Players opting out

[Bord na Mona man]

It is sad to hear that lads are leaving the hurling panel easily now.
Damien Murray a couple of weeks ago, now seemingly Shane O'Connor and Barry Teehan.
Are the Coolderry lads not happy with how things are going?

Unfortunately it is symptomatic of a county in decline. In Kilkenny, Charlie Carter leaves the panel and it is big news and warrants a book. As you go down the ladder, you get more and more of a county's best players not playing inter county.
When you talk to hurling people in lower tier counties their biggest headache is how common it is for good players not to want to play county hurling.

Morale has been in decline in Offaly hurling for nearly 10 years now and the way things stand I don't think there will be any quick improvement.

[azoffaly]

I'm getting more and more depressed with this every day.

As I mentioned on the other thread, there were seriously worrying signs on Sunday, and the sight of Shane O'Connor storming off down the tunnel was yet another one. I honestly can't see progress so far, given that in recent years we've done okay in certain league games, including our 'relatively' long unbeaten home record, and still flopped in the championship. This year I don't see any progress in the league, maybe even a bit of slippage if Clare beat us well, which I am afraid they will do.

I can only hope that Joe has a master plan that sees us peak for the championship, but the basic skills were that bad on Sunday, not to mention the appetite of some players, and the body language of nearly all of them, that I'm actually nervous of playing Laois in Portlaoise, not to mention looking ahead to the Cats.

Please God, I'm reading the situation wrong, and they are training heavily or something, and these panel defections will leave the remaining lads as the focussed, determined ones.

[Offalyhurling07]

I don't agree that these lads are leaving easily. I've hurled with and against Teehan and i am 100% confident he wouldn't just walk out over nothing. I haven't talked to him but will over the weekend. He was respected, at least by the older fellas, on the panel and he's decision would have considered them and his Coolderry teammates.

You could see Sunday the body language and i'd even go further and say lackadaisical presence of the lads on the pitch. There was no real determination in their game. And if what other people are saying is true in other threads about lads not training, sure thats a joke.

Joe needs to make the hard decisions and that includes the most obvious one, which everyone is avoiding to say! Offaly hurling is on a long road nowhere.

[green&white]

I think the three players involved all left for thre different reasons, not just a Coolderry thing.
Murray left because he was building a new house and fed up of county hurling. He's been at it nearly 8years now and wasnt enjoying his hurling. I remember Dylan Hayden walking away for similar reasons last year and a lot of people wishing him luck.
Teehan has suffered a lot of setbacks at county level and his confidence had hit rock bottom. He clearly wasnt in Joe's plans, and was never one to complain, so probably just figured enough was enough with travelling from Dublin to be no 27/28 on the panel.
O'Connor should have no complaints. Dont think he ever had the steely committment to hurl at intercounty. If he did he wouldnt be 2stone overweight! Think he was too busy lookin over his shoulder at Breeder, which is inexcusable! You have the jersey, keep it if ya want it bad enough!
Morale is low at the moment, and unfortunatley it breeds selfishness! Selfishness in players attitude and the way they play. Most players worry only about themselves and what they score, concede etc. Tends to discourage team-work, team-play and general back-up among the players.I think it then leads to players beginning to focus on their clubs, which becomes the only source of where they can win something.
we have a big problem in that the panel over the last 5 or 6years has seen such drastic changes, with nealry every year 5or 6 new faces given a try at this level. You dont see any other county doing this! And with so many changes we still dont see 30players plus on the panel come C'ship time. Players arent willing to train and dedicate their lives (and its a huge committment) in Offaly to be sitting around at no25-30 on the panel. Its different in KK, Tipp, etc. because you generally are involved with teams that have a buzz factor in the county. You're well known around the county, well looked after for jobs, free into niteclubs etc. We dont have that in Offaly but its usually substituted with begrudgery and abuse! Our teams dont attract big no's at matches unless they are in with a realistic chance of wining something.. with obvious exceptions..FAITHFUL COUNTY my arse! The crowds attending league fixtures at home, dont justify the need for O'Connor park (thats another debate!!).
Now a lot of people are discussing Joe at the moment, but i'm reserving judgement until the C'ship. It certainly hasnt been pretty to date but he didnt have a lot to work with. I still think we are very unproffessional compared to other teams, and its just the small things.. but unfortunately the small things mount up. I really think we need someone from a county thats winning (preferably KK) to come in and bring us to the next level, or at least Joe should go watch other counties and analyse what they do on match days etc.

