Hidden History on RTE - Coolacrease

[Lone Shark]

Just finished watching it there now. I'll be honest and admit that my knowledge of local history around that time is sparse to say the least, so even though there was a considerable degree of partisanship at play with the different analysts, it still made for very interesting viewing.

Whatever else can be said about Offaly for good and bad, the county tended not to feature prominently around the time of war of independence and civil war, and as such it was nice to kind of get some feel for it - however I feel now like some background reading is needed - one would obviously not like to depend on RTE for perfect reporting after all. Some of the stufff from the relatives at the end made it very clear what slant the producers were going for.

Any contributors here take it in, or indeed any posters with a better knowledge of Offaly history than mine feel like giving their opinion?

[Bord na Mona man]

I missed the programme, though I read about it's possible disputed neutrality in Phoenix.
Anything with Eoghan Harris' fingerprints on it is bound to be a little tainted in my opinion.
There is analysis of the incident here:

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74400

I'll try an get a look at the programme on rte.ie to see how it plays out.

[TheManFromFerbane]

For those of you that don't feel like reading the whole article here is a summerised version.

Eoghan Harris is a dick head

[Archangel]

I saw it, as I've been glued to the 'Hidden History' series so far.

This story from Cadamstown has remained in folklore, not for the fact that something between 14 and 30 Volunteers rounded up 2 Protestant/Unionist farmers and shot them, but the fact of HOW they were shot.
This era in our history is not one for romantic heroes and wonderous awe at what they achieved for us, but to look with open eyes at the savage nature of man. Horrific deeds were done by rebels and police and also by both sides in the civil war.
If these two lads were spies, or were helping the Crown forces at the time, then under the orders the Volunteers were working, they were legitimate targets and execution would be the decision. Put a bullet in their heads, and this story would never reverberate around the world like it did.
But No, they lined the two lads up against a wall, in front of their mother and sisters, and shot them in the groin, and when the lads turned around from the shots they were shot again from the rear in the groin area.

I don't care who you are or what you did,... this should not have happened as it did. They way these two lads lay in bleeding agony for 7 & 14 hours before they died is barbaric and inhuman.

The way RTE polarised the story from both sides was not to my liking, I think only one speaker held an unbiased view on this. I heard this story years ago from my grandfather, who at the time never mentioned 'how' they were shot., it was like people had 'forgotten' this fact about the story.

Worth reading more background on,.

[Sydthebeat]

I saw the programme last night, and heard the discussing yesterday on The Last Word.....

The programme itself was definately biased, but thats exactly the point IMHO, there shouldnt have been anyone there trying to condone the event....

However, it really didnt treat it as to what it probably was... which was simply a 'land grab' byproxy... the troubles at the time were used as an excuse....

There was a lot of ill feeling towards what was viewed as a 'plantation' family owning so much land in Offaly, and the locals used the war as their reason to get back the land.... this was clearly evident when another party was warned away from purchasing the land off the pearsons, so that th eland commision got it and divided it up between locals...

[Lone Shark]

I suppose a degree of it comes from the fact that a lot of Irish history as it is written means that many of the atrocities on the other side are anything but "Hidden History" - every act of a barbaric nature whither it was from the RIC, the Black and Tans or indeed any other such force tended to be ingrained in the local consciousness, and indeed in song or poetry quite often, given our lyrical nature as a nation.

It wouldn't have been a war if there weren't people who stepped over the line of acceptable (!) behaviour on both sides, but history is written by the winners, and as such perhaps this kind of broadcast did represent balance, in it's own way.

Still can't stand Eoghan Harris though. His nomination as a senator is not quite an atrocity to the same scale, but it's an atrocity nonetheless - I look forward to include it on my long list of reasons why our local FF councillors can feck themselves right off when they come around looking for votes in the next 12-18 months.

[Dingle]

I dont know how anyone can say it was biased. You'd some young redheaded lad who tried his best to demonise the protestantfamily and justify everything that happened them. You'd also an auld lad who came across as bit daft and clearly sypmpathic towards the IRA. He also denied that the family were tipped off before hand which is clearly the case.

