Hello!
well no posts today at all on it, was it just dung or are people too depressed or drunk to talk about it!!?
Hurling final
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Bord na Mona man
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I'd say the resident match reporters are finishing their articles, but I'll throw up a few words.
It was an entertaining game, though not of a high standard.
K/K started well, but it took a while for their forwards to get going.
They hit a few bad wides and made a few bad decisions in possession.
The Birr full back line played well throughout, Claffey at full back and Verney especially.
K/K were on top at midfield with the big men of Lee and Mahon going well. They didn't build up a big enough lead and once Pajo started to shuffle the deck and make the switches Birr came into it.
At half time K/K lead 6 to 4. However you never felt they were going to do it. The second half was even for a while, but at 9 points a piece Birr kicked for home. It must be said that a couple of refereeing calls went against K/K at crucial times.
While Kilcormac Killoughey battled hard to the end, they lacked a bit of the craft and stickwork that Birr had.
Sid was in super form both from frees and open play. In a scrappy game his superior touch on the ball really stood out. He stuck over 3 nice points from play too.
It looks an average enough Birr side by previous standards, but hopefully they give a good crack!
It was an entertaining game, though not of a high standard.
K/K started well, but it took a while for their forwards to get going.
They hit a few bad wides and made a few bad decisions in possession.
The Birr full back line played well throughout, Claffey at full back and Verney especially.
K/K were on top at midfield with the big men of Lee and Mahon going well. They didn't build up a big enough lead and once Pajo started to shuffle the deck and make the switches Birr came into it.
At half time K/K lead 6 to 4. However you never felt they were going to do it. The second half was even for a while, but at 9 points a piece Birr kicked for home. It must be said that a couple of refereeing calls went against K/K at crucial times.
While Kilcormac Killoughey battled hard to the end, they lacked a bit of the craft and stickwork that Birr had.
Sid was in super form both from frees and open play. In a scrappy game his superior touch on the ball really stood out. He stuck over 3 nice points from play too.
It looks an average enough Birr side by previous standards, but hopefully they give a good crack!
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Plain of the Herbs
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Sometimes the old ways are the best. So it was at O’Connor Park yesterday where Birr, with their tried and trusted method of direct hurling, overcame a game but ultimately limited Kilcormac Killoughey side. When the match is broken down to its most basic, Birr beat them on their greater craft and cuteness.
It was a poor final. Both sides took their lead from the previous night’s World Cup final where the South African and English attacks found their opponent’s defences too difficult to break down.
The Kilcormac men had first use of the fresh wind that blew in to the Arden Road end of the ground. Their backs were on top from the start with Colm Cassidy dominating Gary Hanniffy in the air, aided by Eamonn Lee who had a fine game throughout. Their forwards were struggling to make any impact though, where Niall Claffey was dominan. The wind was worth fifteen to twenty yards of territory so a decent half time lead was required. Most of the scoring came from frees though and K/K could only take a two point lead to the dressing room at the break, leading six points to four. Ciarán Slevin and Colm Cassidy had pointed twice each from placed balls with Brian Whelahan doing likewise for the Birrmen. Three scores from play, then, in the opening moiety of the county’s hurling showpiece.
Birr made a double substitution five minutes before the break with Brian Watkins making his senior debut replacing Neil Rogers (who had played second fiddle to Lee) and Paul O’Meara taking over from Paul Molloy. Another debutant, Keith Hehir replaced Simon Whelahan during the break as Pat Joe rang the changes. O’Meara and Hehir would each go on to score a point each during that second half. Kilcormac withdrew their captain, Martin Murray (who had got no change from Rory Hanniffy) who was replaced by minor star Daniel Currams.
It didn’t take Birr long to get back on level terms and Sean Ryan replaced Michael Dwane in attack. Ryan’s pace caused problems for the K/k rearguard but it was the flicks and changes of direction from Brian Whelahan which caused them most problems. Rory Hanniffy was now on Eamonn Lee and also had a major influence in the middle third of the field. Brian Watkins got on top of James Gorman, closing down a critical K/K supply line while the full back lime of O’Meara, Claffey and Verney was outstanding.