[Lone Shark]

I don't know too much on this, but I think in Damien Murray's case a lot of people were drawing their own conclusions from a set of circumstances. Basically Shane Dooley was on the team, taking the frees, and because Murray chose to leave at that time some people chose to infer (without knowing any circumstances) that Damien was upset at not getting his job back, so to speak. Supporters may have been even more annoyed since many of them felt that it was a matter of time before Shane was relieved of free taking duties - as it happened - and many presumed that Murray would be back at that time.

A lot of presumptions basically. Ultimately I think all rationally minded people know the effort that is involved at playing intercounty GAA and they wouldn't begrudge anyone who leaves the scene due to personal circumstances. Maybe if we had more players walking away when they weren't enjoying it and leaving it to those who do, we wouldn't have a GPA bitching about the players not getting paid and we'd have a better set up all round.

[jimmyeatworld]

[quote="green&white"]Morale is low at the moment, and unfortunatley it breeds selfishness! Selfishness in players attitude and the way they play. Most players worry only about themselves and what they score, concede etc. Tends to discourage team-work, team-play and general back-up among the players.I think it then leads to players beginning to focus on their clubs, which becomes the only source of where they can win something.
we have a big problem in that the panel over the last 5 or 6years has seen such drastic changes, with nealry every year 5or 6 new faces given a try at this level.

I couldn't agree with you more Green and White. For a county the size of Offaly the chopping and changing of players every year is ridiculous!!
Some of the selection decisions made by the current management and worse still by John McIntyre have been a joke. Barry Teehan is a very committed lad and for him to see Kieran Flannery come on ahead of him against Limerick having only been in the panel a few weeks must have been very hard for Barry to take. The same can be said of John MCIntyres inclusion of Damian Murray in the Offaly team last year after Mcintyre famously took Offaly hurling by the scruff of the neck and dropped 13players by letter only to call most of them back in within a matter of months. This is shambolic management and has certainly contributed to where Offaly hurling finds itself now albeit not the sole reason. Selectors with current and previous management must take responsibility for this rubbish carry on aswell.
This style of management only serves to confuse, dishearten, lower confidence, increase selfishness and ultimately lower the value of pulling on the Offaly jersey.

I saw the waterford v KK game last night. John Dalton, Pj Delaney, Michael Rice, Richie Hogan - all lads who have done their fair share of siting on the bench started against Waterford and fitted in seemlessly to the team. It is obviously very clear in KK that if you put in the time and effort and show up well at training on enough of occasions you will eventually get your chance.

Contrast this to the message being sent to Offaly players.

[Offalyhurling07]

The problem is nobody seems to be enjoying it. The morale is at an all time low. Ask any of the guys in there a long time, even McIntyres time, more people will walk and rumour has the Birr lads are avoiding calls from Dooley.

BTW Damien Murray didn't get a walsh Cup start at all, the management team had there mind made up about him aswell never mind the Shane Dooley presumptions - sure Damien is the best free taker in the county.

[green&white]

For the record Damien definatley didnt leave beacuse of the free-taking situation.. and thats from the horses mouth!
Agree with LS maybe we would be better off with only people that really want it.. but how do ya make that distinction? (really not tryin to be smart!!) A test?
There is alot of pressure inflicted on players form everypone to get involved in the first place, and people think theres something wrong with ya if ya dont!
On the current panel Oakley, Franks, Carroll (previously Teehan and Murray) have been around for a lot of very tough times and fair play to them for sticking to it!
Oakley is currently in his 12th year and we are only seeing his best hurling over the last 2 or 3seasons.. I would like to see views expressed about him when he was ony around a wet week!
Franks is there since 2000, and only really got a starting place since 2004 on! Again took him a considerable time to really get consitent performances. Relies on speed, and agrressiveness at corner back, but is only as good as cover he has around him!
Carroll is there since 2002 and is only 24 (25 this yr i think), but you'd swear he was around for ages! Not consistent enough yet, but certainly hurls in a position that requires proper supply from those around him and doesnt have the physique to cope with the aimless hurlin we have in Offaly most of the time.
These 3 would die for Offaly hurling (as would many others) but unfortunatley we dont always see that! At the end of the day its a team game and its the 15(maybe even 30) that ensure success. Sometimes its easy to see Oakleys heart on his sleeve antics, but thats him exploiting his strengths (it took him 10yrs to do so properly). while we need more players willing to put there body on the lines, 15 Oakleys wouldnt win anythin (we dont have them anyway) but we need to work with what we have and get the best out of them!

[Bord na Mona man]

I think it is very unfortunate.
It's what keeps the strong counties in the strong position and keeps the others down.
In Kilkenny or Cork, there is a greater incentive for the best players to stay on board.
It becomes self-fulfilling.

