Birr vs. that KK crowd

[black and red exile]

Oh and before I forget, Offalys future you seem to relish getting under everyones skin on this site. I am sick to death reading your [ im better than everybody else ] bullshit week after week and obviously looking for reactions from the people you insult, you constantly shoot down other opinions that you don't agree with, which to be quite honest is wearing very thin. PLEASE GO AWAY.

[Offalys Future]

This is a forum to give your opinion i give mine and i back it up with facts figures and common sense.
Its very easy for lads to come online write a few lines without explaining and then go away.

The truth hurts i guess.

[Lone Shark]

I'll be the first to admit that I called this one wrong - I really saw nothing from Birr so far this year to suggest that they had a performance like that in them, but as was noted by the Bare Biffo above, sometimes it's nice to be wrong. It was real old school stuff, giving no space and tackling constantly while maintaining discipline and not fouling.

Other points I'd make, in no particular order.....

(1) It's nonsense to suggest that Birr haven't a hope of winning this. They'll find it very tough next time out against Ballyboden, as they will against Dunloy if they make it that far, but even so you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would genuinely believe that Bir won't make it that far now. As for a final against Portumna, (assuming Portumna make it that far - Birr would be favourites against either Loughmore or Tulla), yeah, they'd be hard pressed to match them, but in a one off game of course they'd have every chance - they'd probably be around 2/1 in that match. Hardly no-hopers.

(2) Going through the players, obviously Simon, Sid and Niall Claffey all hurled well but realistically none of those are really going to be intercounty players next year. In that regard, Michael Verney added to his growing reputation for me and Paul Cleary at centre back really made me sit up and take notice. Held his position well, was excellent under the dropping ball and generally dominated the position. Obviously if Henry was his opposite number it might have been a different story , but still it'll be interesting to see how he gets on there for the rest of this campaign. I'd have no worries about Brendan O'Meara as Offaly fullback, and this would free up Cleary to play 6. Barry Whelahan did as Barry Whelahan does so well, but I'm not sure if his ground hurling style really has a place in a modern intercounty midfield. Dylan Hayden and the Hanniffys will certainly be intercounty players next year (if they want to).

(3) I know Wadkins had a hard time on TJ Reid, but he still looked to me like a player that is coming on well - he's not senior standard yet by any stretch of the imagination, but he'll certainly be there or thereabouts for the under 21s this year and we can see from there. Some of his blocking techniques were top drawer, though he does need to assert himself under the high ball a lot more if he's to make it as a half back.

(4) I wouldn't lay too much blame for the Shamrocks goal at the feet of Mullins. It was just unlucky from what I could tell, and in general I thought he did well.

(5) OF, you can't make a sweeping statement like "....a poor Kilkenny championship. While the media made a big deal of this achievement few looked at the standard of hurling which was very poor like it is in most counties at present." I know you tend to more comfortable giving criticism than praise as a rule, but it's ridiculous to say that the standard is poor everywhere. The standard is what it is - the standard. You say that Ballyhale were poor since they weren't able to cope without the two lads, but I'd say that if you took Eugene Cloonan and Joe Rabbitte out of the Athenry team you say was a great side (and Cloonan even at his peak was no Henry) there's no way they'd have won a big game like this either. The fact remains that in Kilkenny this year Ballyhale were able to beat the Village who were All Ireland champions a few years ago, along with everyone else that was put in front of them.

Just out of curiosity - where do you consider the standard at the moment to be decent, if not Kilkenny?

(6) I'm inclined to agree on the home advantage thing. I'm not saying it's irrelevant, but unless it's a huge trek across the country, it's worth a few points at best.

[Offalys Future]

(5) OF, you can't make a sweeping statement like "....a poor Kilkenny championship. While the media made a big deal of this achievement few looked at the standard of hurling which was very poor like it is in most counties at present."

There is a massive problem in the GAA at moment regarding skill levels and the quality of club hurling. The topic is for another day.

