www.uibhfhaili.com

Of the team Kerry team that started on Sunday, only five started last year (two Boyles, Mackessey, Keane and Nolan). And only five started the 2019 Joe McDonagh game (O'Halloran, two Boyles, Murphy and Collins). That's a massive turnover for a county with a small hurling pool.

Sur lookit wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 2:40 pm Missing up to 10?
So we'll take the win then and move on!!

That's a huge turnover. I would regard "missing" players as players who are injured or unavailable for a particular game. If they opted out of a panel , they are not "missing " . There are "gone".

I make it 6 changes, from Joe McDonagh Final starting team. However one of those 6 was on the bench and came on against Offaly so 5 changes really.
https://munster.gaa.ie/event/joe-mcdona ... -v-antrim/
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa ... 90743.html

private joker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 4:05 pm That's a huge turnover. I would regard "missing" players as players who are injured or unavailable for a particular game. If they opted out of a panel , they are not "missing " . There are "gone".

Important and accurate distinction. Fully agree.

kingscounty wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 12:32 am A great win and a great win last week, but I’d air on the side of caution before we get carried away, we only have to look at last seasons result. Carlow and Down need to be put to the sword but will be no push over.
It’s hard to analyse the game when one can’t attend it but it is encouraging that we seem to be creating and taking huge scores and no goals conceded today after conceding 3 last week is obviously something talked about at training during the week.
Anyway Carlow I think are next, big performance needed again from our lads.

Given what we've suffered through over a long stretch, I'd hope there is little chance of getting carried away. That said, it should be full throttle, no prisoners, etc, etc going forward.

Great starts are ... great and it would be unfair to ask for more from the first 2 matches, but the finish is what matters.

As you say, Carlow away next - Go git 'em boys!!!

Superb analysis of last Sunday’s game in The Kerryman newspaper, with four tabloid pages of coverage, as well as six pages on their footballers’ win over Galway.

Within the hurling coverage is an informative statistical analysis, an analysis of puckouts won, chances converted, wides, shots dropped short and frees conceded.

Offaly scored 30 times from 47 attempts, a 64% conversion, but it was 18 from 24 in the first half and 12 out of 23 in the second half.
Kerry scored 13 out of 25, 7 out of 15 in the first half followed by 6 out of 10 in the second.

Offaly won 18 of their 22 puckouts, including seven uncontested, 8 out of 12 in the first half, 10 out of 10 in the second.
Kerry won 19 out of 42 of their own puckouts, including 7 uncontested, 9 out of 22 in the first half and 10 out of 20 in the second.

So overall, Offaly won 41 out of 64, giving them 64% of the possession, while Kerry won 23 out of 64 for a 36% share. Offaly’s 47 scoring attempts and Kerry’s 25 correlates almost perfectly with this. In a nutshell, the possession stakes is where Offaly won it.

If there is a concern, it is that Offaly conceded 14 frees, while Kerry conceded 9. Now, something doesn’t sit right with this. The team in possession isn’t the team who does the fouling. So either Offaly foul the ball by overcarrying or getting caught in possession because somebody doesn’t make the correct supporting run (which isn’t helped by the current confusion over how the rules are interpreted), or Offaly’s tackling technique is just plain bad when they are not in possession.

It’s disappointing so see at least four Offaly social media influencers complain about modern hurling at the weekend. Offaly needs to change the way it plays its hurling. Such resistance to change does not bode well for Offaly’s hopes to change. And you’d hope Mick Fennelly and Johnny Kelly are left alone to coach the team as they see fit.

Down’s win over Carlow shows how competitive this division really is. We knew every game would be a league final, and Carlow is the third in a series of five such finals. Nothing has changed in that regard, though an Offaly win will almost certainly end Carlow’s promotion prospects, and they could have done without losing John Michael Nolan and Marty Kavanagh to hamstring injuries during the fourth quarter, and James Doyle to a straight red card shortly after half-time. Pressure on Carlow then, all the moreso gven they are at home..

In the last two weeks, Offaly have burned the opposition in the second quarter. Carlow will be ready for the onslaught in the period following the first half water break and Offaly will need to start better and to be more clinical after half-time.

Plain of the Herbs wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:13 pm It’s disappointing so see at least four Offaly social media influencers complain about modern hurling at the weekend. Offaly needs to change the way it plays its hurling. Such resistance to change does not bode well for Offaly’s hopes to change. And you’d hope Mick Fennelly and Johnny Kelly are left alone to coach the team as they see fit.

