Where did it all go wrong

[TheManFromFerbane]

€40 for a ticket to a game, €60 for the final if I remember correctly. Players getting "paid" to play and now Kerry, the team I would hold up as the torch bearers of the game, have started diving to get players sent off.

Where did it all go wrong? When did we turn into..............soccer.

[Tar Man]

And don't forget the Foreign Imports - Tyrone team being taken over by Georgians!!!!!!

[Bord na Mona man]

Diving has slowly been creeping for a few years now. Martin Lynch and his Kildare colleagues the obvious culprits. Tyrone have done a fair bit too in recent years.
Even Pat Spillane himself admitting to going down easily in order to get his marker punished back in the day. It needs to be stamped out before it becomes part of the game.

Ticket prices did rise sharply a couple of years ago and thankfully stopped increasing, but overall ticket price inflation hasn't been that bad over the last few years.
A stand ticket for the 2000 All Ireland final was £32.
In euro that's €40.64. If you take it inflation was running at perhaps 4% a year for the last 8 years then the ticket price is worth €55 in today's money.

With the downturn in the economy, prices will hopefully stay static.
The upside of the downturn is that it will take the momentum away from the "pay for play" element running the GPA.

[manfromdelmonte]

Dessie and boys are still looking for money

the level of playacting is getting ridiculous. I have watched very few games this year because of it.

[Lone Shark]

Attendance costs - I have no problem with. As long as the GAA keeps making it cheap for the stalwart ould lad to go in and watch the NFL or his club play, I'm quite happy for them to charge whatever they like for the big days out. The sunshine brigade should be bankrolling the association where possible, not the same crowd who are keeping everything going as it is. For the diehard supporter/club member, you don't care about paying the big money for the big day because it means something. It means something because of everything you've put in up to that point.

I don't buy into the "it's an expensive day out" logic because (1) everything is an expensive day out these days. Plus it's not the GAA's fault that pub grub/trains/parking/petrol/pints are all so dear, and (2) because kids are either old enough to work themselves part time, or else they don't understand the significance of what's happening. Nine and ten year olds want to see their heroes play, if it's an NFL game in O'Connor Park or a big day out in Croker they don't care. Either way they wear the jersey, get high on crisps and fanta and get to marvel at Niall Mac or whoever. Daddy likes to claim that the kids would hate to miss out on the big day, but that's only because Mammy won't let him go if he doesn't bring them, and he doesn't want to miss out himself. That's fair enough, but again it's not the GAA's problem.

The summers in the late nineties were such that by the time I saved for college, Offaly matches were all I could afford - with no drinking. Were they worth it? Hell yeah. If a match is not going to be a capacity crowd, then by all means have kids in free until it's full, but people giving out about the price of tickets for All Ireland semis and finals - sorry, but that's along the same lines to me as "This Ferrari is the wrong colour" or "I'm going out with Angelina Jolie, but I wish she knew more about hurling".



Obviously enough, the diving is another matter. However it's rooted in two issues - one is that no matter how hard you try, refs can never tell if pain is genuine or not, while secondly, the tackle is not defined. It all goes back to the same thing - the rule book. It needs clarity, it's needs definition, and it needs every loophole to be plugged. If O'Mahony thought for a second that he could have missed out on an All Ireland final by way of what he did, would he have done it? Would he feck.

The fact that players think it's worthwhile is a different matter. It's a product of the win-at-all-costs system. Everywhere in the GAA this spirit is being abused. On another thread we have certain posters who would think it okay to pay €100k under the table to a big name manager if we could get him - is that what we set about creating in Hayes Hotel 124 years ago? Mick O'Dwyer brought diving to a fine art, yet nobody in the media pulls him up on this or any of his other shady goings on.

the level of playacting is getting ridiculous. I have watched very few games this year because of it.

Funny that you mention it though, I'm less and less interested in games on TV this year myself. Obviously you'll have days when you're involved yourself and you'll have days when there's an Offaly match or a club match on that you'd prefer and that's fair enough, but if I was told now that I couldn't watch any of the remaining Gaelic Football matches this year, I really think that I'd get over it pretty quickly. I'd head to O'Connor Park twice this weekend and be very happy with my lot.

[manfromdelmonte]

Yeah

you'd go to a local game and people would say its horrid shite or very bad standard

but what are they comparing it to??? the stuff on tv?

I'd just like the real loyal GAA fans rewarded for their support in the league and local games.

Its why i advocated a membership card (with barcode) that can be swiped at all games to show you attended. county boards keep a database of this info. (why not, every other sporting org in the world does it). When you go looking for tickets later in the year for the big occasion, tickets are offered to the loyal patrons first. Would ensure genuine GAA people have a chance to get tickets. mé cupla.

