Brolly and his rant

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Was away at the weekend and only saw this now! What a rant!

2 things though, (the cynic coming out!) is he driving his own image/agenda/profile, or has he a point?
Truth is somewhere inbetween I feel.
Rules, (contrary to what a lot of GAA people who spend too much time watching soccer actually believe) , Cavanagh committed a personal foul, (no such thing as the professional foul in GAA rule book), which is punishable by yellow. End of.
Of course it was cynical, and not nice to see, but at the end of the day , exactly what you would expect a player to do, had Monaghan goaled at that stage, there is a good chance they would have been out of the championship.

So what do you do, well , the black card from next season, will mean a sub coming in. Hardly going to stop the principle of (if he's in on goal , pull him down?)
If a player had to miss the next match for a black card , it may make him more likely to think twice.

However, my point is on Brolly, he was way over the top in my opinion, and in fairness to Tyrone, they have the science/rules/limits of Gaelic football off to a tee.
1) The points they kicked in the first half from outside what could be described as the danger zone were savage
2) They have excellent freetakers from both sides of the pitch
3) Cavanagh is an awesome footballer, but like the rest of the tyrone lads he plays to the limit of the law and could have been sent of for persistant fouling in the last 2 games, but instead has walked away with the win and MOTM awards!!
4) Mickey Harte, clearly uses his time wisely with these guys, they come in to train fit and ready, and they must spend a huge amount of time on coaching the plays/running of the ball/closing the opposition/, in short they manage the game when they have the ball, and when they dont have the ball!!

So how come he cant see that , and went so crazy? Was it because the fairytale of Monaghan had just come to an end so soon after winning the Ulster title.
His attack on Cavanagh as a man was scandalous and should not have been made. He spoke about the hard Tyrone men of the past, and was lambasting these guys, who have won more than any Ulster team in the past 40 years???
Logic never entered the fray.
I normally dont bother watching the analysis anymore, as I feel its lazy, with no real consideration of the real tactics going on on the game. Tyrones off the ball running was fantastic, Monaghan were too negative and laboured, and naive. Thats why they lost.

[Bord na Mona man]

Whatever about Brolly's rant (which was ott), the rules could be tuned up.

Remember in the 2006 Leinster final something similar happened. Cathal Daly had ghosted in unmarked and was about to run onto a pass in front of the Dublin goal. Realising the danger, Stephen Cluxton came steaming out of his goal took Daly out of it with a lunging boot just outside the square. Conceding the free (which was missed) and taking the harmless yellow card.

What should have been a clear goal opportunity ended up with nothing because of cynical foul play. And although Daly was a back, I'd have fancied him to rattle the net had he not been taken out.

In these sort of scenarios, referees should still be able to award the penalty, even if the incident occurred outside the square.

I think Cavanagh's sneaky piece of play when he faked being pulled down and got his marker booked in the first half was a worse offence btw. This sort of faking will get worse when the black card gets introduced and there is a bigger reward for diving and cheating.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

But surely the point is that.... that the punishment doesnt fit the crime?
So what Brolly said about Cavanagh is ok so? Monaghan engaged in plenty of cynicism themselves last Saturday, and played as much a part in the whole thing as Tyrone.

Off course the rules need to be changed, that goes without saying, but it is disgraceful that comments like that about a player are allowed on air.

What Cavanagh did in no way compares to what Cluxton did by the way. Cluxtons was a reckless dangerous tackle that could have broken a leg, and falls into the same category as Tadghe Kenellys hit on Nicholas Murphy, and merited a red for dangerous play. Cavanagh executed a perfect pull down which would not cause serious injury, and merits a yellow, full stop!

At the moment the goalscoring opportunity is irrelevant, and is not taken into account by the referee.

[ryot]

Bord na Mona man

Have to agree with you that the sneaky act in the first half was the worst of those 2 fouls. It resulted in the opponent getting sent off when he picked up a second yellow later on. Also, at that point, Monaghan were well on top but that free ( which was scored) was followed by 2 points by Cavanagh as te conned Monaghan player stood off.

Of course his sneaky act was not as bad as the sneak punch by Conor Gormley. As in a number of games I saw Tyrone play Gormley got in his punch and as usual escaped scott free. Tyrone are expert at these things ( Donegal copied and possibly got even better at it) so hopefully Mayo will do a similar job on them as they did on their apprentices

[first_touch]

I totally agree, Brolly's outburst was way over the top. Being from Derry have would have a grudge against Tyrone so this was a perfect opportunity to have a go at them. Added to that, his inability to not be the centre of attention! His personal attack on Sean Kavanagh was disgraceful and RTE should issue a retraction at the next opportunity. That panel (for the major live games) is a complete joke and needs to be overhauled.