The sides were deadlocked at nine points each on the three quarter mark and then, almost in an instant that became 12-9 as Birr tacked on three quick points. By now Kilcormac were hurling with five forwards and seven backs with Ciarán Slevin withdrawn to defence. An unusual approach for a team chasing the game. Slevin’s old failings of getting caught behind his man resurrected as Niall Claffey was first out to everything when Slevin was sited at full forward. I the final quarter the green and gold were reduced to a series of short puckouts and attacking down the middle channel with their ‘heavyweights’ finding the intensity of a county final joust with Birr too much to handle. The east wind grew colder for the Kilcormac folk as Birr closed out the game with a string of scores.
Birr proved again they are still the best team in the county. While their defence was superb it will be a worry that Brian Whelahan was by far their most effective forward as they face into a Leinster semi final against either Kilkenny newcomers Muckalee or a depleted Ballyhale. I don’t agree with the concept of man-of- the-match awards in a team game but I thought Michael Verney would have been a worthy winner of that prize yesterday. Kilcormac are a young team and will return to this stage if they learn from this experience. They will in all likelihood reach the semi finals next year and then it’s down to themselves after that. They depend a lot on their size and strength and they really need fellas in their mid twenties rather than the seven under 21’s they finished with yesterday. They also struggled for possession when the heat came on.
Finally, I want to congratulate the Lusmagh juniors who won their title for the first time in fifteen years yesterday. Having been beaten in four finals since that 1992 win, yesterday’s win came a s a relief more than anything.
Finally finally, to whichever of the five journalist contributors named in the programme who cut and paste my stuff for yesterday’s match programme – go do your own research and don’t be so lazy!
It was a poor final. Both sides took their lead from the previous night’s World Cup final where the South African and English attacks found their opponent’s defences too difficult to break down.
The Kilcormac men had first use of the fresh wind that blew in to the Arden Road end of the ground. Their backs were on top from the start with Colm Cassidy dominating Gary Hanniffy in the air, aided by Eamonn Lee who had a fine game throughout. Their forwards were struggling to make any impact though, where Niall Claffey was dominan. The wind was worth fifteen to twenty yards of territory so a decent half time lead was required. Most of the scoring came from frees though and K/K could only take a two point lead to the dressing room at the break, leading six points to four. Ciarán Slevin and Colm Cassidy had pointed twice each from placed balls with Brian Whelahan doing likewise for the Birrmen. Three scores from play, then, in the opening moiety of the county’s hurling showpiece.
Birr made a double substitution five minutes before the break with Brian Watkins making his senior debut replacing Neil Rogers (who had played second fiddle to Lee) and Paul O’Meara taking over from Paul Molloy. Another debutant, Keith Hehir replaced Simon Whelahan during the break as Pat Joe rang the changes. O’Meara and Hehir would each go on to score a point each during that second half. Kilcormac withdrew their captain, Martin Murray (who had got no change from Rory Hanniffy) who was replaced by minor star Daniel Currams.
It didn’t take Birr long to get back on level terms and Sean Ryan replaced Michael Dwane in attack. Ryan’s pace caused problems for the K/k rearguard but it was the flicks and changes of direction from Brian Whelahan which caused them most problems. Rory Hanniffy was now on Eamonn Lee and also had a major influence in the middle third of the field. Brian Watkins got on top of James Gorman, closing down a critical K/K supply line while the full back lime of O’Meara, Claffey and Verney was outstanding.
The sides were deadlocked at nine points each on the three quarter mark and then, almost in an instant that became 12-9 as Birr tacked on three quick points. By now Kilcormac were hurling with five forwards and seven backs with Ciarán Slevin withdrawn to defence. An unusual approach for a team chasing the game. Slevin’s old failings of getting caught behind his man resurrected as Niall Claffey was first out to everything when Slevin was sited at full forward. I the final quarter the green and gold were reduced to a series of short puckouts and attacking down the middle channel with their ‘heavyweights’ finding the intensity of a county final joust with Birr too much to handle. The east wind grew colder for the Kilcormac folk as Birr closed out the game with a string of scores.