I know you tend to more comfortable giving criticism than praise as a rule, but it's ridiculous to say that the standard is poor everywhere. The standard is what it is - the standard.

I criticise when i feel there is a need and i praise when it is duly deserved.
Just remember i did say last week Birr would win this game.
Yes the standard is the standard - and the standard is poor.

You say that Ballyhale were poor since they weren't able to cope without the two lads, but I'd say that if you took Eugene Cloonan and Joe Rabbitte out of the Athenry team you say was a great side (and Cloonan even at his peak was no Henry) there's no way they'd have won a big game like this either.

If's and but's Lone shark, they didnt get injured and Athenry won their All-Irelands they are a great side.

Just out of curiosity - where do you consider the standard at the moment to be decent, if not Kilkenny?

I have been to games in Kilkenny/Galway/Tipperary/Laois/Offaly and watched Wexford/Cork/Waterford club games on telly and apart from the provincial championship it is very hard to find good games.
Cork county final was 0-06 to 0-04 at half time. Loughmore are in a Munster Club Final, Portumna laughed their way through Galway, Shamrocks without two best players hammered St Martins. A poor Birr side could win the Leinster Club Championship.
The list goes on and on.

As for Birr vs Ballyboden
This is going to be so hard to call, Ballyboden seem to be decent side, but how good are they really? They beat Camrooss by a point and won the Dub championship for first time in ages. I see the media are blowing them up already. Unbelieveable. I wont call it until next week at present if i was forced to now i would say Birr by at least 6 points.

[Bord na Mona man]

I have been to games in Kilkenny/Galway/Tipperary/Laois/Offaly and watched Wexford/Cork/Waterford club games on telly and apart from the provincial championship it is very hard to find good games.
Cork county final was 0-06 to 0-04 at half time. Loughmore are in a Munster Club Final, Portumna laughed their way through Galway, Shamrocks without two best players hammered St Martins. A poor Birr side could win the Leinster Club Championship.
The list goes on and on.

This analysis renders your assessment of the Kilkenny championship meaningless so.
Reading between the lines, practically all county championships appear to have been various levels of awfulness.
God only knows what you expect the standard to be, but I'm sure its unrealistic.
Given your previous outlook on matters, I should have realised your assessments would amount to varying degrees of negative.

[Doon Massive]

Offalys Future is in fact Johnny Giles, you heard it here first.

There are no great teams anymore, the standard is rubbish...........its not like the good old days........jumpers for goalposts (bailer twine for crossbars)
Marvelous.

[Over The Black Spot]

Offalys Future is in fact Johnny Giles, you heard it here first.

There are no great teams anymore, the standard is rubbish...........its not like the good old days........jumpers for goalposts (bailer twine for crossbars)
Marvelous.

Newsflash, the games of old weren't all that great. I've watched the '84 & '91 All-Irelands recently on TG4 & the standard of hurling was deplorable. Look at any of the clips regularly shown on sports programmes from the '60s & '70s & try to claim that the hurling was better than today & you're off your head. Yes, it was tougher but don't confuse that for good hurling.

I'm guessing that OF is in fact a hurler of this era or works with some of them & believes their bullsh*t as I work with a few fellas who go on the very same way as him, lamenting bygone days when hurling was brilliant & they come in every Monday during the Summer complaining about having to leave a club game early it was so bad & then fill us with tales of the great hurling in their day.

Take off the blinkers OF, hurling is as good as ever nowadays. Just because Offaly are currently not at the top table, people around these parts moan about the poor standard of hurling. They do the same in Tipp, Clare & Galway and the common denominator is that all the counties are stuggling to regain former glory & are using the current day players as an easy scapegoat.

[Offalys Future]

Offalys Future is in fact Johnny Giles, you heard it here first.

There are no great teams anymore, the standard is rubbish...........its not like the good old days........jumpers for goalposts (bailer twine for crossbars)
Marvelous.

