has to be considered here is the run that our county hurlers and footballers get through the summer. The footballers got a good qualifier draw this year which extended their season and meant the club championships were held up. I guess if a new proposal was in place (i.e. play 3 weeks hurling then 3 weeks football etc) the county board would have no idea how the intercounty teams would fare? No easy fix but I'd like to see a proposal from each club in the county. Its amazing what ideas could be put forward it everyone is asked to contribute to a problem.

[Lone Shark]

What has to be considered here is the run that our county hurlers and footballers get through the summer. The footballers got a good qualifier draw this year which extended their season and meant the club championships were held up. I guess if a new proposal was in place (i.e. play 3 weeks hurling then 3 weeks football etc) the county board would have no idea how the intercounty teams would fare? No easy fix but I'd like to see a proposal from each club in the county. Its amazing what ideas could be put forward it everyone is asked to contribute to a problem.

The problem with that is that clubs will obviously suit themselves. Our system is replicating Kilkenny, which is fine except that Kilkenny don't play any county or club football in the summer. Coolderry will obviously suggest that club hurling continues while county football is being played or as near as makes no difference, while Birr won't because they'd be losing a good player in Sean Ryan. Equally Rhode would be delighted to play football while the hurling is ongoing, but Tullamore would rightly be aghast at the prospect as they'd lose their best forward.

Clubs will always act in their own best interests, and you can't blame them for that. It's up to the county board executive to decide what's better for Offaly as a whole,club and county players alike. Myself I don't see why we don't just play a longer league with games scheduled for the summer and playable without county players. It's not ideal but it's better than having lads sitting idle. I also agree with the idea of blocks of games as well, so clubs have some way of preparing. Perhaps each code gets two rounds in before the start of the qualifiers? You'd really need to sit down with a calendar and take a lot of factors into account though.

[Extra time]

while the subject is here it has to be said that all the brosna players on the panel last sat are all involved in football apart from 1 which is ger spain who is 49 so to say ferbane belmont have 4 or 5 playin both and that its hard on them is a joke!the 24 that do play turn in good displays week in week out (wit the exception of the coolderry game where they were just outclassed)!teams in offaly need to toughen up and stop making excuses then offaly might make a significant impact in next years championship!

[Lone Shark]

while the subject is here it has to be said that all the brosna players on the panel last sat are all involved in football apart from 1 which is ger spain who is 49 so to say ferbane belmont have 4 or 5 playin both and that its hard on them is a joke!the 24 that do play turn in good displays week in week out (wit the exception of the coolderry game where they were just outclassed)!teams in offaly need to toughen up and stop making excuses then offaly might make a significant impact in next years championship!

Obviously Brosna Gaels are way more impacted than any other club, but I'm pretty sure that they would come on a ton if they had more time to spend preparing for their hurling. Right now I'd say they just don't realise how much potential they have in that club and so having a great shot at reaching a quarter final is considered a great achievement. Of course it is a great achievement, but they could come on so much more given the opportunity.