Birr proved again they are still the best team in the county. While their defence was superb it will be a worry that Brian Whelahan was by far their most effective forward as they face into a Leinster semi final against either Kilkenny newcomers Muckalee or a depleted Ballyhale. I don’t agree with the concept of man-of- the-match awards in a team game but I thought Michael Verney would have been a worthy winner of that prize yesterday. Kilcormac are a young team and will return to this stage if they learn from this experience. They will in all likelihood reach the semi finals next year and then it’s down to themselves after that. They depend a lot on their size and strength and they really need fellas in their mid twenties rather than the seven under 21’s they finished with yesterday. They also struggled for possession when the heat came on.
Finally, I want to congratulate the Lusmagh juniors who won their title for the first time in fifteen years yesterday. Having been beaten in four finals since that 1992 win, yesterday’s win came a s a relief more than anything.
Finally finally, to whichever of the five journalist contributors named in the programme who cut and paste my stuff for yesterday’s match programme – go do your own research and don’t be so lazy!
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Lone Shark
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Had posted this on the other thread - it seems the reaction is going on in here, so here we go so....
Overall I have to say I was very disappointed by yesterday's game. Kilcormac/Killoughey might go away thinking that Bir are very hard beaten, but the truth of it is that no matter who you were playing, you can't ask for county finalists to play any more moderately than Birr did yesterday. It was a golden opportunity for them, and one that certainly mightn't come aound as easily again. Certainly when you compare it with the fare that was on offer last year, 2007 is clearly a much less impressive vintage.
If that comes across as critical of Birr, well then I'm happy to stand by that. Nobody expects Birr to hurl at the standard they were at around 2001/2002 all the time, but they are a lot better than they showed out there yesterday. On paper I don't see why Niall Claffey at full back makes sense, but he hurled extremely well yesterday and along with Verney in the corner and Sid up front he was one of the three contenders for man of the match. The two Hanniffy's did what they had to do without really burning the place up, while O'Meara, Barry Whelahan, and Paul Cleary were all quite proficient and did what they had to do. After that the cupboard was fairly bare in terms of good displays from the starting fifteen.
That leaves at least six Birr starters that were either very quiet or downright poor in my book, and even still you never felt that Birr were under pressure. The comment about K/K's fitness above (other thread) is maybe a bit harsh - if you pick a big team designed to dominate in the air and to over power, then it's hardly surprising that you might concede a bit of pace on the ground - but when that aerial threat was not working out it was criminal that the K/K gameplan was not changed. John Leahy might have his coaching qualifications, but he has a lot to learn yet based on yesterday.
I was very impressed with the two K/K corner backs, while Kevin Grogan was very decent at centre back as well, despite all Sid's heroics. The midfield pairing also hurled effectively, and with a lot of guidance either could possibly be county potential, but they still have a long way to go.
As for the forwards, well the last thing Offaly needs is more forwards who can't fight for dirty ball, or at the very least make life difficult for backs trying to get their clearance away. K/K were shocking in this regard yesterday, and put way too much pressure on their backline by conceding the sliothar without any real semblence of a challenge all too often.
On a small point too, being tall is all very well, but it's no use when all you do with a high ball is swing with one hand only on the hurl. Several serial offenders in this regard on the K/K team yesterday.
From Birr's perspective, with a likely showdown with Ballyhale looming there needs to be serious surgery if they are to get within ten points of the Kilkenny champions-in-waiting. Seán Ryan will add some real impetus if he's fit (his introduction made a big difference yesterday in my book) but the lethargy of players like Stephen Brown and Simon Whelahan in particular couldn't be tolerated again. Those intermediates are all available again now and need to be used.
For K/K, I don't know what to suggest. Some good performances, but a lot of very poor stickwork and use of the ball as well. On the one hand you could say they were one game away from a county title, my gut feeling is that there's a lot more distance to travel yet.
Overall I have to say I was very disappointed by yesterday's game. Kilcormac/Killoughey might go away thinking that Bir are very hard beaten, but the truth of it is that no matter who you were playing, you can't ask for county finalists to play any more moderately than Birr did yesterday. It was a golden opportunity for them, and one that certainly mightn't come aound as easily again. Certainly when you compare it with the fare that was on offer last year, 2007 is clearly a much less impressive vintage.