[Bord na Mona man]

I think we also have two different reasons for poor performance by Offaly players.

Yes, I think there are players who take the jersey for granted, because they haven't had to fight hard for it.
Also though, I think when a player has lost confidence, it also looks like he isn't trying either.

I've done it myself on bad days. You hit a couple of wides and you are getting stick from all sides. The next time the ball comes in you don't show for it in the same way. You almost slow down to let your marker be on top of you so that you aren't expected to do anything with it, only lay it off.
You track back just be seen to be still going through the motions.
Maybe throw in a late tackle just to let on you're still battling away.

I suppose that's why lads like Ger Oakley have gotten plenty of stick from the "up for the beer" brigade over the years. When all else has gone wrong, he'd be still giving 110% effort. He'd be the only one willing to risk making mistakes when others are going through the motions and playing for themselves. When people start looking for scapegoats, there are some targets that are easier than others.

[Offalys Future]

Right heres my take on things.
Different mentality.

I have spoken about this on many occasions and now it becomes quiet evident again.
Before i get started i told ye when he was appointed that Joe Dooley was not capable of managing an intercounty team. While i have been impressed by some of his actions ultimately he has no experience and logic wont allow him to be capable enough for the job and thus successful. It just cant happen. He will be judged come championship.

With relation to the players here is my take on some of them.

Shane O Connor.
Jesus if there was ever an opportunity for a player this was the player.
He knew more than likely that Brian Mullins wouldnt be around untill after March 17th and we all know Brian Mullin attidude to Offaly hurling.
I watched him closely aganst Tipp and Galway and lets be honest here. He's not fit, flat on his feet, got blocked down 3 times against Galway. He has done nothing to improve himself over the last twelve months and he is still living off having a long puck out. How could he possibly sulk after last weekend is beyond me. He didnt bother his arse trying to become a better goal keeper. Yes he trained and probaly missed very little training sessions but in order to be a top intercounty keeper you need to go that extra bit further something he didnt do.

Barry Teehan
Barry teehan has been a regular on the Offaly team for the last 5/6 years and this year was the first time that questions were asked of him. He wasn't making the starting fifteen so instead of getting the head down and working hard to earn his place back he leaves the panel. I always had a bit of time for the lad but not anymore. If thats his attitude then let him off he aint worth a damn to Offaly with that mind set. Afraid of a challenge so walks away instead.

Damien Murray
He made his place last year and was exceptional at taking fress. Like i posted before he needed to go to a physiscal trainer at end of last year and say listen i aint strong enough for intercounty hurling - give me a programme and i am going to work my socks off to be the best i can. Did he do this - no he didnt. He was pushed aside against Tipperary and wasnt even strong enough to tackle. Following week he is dropped and cries off the panel.

Ciaran Slevin
Here you have a young player arguably the best forward in last years offaly championship and the best u-21 for Offaly last year. But when asked to go into the panel he declines. No interest. A mentality that he thinks he is too good for Offaly, too much of a shaper, too busy listening to what eegits are saying to him in pubs.

Dylan Hayden
Another with wrong mentality, a guy that lives off a reputation that is bestowed on him by drunking eegits in Birr. When the big questions were asked last Monday he wasnt able to answer. The reason was becasue he had to dig deep but nothing inside. No guts, no determination. Has he the ability yes he has but ability alone wont get him no-where.

Joe Brady
I have been critical of him on so many occasions but you have to admire him. He comes back for more. He was disappointed last year but he came back this year to give it a go. He not good enough but he's determined.

David Franks
Last year he was dropped for the first round of championship against Laois. Not league like some of above but championship. Did he cry off no he didnt, he knuckled down and made his place for Kilkenny and cleaned Eddie Brennan the same day. Different Mentality.

Teehan O'connor and Murray should take a long look at themselves. Instead of comparing themselves to the lads that have replaced them they shoulkd ask themselves the hard questions. Questions none of them will be able to answer.

[jimmyeatworld]

Agree with you OF to a point.

It is the manager and selectors who decide what criteria that have to be met to be selected.
In some counties e.g. Offaly - perhaps two weeks to a month of regular attendance at training and playing well is enough to be selcted and to hold your place on the teame.g. Damian Murray last year,
and in other counties e.g KK and Cork, players must attend training over a period of time, perform well in training and competitive matches, complete a gym program in their own time, avoid alcohol.
It is the management who set the criteria for playing on the team and players must respond to this.
If the managements criteria is a load of rubbish it is understandle for players to get browned off. Some will walk, others will stay, either way this cycle will ALWAYS result in bad players i.e. poorly prepared in relation to other players from the likes of KK who have put in a huge amount of work to make their team, and bad performances i.e. poor team spirit, determination, back bone and confidence that stems from constant and inconsistent chopping and changing players.