POTH can you not see that the game of hurling has been destroyed or are you in denial?
The absolute rubbish served up by Limerick, Galway, Cork and Tipp at the weekend has actually opened many peoples eyes to what has happened.
Once the best game in the world has been reduced to a pathetic sight.
2 things have led to it's downfall. Firstly, the players now resemble wrestlers and their body does most of the work......having a hurl in their hand is kind of incidental to the whole thing.This is leading to 40 frees in games and robots putting them over from 100 yards.
Secondly, the clipboard brigade have hijacked the game.
Possessions
Turnovers
Spilled balls
Rucks won and lost
Shot percentages
Kilometers covered
Blah blah blah.

Every bloody team now is consumed with stats, stats and more stats.
Spontaneity is gone
The "what might happen next?" element is gone as everything is based off a set play.
Two men going toe to toe is all but gone.
Catching the ball gone.
Goalmouth action gone.

I'd rather Offaly never got out of the Christy Ring if they are going to turn into one of them teams.
Is there a more boring sport out there now?

I've said it before.....if lads are into stats then check out the US sports they are all about that.
It saddens me that I'll never see two teams line up man to man and play a game of hurling and let the best team win.
What I'm watching now is more a hybrid of rugby and lacrosse and I'm not much of a fan of either of these.
It's all very sad.

every thing you state above I concur with 100%..the game is destroyed by all the things you mention..the problem is people will say "thats the way the game is gone now" and I suppose you have to say that is the case...no lesser than Brian Cody sprang to my mind when you were listing out about the turnovers, losing possession and all that all mullarkey above...Brian Cody said one time you can prepare all you want for a match, but when you go out on the field and it is 15 V 15 and to win the match your team has to win the majority of the man to man battles..and thats a very simple logic..to bolster his view, I have never ever heard Brian Cody metion posession stats, turnovers, rucks or any of this rugby speak, the interviewer might say it to him in question format but he never menitions such things in his reply..its always "they wanted the game abit more than us" or "our lads were very hurt by the defeat last year to such and such and were out to right that today"...and thats how hurling was and should be played...its over constructed now...and I think the lack of crowds have really shone a light on how bland most games are now...great points above..not all will agree...

In fairness to Offaly, we stayed loyal to a lot of the old ways while other counties evolved.
I doubt many other counties will be copying our approach though...

I don’t understand people who are resistant to change. And those people usually end up getting left behind in society. Tough. There’s a whole world on the move.

And so cocks of hay become square bales and eventually round bales. Turf now cut by a machine. Slatted sheds, combine harvesters. Where will it all end? It won’t end, the world keeps evolving.

Why then should hurling be kept in the 20th century? It shouldn’t. It should evolve and develop. It always has. And hopefully always will. From Mackey’s solo running, Wexford’s fetching, Galway’s running, Cork’s possession. Big wheel keep on turning.

The days of ‘you have this ball, I’ll have the next one’, well, that’s just daft. A Junior team wouldn’t to that. Try giving the ball away to the opposition and see how you get on. You won’t get far. Teams are going to do whatever they can to gain a competitive advantage over the other. At a very basic level that will involve video analysis and it goes from there. When you look at old hurling now, the balls that were aimlessly given away all because no one thought of the consequences. Though on reflection there often weren’t consequences because the opposition gave it back again five seconds later.

As for Tipperary and Cork. It was a hard watch, but not for the reasons the herd are wailing about. Firstly, I admire Tipperary’s discipline. They kept to the plan, they kept their forwards well back, didn’t allow Cork to create space out the field.

It would have been easy have a rush of blood, push up and leave space for Cork to rip them up, pop the passes and break the lines on their way up the field. And so Cork were discommoded and left to flounder in their own half of the field. Collins could hardly be expected t puck out to where his side were outnumbered. I suspect Collins mightn’t be a brilliant distributor, but it’s the first time I’ve really seen him so maybe I’m being harsh. And Cork will go away and work on that and will vary the plan and improve it.

For those who claim Cork’s second goal came from a long puckout. What actually happened was that Tipperary won the puckout cleanly, but the Tipp man turned it over to Cork two seconds later.