Of course the rules need to be changed. The black card may be a deterrent as players will, in the main, not want to be sent off. Having said that, if an incident takes place late on in a game it could benefit a team to get a black card as it would mean replacing a probably tiring player with an additional fresh substitute. (I'm presuming teams, as well as black card replacements, will still be able to bring on 5 subs as currently is the case? Or are black card replacements counted within the max. of 5 subs?).

As already mentioned on this thread another rule change that should be considered is the awarding of a penalty for illegally denying a player from taking a goalscoring opportunity, whether the foul takes place in the square or not.

Such changes should help to alleviate cynical play, not to mention cynical rants!

[Kevin]

This is beginning to look more like a 3 Ring Circus

Another agenda forwarded here (taken from Hogan Stand):

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=198239

Walsh wants 'rugby tackle' legalised
07 August 2013

Sean Walsh, Chairman, Munster Council. INPHOFormer Kerry and Munster chairman Sean Walsh has called for the 'rugby tackle' to be permitted in Gaelic football.

Walsh's call comes after Tyrone's Sean Cavanagh was pilloried by TV pundit Joe Brolly for taking down Monaghan's Conor McManus as he bore down on goal during last Saturday's All-Ireland SFC quarter-final at Croke Park.

Speaking to the Irish Examiner, Walsh - who has long been in favour of introducing the Aussie Rules-style challenge to Gaelic football - said: "What I found in my two years as (tour) manager of the International Rules team was the tackle was tidied up. It stopped players bringing the ball into the tackle because they knew they would lose it if they didn't use it.

"It opened up the play completely and the ball moved faster. In training, players adapted to it and got into the habit of using the ball instead of holding onto it for long periods.

"That sort of tackle would increase the amount of kicking and reduce solo runs because players don't want to be caught and either lose the play or concede a free." - See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.a ... ANhpc.dpuf

[Lone Shark]

I'm genuinely torn by this, firstly because it's hard to blame a man for doing what is an entirely rational thing, but secondly because foul play should not be the logical course of action at any time.

I will say this though - I wonder would Seán Cavanagh be as stoic if Mayo decided that Tyrone couldn't win without him, so they lined out with a club player marking him who took him out of the game in the first minute with a hit that broke a bone on him. The player would happily accept the sanction - a red card - and Mayo would be just "doing what it takes to win".

The point was made to me that it would be premeditated and thus so much worse, but I'm not sure I buy into that logic too much. The crime is the crime, regardless of how much thought was put into it.

[Daleamar]

Bord na Mona man
Of course his sneaky act was not as bad as the sneak punch by Conor Gormley. As in a number of games I saw Tyrone play Gormley got in his punch and as usual escaped scott free. Tyrone are expert at these things ( Donegal copied and possibly got even better at it) so hopefully Mayo will do a similar job on them as they did on their apprentices

Personally I am delighted Gormley got away with it. Dessie Moan (how ironic) was conning referees the whole Donegal and the first half of the Tyrone match. Then he was up whinging to the referee and got himself a few skelps..... He didnt feel the weight of it in the second half.... Personally, I think Moan deserved everthing he got, well able to play sly but unable to take it.

I know thats not the point of this thread but ye, personally targeting Cavanagh and Tyrone is wrong. I hauled down a lad in an u12 match and indeed a minor match in the past on the way to county finals. I do not reget it one bit....

[kinnittyman]

Just to pull you up on one point there ahlethimoutwithit. You say Sean Cavanagh could have been sent off for persistent fouling in his last two games??

Here's his official stats from the Monaghan game:

Ball Contacts: 41
Frees Won: 4
Successful Passes: 24
Unsuccessful Passes: 2
Shots: 9
Scores: 0-05
Fouls Conceded: 1


I'm no expert on Gaelic Football but if persistent fouling in a game is conceding ONE free I'd be worried about the game as a whole.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Well ok, could have been sent off against Meath then. But was sure he had committed a few fouls before he hauled down McManus, so fair play Kinnittyman, I stand corrected.
Delamar, dead right, Dessie Mone was at it all the game against Tyrone, was asking for a slap.