Newsflash, the games of old weren't all that great. I've watched the '84 & '91 All-Irelands recently on TG4 & the standard of hurling was deplorable. Look at any of the clips regularly shown on sports programmes from the '60s & '70s & try to claim that the hurling was better than today & you're off your head. Yes, it was tougher but don't confuse that for good hurling.

I'm guessing that OF is in fact a hurler of this era or works with some of them & believes their bullsh*t as I work with a few fellas who go on the very same way as him, lamenting bygone days when hurling was brilliant & they come in every Monday during the Summer complaining about having to leave a club game early it was so bad & then fill us with tales of the great hurling in their day.

Take off the blinkers OF, hurling is as good as ever nowadays. Just because Offaly are currently not at the top table, people around these parts moan about the poor standard of hurling. They do the same in Tipp, Clare & Galway and the common denominator is that all the counties are stuggling to regain former glory & are using the current day players as an easy scapegoat.

I dont know what forum you've been reading but i never once made comparisons to the standard of hurling in 2007 to that of the 80's or 90's.
For the rest of what you said - i'll respond later!

[Doon Massive]

Maybe I needed some more smileys in that post, tongue was firmly planted you know where.

[TheManFromFerbane]

Maybe I needed some more smileys in that post, tongue was firmly planted you know where.

Don't wuss out now!! Stand up for what you believe in!!!

[Dingle]

The herd mentality beginning to raise its ugly head again?

[Bord na Mona man]

The herd mentality beginning to raise its ugly head again?

Over the top polemics..."x is total crap", "y is complete rubbish", "z doesn't have the first clue about hurling" deserve to have the piss taken out of them.
Reasoned debate instead of serial grenade throwing, get more people to listen to you in most walks of life.
These are my own views btw, I didn't consult any herd or check what any party line was, before expressing them!

[midfield]

As far as i know , at least the final is fixed for O connor Park. There should be good Offaly support at it.

Does anybody know if the final will be shown live on TG4?

[Lone Shark]

The herd mentality beginning to raise its ugly head again?

Good Lord man, by all means the debate would be greatly enhanced by someone weighing in on behalf of OF and making a clear case why all modern hurling is in fact of poor quality in every county, but just pointing out how people appear to be ganging up on him is hardly supporting his case.

Being realistic, when a poster who is already notorious for exaggerated statements decides to really go over the top with something like this, it's hardly unreasonable that in the absence of any real backup for his case most contributors will point out the flaws, some politely, others less so. Again, when you put a controversial opinion out there - and Offaly's Future has in the past been fairly quick to highlight his/her impressions of the deficiencies of clubs, officials, trainers and playes in the past, in a small community like Offaly that will offend. In such a circumstance the somewhat unanimous and derisive response is to be expected.

Or on the other hand possibly OF is biding his time, and some day he'll come on here and post about this great match he/she just saw between two well prepared and well coached sides, and on that day we'll all know that the pinnacle of hurling - past, present and future - has just been scaled.

[DD]

The herd mentality beginning to raise its ugly head again?

Good Lord man, by all means the debate would be greatly enhanced by someone weighing in on behalf of OF and making a clear case why all modern hurling is in fact of poor quality in every county, but just pointing out how people appear to be ganging up on him is hardly supporting his case.

Being realistic, when a poster who is already notorious for exaggerated statements decides to really go over the top with something like this, it's hardly unreasonable that in the absence of any real backup for his case most contributors will point out the flaws, some politely, others less so. Again, when you put a controversial opinion out there - and Offaly's Future has in the past been fairly quick to highlight his/her impressions of the deficiencies of clubs, officials, trainers and playes in the past, in a small community like Offaly that will offend. In such a circumstance the somewhat unanimous and derisive response is to be expected.

Or on the other hand possibly OF is biding his time, and some day he'll come on here and post about this great match he/she just saw between two well prepared and well coached sides, and on that day we'll all know that the pinnacle of hurling - past, present and future - has just been scaled.