Those who oppose such counter-planning might care to recall 2000’s All-Ireland semi-final. In Munster, Cork had made hay by dragging the opposition centre half-back out of position, making huge space in the midfield ‘diamond’ for runners to collect Cusack’s puckout. Cork did this with the first puckout. Second puckout, Gary Hanniffy dropped back to that key ‘diamond area’, filling the space, and Cusack pinged the unmarked Corcoran while us great unwashed roared at Hanniffy. Third puckout, Hanniffy again dropped back, while John Ryan dropped back on Corcoran, leaving Cusack to puck out to O’Sullivan. If Offaly had allowed Cork to puck out on their terms, let’s just say it wouldn’t have been pretty.

And there was a time when lads who claimed the earth was spherical were put to death.

So true.

And that Offaly 'way' didn't create scores. Offaly won an All-Ireland with 2-12, another with 2-11, had 1-11 on the board after 65 minutes of another. Good God Almighty! That wouldn't get you to half-time nowadays.

Bord na Mona man wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:02 pm In fairness to Offaly, we stayed loyal to a lot of the old ways while other counties evolved.
I doubt many other counties will be copying our approach though...

Plain of the Herbs wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:19 pm So true.

And that Offaly 'way' didn't create scores. Offaly won an All-Ireland with 2-12, another with 2-11, had 1-11 on the board after 65 minutes of another. Good God Almighty! That wouldn't get you to half-time nowadays.

Bord na Mona man wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:02 pm In fairness to Offaly, we stayed loyal to a lot of the old ways while other counties evolved.
I doubt many other counties will be copying our approach though...

They may have been low scoring but at least it was entertaining, , Brian Whelehan moving from the back line to the forward line to win an all Ireland.
A John Troy master class with hurl and ball, to name a few. But hey let’s score 30 points most of which comes from a free taker or from a player with acres of room and no chance of getting hooked or blocked.
The game is destroyed, hand and arm tackles, players munching on protein and supplements. Sin bin’s, an advantage rule that’s an absolute farce, wait what about adding a mark to the game like football now that would work!!!!

And that's it in a nutshell. Offaly want to be entertained. 31 other counties want to be successful.

You probably refer to 1998's All-Ireland final. Look at the space afforded to Brian Whelahan by the Kilkenny defence that day. By 21st century standards it's astonishing. Somewhere in Croke Park that day was a former Kilkenny All-Ireland winning full-back thinking something like: that'll never happen if I get them.

There's that story in Charlie Carter's book when CC complained training wasn't any craic and the manager growled (I'm paraphrasing) in reply: if you want entertainment, go to the pub.

kingscounty wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:24 am

Plain of the Herbs wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:19 pm So true.

And that Offaly 'way' didn't create scores. Offaly won an All-Ireland with 2-12, another with 2-11, had 1-11 on the board after 65 minutes of another. Good God Almighty! That wouldn't get you to half-time nowadays.

Bord na Mona man wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:02 pm In fairness to Offaly, we stayed loyal to a lot of the old ways while other counties evolved.
I doubt many other counties will be copying our approach though...

They may have been low scoring but at least it was entertaining, , Brian Whelehan moving from the back line to the forward line to win an all Ireland.
A John Troy master class with hurl and ball, to name a few. But hey let’s score 30 points most of which comes from a free taker or from a player with acres of room and no chance of getting hooked or blocked.
The game is destroyed, hand and arm tackles, players munching on protein and supplements. Sin bin’s, an advantage rule that’s an absolute farce, wait what about adding a mark to the game like football now that would work!!!!

kingscounty wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:24 am But hey let’s score 30 points most of which comes from a free taker or from a player with acres of room and no chance of getting hooked or blocked.

Jaysus, a fella using his head and finding space instead of standing beside his marker!

Obviously the preferred option is 12 proper points set up by first time pulls, whips, overhead strikes and winning a run of 50-50 battles.

Anyway, whether we like it or not, the game has evolved to where it's at now. I would have my doubts that the sort of freestyle hurling (entertaining that it may have been) of days gone by is going to be the blueprint for future success.

Ah look of course the game has moved on I probably am hanging on to past glories or games. A lot more rucks and physical body tackles these days when the hurl should be your main weapon of choice to take the ball off an opponent with a flick, hook or block.
Problem is when every team plays similar tactics you end up with poor games, yes the game has moved on but I’d prefer an in between that probably doesn’t exist.