This is whats has happened with Offaly management for close on ten years now. There is countless examples of this.

[Offalyhurling07]

Think those statements are a bit hurler on the ditch offalys future. You have shown one thing - you havn't got a clue about the committment the lads put in. And as you admit Teehan has been on the panel 5-6 years, sure if he was that Blasé about his committment to the panel ul surely agree he would have gone before then as would Murray have. You can't just ASSUME these lads are not truly gutted to have to walk away from something that is essentially every hurlers ambition in the country.

[Offalys Future]

Why would Teeehan go before if he was making the team? he was challenged this year and instead of working at it he gave in, he quitted. so did Murray and now O'Connor.
Alot of this comes from bad management etc but alot comes from the player themselves.
Do you think Donal Og Cusack will use the excuse "its management fault that i am not in ideal condidtion" no he wont. it should be a cert from the start of year that players are in good condition and thats up to themselves at the end of the day. They have to work on the nights the team dont train. Read "last man standing" and Liam Dunnes autobiography and you will understand what it takes to be the best.
I know exactly what committment it takes, but i can guarantee you that Teehan, Connors and Murray did not fully commit. They didnt go that extra bit. That extra bit that is needed.
Now i'm not saying everyone else on the panel is doing tha bit extra coz if they were things would be alot better. But each player has to look at themselves and not judge against others.

[green&white]

Hold on a second there now Offalys Future!
Now teehan has put in some serious effort with the county, he has undergone 2knee operations and foot operation (dec just gone) in the last 3yrs and has responded unbelievably from each. He nailed down a regular spot under McNamara at corner back, even though wing back would be his favoured spot for Coolderry! Since then he has been tried at midfield last yr and had a very good league campaign before being replaced against KK very unfairly! Remember Cordial came on and was given the run around by Cha!! This yr after his op he was rushed back into the Walsh Cup because of some seriously inept perfromances by others during the first few practice games! since then he has never really got a look-in, and only got a try at WINGFORWRD against Waterford! I though he did ok against Laois when he came on, put a week later wasnt good enoigh even to figure against Limerick! If ya knew this guy at all, you would know he takes his hurlin very seriously and it wouldnt just be acase of walkin away because the going got tough! It couldnt get much tougher for him back in 2005 when taking off after 20mins against KK in Croke Park as Captain!!He didnt walk then! So dont talk about this guy as if ya knew him OF!
Murray as a matter of fact is liftin heavier weights (and more regular) weights than some of the other larger hurlers! Fact! Its not like you just put on bulk because you lift weights! (BTW he wasnt dropped the following week because he left on the Monday after the game for his own personal reasons!)
have to agree with Offaly Hurling07 you havent a clue what commitment these two individuals have given to Offaly hurling! They could have walked away a long time ago, when things were a lot worse for them individually!

For starters none of our boys are professional - they are amatuers.Its like I said earlier that the structures aren't in place! And I mean in a number of ways!
1) there is no supervised i.e. personal trainer type or individual programmes for the weights programmes like other counties. In offaly gym mebermeship runs until the county team is finished in the C'Ship. If your small like Murray and ya need to hit the gym, its on your back that you do.. no programmes or membership provided!! Wheres the long term planning or preparation of players there? ( By the way i think this should start at Minor level and all players at this level, should be provided with personalised weight training programmes to get core and fundamental techniques perfected at an early age!!)
2) our guys have full time jobs- nows I know ur gonna say so do all the other players but that aint neccesarily true! Tommy Walsh gave up work after the Leinster Final last yr because of an ordinary performance against Wexford- whon paid him I wonder? Tyrone and Armagh players always gave up work for August and September when they were on top spnosored by Club Tyrone etc.! Eoin Kelly, Sean Og, Gooch, Donaghy etc. have nothing jobs in the bank! Noel Hickey has Farm relief into milk his cows almost every evenin.. Ger Oakley cant get them in when they go to play Antrim, he has to drive up after the team!!
3) most top counties provide sponsored cars for any players travelling long distances! Not necesarily new one mind you! Even in Galway players are sponsored cars on top of their expenses! Our players started trainin on Nov28th but wont get paid expenses for those dates. Instead they'll get paid from around 20th Dec instead! Fact!! And at that they have to look for them!