[Lone Shark]

Its why i advocated a membership card (with barcode) that can be swiped at all games to show you attended. county boards keep a database of this info. (why not, every other sporting org in the world does it). When you go looking for tickets later in the year for the big occasion, tickets are offered to the loyal patrons first. Would ensure genuine GAA people have a chance to get tickets. mé cupla.

Two ways of looking at this though. Who's more deserving - the guy you describe above who has been at every game since the windswept O'Byrne/Walsh Cup at the start of the year, or the guy who hasn't gone to county games because he's too busy training teams and selling lotto tickets and all the other little bits that keep the local junior club going? In theory those (the club guys) are the guys who get the tickets now. I say in theory because obviously there are plenty of cases whereby committee members abuse the tickets thing for their own relatives but generally in my experience it's been fairly done.

In an ideal world both could go and we wouldn't need all the jolly up guys who end up there on corporate shindigs and miss half the game because they're in having a pint, but on the other hand these guys pay a much bigger portion of the cost and losing that is a cost too.

It's an issue that I have real sympathy for the GAA on - it's really hard keep everyone happy and there are a lot of things to take into account.

[DD]

Two ways of looking at this though. Who's more deserving - the guy you describe above who has been at every game since the windswept O'Byrne/Walsh Cup at the start of the year, or the guy who hasn't gone to county games because he's too busy training teams and selling lotto tickets and all the other little bits that keep the local junior club going? In theory those (the club guys) are the guys who get the tickets now. .

The "more deserving" arguement is flawed because in most cases it is totally out of the individuals hands whether or not they'll get tickets for the big games.
At least in a system whereby loyal supporters are rewarded for all year round attendance, it would (or should) be possible to manage and control it.
In any case if the qualifying requirement was say for example >80% attendance of all games (League, O'Byrne, Walsh cup etc) the numbers involved would not be huge even for the well supported counties.

[the bare biffo]

while secondly, the tackle is not defined. It all goes back to the same thing - the rule book. It needs clarity, it's needs definition, and it needs every loophole to be plugged. If O'Mahony thought for a second that he could have missed out on an All Ireland final by way of what he did, would he have done it? Would he feck.

The fact that players think it's worthwhile is a different matter. It's a product of the win-at-all-costs system. Everywhere in the GAA this spirit is being abused. On another thread we have certain posters who would think it okay to pay €100k under the table to a big name manager if we could get him - is that what we set about creating in Hayes Hotel 124 years ago? Mick O'Dwyer brought diving to a fine art, yet nobody in the media pulls him up on this or any of his other shady goings on.

Firstly the Tackle, a bug bear of mine, I believe is very clearly defined in the rule book. There is one tackle allowed on the player, shoulder to shoulder with at least one foot on the ground. Thats it. All other tackles can only be directed at the ball. So in reality once you place a hand on any part of another player, accidental or otherwise it is a foul. Of course the rules as they are clearly defined have never and will never be properly applied by referees.
So in a contrary sort of way I suppose I am agreeing with what I think is your basic point. The tackle is clearly defined but realistically is unenforceable.

Personally I would prefer a rugby/aussie rules type tackle between shoulder and knees be allowed and it would do away with the hateful pulling and dragging that goes on. It might also do away with the need for teams to employ blanket defences because at the moment you need to put 3 or 4 men around the man in possession to force him to cough up the ball. And it would do away with diving since players could be legitimately put to ground.

With regard to what Aidan O'Mahoney was at, there should be a rule concerning unsportsmanlike behaviour which can be punishable on foot of video evidence. That carry on is sickening. I spent years trying to copy what Matt Connor did on a football field, what do you say to an 11 year old who tries to copy what he sees today. And what about the great GPA. Is O'Mahoney a member, are they happy that this is how their elite athletes are being porteayed. Any comment. Hardly.

As for Hayes Hotel in 1884, that was a long time ago. The world has evolved and so has tha GAA. The principles of capitalism pervade every aspect of our lives and are squeezing the testicles of voluntarism and social equity. The GAA hierarchy have happily led the way in the rush to the altar of professionalism. They empbrace capitalist principles with vigour, nowhere more clearly than in their vain pursuit of an amalgamation with professional australian rules football. What does this offer the GAA. The honour of representing your country in a makey uppy game that doesnt really exist. And bestowed, in the main, upon those who are already well laden with genuine GAA honours. The GAA authorities know full well about paid managers but what do they do about it. Nothing because it does not suit them. So a county like Offaly has a choice to make join the race or stick to the founding fathers principles and most likely never see Croke Park in September again. Personally I would prefer the latter, I would like the county board to follow Leitrims example in regard to the speed with which they acted, but not with regard to the allocation of scarce capital resources. There are more needs pockets that require lining.