The nature of the murders was barbaric

[durra1]

Hear hear lads

The young fella with the red hair and quiff who wrote ‘history of the IRA in Offaly’ was talking a whole load of manure from a historian’s perspective. The type of lad who would be easily convinced by pubtalk making the war of Independence seem like the Fionn McCool never-never land. Cannon fodder for the Shinners. The other guy Willie Murphy tutored me in college and he gave what I though was a very balanced view of things while admitting so much about it was undocumented. There is no way anyone could try to justify what was a blatant land grab exercise. Barbaric , primeval way of doing things – like the grey squirrel biting the nuts off the red squirrel to take over its territory and stop it breeding. No different. Gunshots to the head would have changed many folks perspective on it.

The same thing went on up North in the troubles in border regions where the Provos used go for the oldest sons of Protestant Landowners justifying it on the basis that they were part time UDR soldiers. The lad who walked out on the club in Fermanagh there recently lost Kin in this kind of way. Of course, you look at the Loyalist killings of innocent Catholics and you could go on and on with that and get nowhere.

Was is beyond doubt is Eoghan Harris is an absolute coc7sucker. It’s not hard to see how his mind ticks over like an infant when you see him on the ‘Ringy’ DVD. That’s what happens when you get caught up in academic circles all your life and loose touch with normality. He’s actually quite dangerous too as so many these days take what they read as the gospel truth.

[Fit For Junior]

Interesting stuff allright. I watched the program, and also read BnaMonaman's link to indymedia (http://www.indymedia.ie/article/84547) which makes for very interesting reading.
I would not agree at all that this was a blatant land-grabbing exercise. The fact is that these men were executed because they were loyalists who tried the impede local republicans, and ultimately because they shot at two volunteers who were blocking a road in Cadamstown as part of IRA business at the time. One of the volunteers was shot in the stomach and eventually died from his injury. Because of this incident the executions were ordered by the IRA leadership (OC was a Dubliner), not by locals. Certainly the execution was botched and should have been clinical (although the men were not shot in the genitals as described by Harris in the programe - according to the indymedia source they were shot in the groin, shoulder and buttock), and this is what I think to be the only regretable part of the whole episode.
Even though the program involved contributors who attempted to defend the republican side of the story, I though that the producers of the program attempted to paint a picture of a group of murderous locals who decided to murder two carefree, innocent young fella's simply because they were protestants who had plenty of land.
I do not for a minute think that this was the case. There were plenty of other protestant land owners in the area who were not touched. The contributors on the republican side may not have come across very well, but Harris and Stanley (whose father was a known loyalist and informer at the time, and whose presence on the Pearson farm provided even more reason to believe the Pearsons were colluding with crown forces), were hardly unbiased in their own interpretation.

It does stoke up a lot of thought about what was going on at the time. We learned about the WOI in school, but only when you hear sad stories like this, do you realise the real hurt that people on all sides suffered, and that people today are still deeply affected by it.

[BEINGFAITHFUL]

Seen it.....

[Bord na Mona man]

As someone with an in-depth knowledge of the history of the county and in particular this period in history, i would like to question fit for junior's comment that no other protestant family in the area was harmed in any way.

I think you will find that FFJ said

There were plenty of other protestant land owners in the area who were not touched.

Which is true as I know myself, though I wasn't alive at the time.
Best of luck with the book, I hope it is a factual account of what happened rather than an agenda driven work.

[Bord na Mona man]

There is good discussion on the documentary here. A few of the programme's findings are up for questioning.
Was there an angle being worked by the producers, sloppiness in the research, or are the green side telling porky pies?

http://www.village.ie/Media/Television/ ... olacrease/

Whatever about them Loyalists, or arrogant or whatever else. I think the two boys sealed their fate by firing shots at IRA men. Whether they killed an IRA man or not, seemingly not the case according to the programme, but others seem to suggest so, they were foolish to get involved in any armed exchanges

I think they were a couple of fiery fellas who misread the changing political landscape, underestimated the drive for independence, underestimated the lengths at which the local IRA would go to get their way.

The reasons behind their killings were hardly unique. You could make a lot of documentaries about people who were killed for far less around these times. The actual manner of their execution was appalling though. War and revolutions are dirty business with few heroes.

[True Red]

The kernal of this issue I believe is the fact that it is been stated that these men were executed when it is quite clear that they were actually murdered.How anyone can suggest that the shooting of these men in the lower reaches of their bodies was an "execution" is beyond me.

It was cold blooded murder in its cruelest form. If the IRA squad had carried out their orders properly I would have no issue with the killings."War is hell" and all of that rhetoric.

However the fact that these men were assaulted in such a fashion leads me to believe there was a more sinister and perhaps personal aspect to the incident.