If that comes across as critical of Birr, well then I'm happy to stand by that. Nobody expects Birr to hurl at the standard they were at around 2001/2002 all the time, but they are a lot better than they showed out there yesterday. On paper I don't see why Niall Claffey at full back makes sense, but he hurled extremely well yesterday and along with Verney in the corner and Sid up front he was one of the three contenders for man of the match. The two Hanniffy's did what they had to do without really burning the place up, while O'Meara, Barry Whelahan, and Paul Cleary were all quite proficient and did what they had to do. After that the cupboard was fairly bare in terms of good displays from the starting fifteen.
That leaves at least six Birr starters that were either very quiet or downright poor in my book, and even still you never felt that Birr were under pressure. The comment about K/K's fitness above (other thread) is maybe a bit harsh - if you pick a big team designed to dominate in the air and to over power, then it's hardly surprising that you might concede a bit of pace on the ground - but when that aerial threat was not working out it was criminal that the K/K gameplan was not changed. John Leahy might have his coaching qualifications, but he has a lot to learn yet based on yesterday.
I was very impressed with the two K/K corner backs, while Kevin Grogan was very decent at centre back as well, despite all Sid's heroics. The midfield pairing also hurled effectively, and with a lot of guidance either could possibly be county potential, but they still have a long way to go.
As for the forwards, well the last thing Offaly needs is more forwards who can't fight for dirty ball, or at the very least make life difficult for backs trying to get their clearance away. K/K were shocking in this regard yesterday, and put way too much pressure on their backline by conceding the sliothar without any real semblence of a challenge all too often.
On a small point too, being tall is all very well, but it's no use when all you do with a high ball is swing with one hand only on the hurl. Several serial offenders in this regard on the K/K team yesterday.
From Birr's perspective, with a likely showdown with Ballyhale looming there needs to be serious surgery if they are to get within ten points of the Kilkenny champions-in-waiting. Seán Ryan will add some real impetus if he's fit (his introduction made a big difference yesterday in my book) but the lethargy of players like Stephen Brown and Simon Whelahan in particular couldn't be tolerated again. Those intermediates are all available again now and need to be used.
For K/K, I don't know what to suggest. Some good performances, but a lot of very poor stickwork and use of the ball as well. On the one hand you could say they were one game away from a county title, my gut feeling is that there's a lot more distance to travel yet.
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Offalys Future
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County Final 2007
I was disappointed Sunday leaving o'connor park. Not with the result, the best team always wins and Birr were the best team on the day.
The game wasn't great but in the last month I have been to club games in 5 other counties and the standard of club hurling has been no better. I thought it was an okay game.
Birr never got going at all in the first half and KK should have been 6 points up at half time at the very least. Birr were struggling big time. They had 12 puckouts in the first half and managed just to win one of these.
In the second half they had 7 puckouts and won 5. They had excellent performances from Verney, Claffey, R.Hanniffy in the second half and Brian Whelehan. He gave a solid display throughout. His free taking was exceptional and he was given plenty of space to take his scores. I was critical of Whelehan earlier in the year and I feel I was right in what I said. At the time he was playing poorly at corner forward and there was a lot of verbal attacks at hos teammates referees etc. Thankfully that only happened once in the second half where the ball was moved up. He gave a very experienced display like only he could.
As for KK. Here is where my disappointment really is.
John Leahy and his management team really got it wrong on the weekend.
I don't know whether it was the occasion or what.
To beat a team like Birr you will very rarely beat them 15 on 15. You need to come up with a game plan and make sure it is fully implemented. KK didn’t do this.
1.
In the most important game of the year you have to start your best 15. KK didn’t do this, they left off Daniel Currams and I disagree with this decision. I know he has been an "impact sub" in the last few games. But I feel that he is a very good hurler and could have caused big problems if started. As it was he had very little input when he came on.
2.
Ciaran Slevein is kk best forward but they placed him full forward on Birr's best back Niall Claffey. This move was never going to work. When Ballyskenagh played Birr back a few years ago in the county final they moved their best player David Franks to wing back on Rory Hanniffy, in return they lost their attacking threat and at best were going to cancel out 1 Birr player. As soon as Slevin moved to the wing he scored a point. With the pressure on in the second half he missed a critical free, other than that in the full forward line he got very little chances.
3.
Gary Hanniffy/Brian Whelehan
It was a great move to put Whelehan centre forward. Grogan didn’t mark him and tried to hold the centre. But everything went through Brian. Also Colm Cassidy. His biggest downfall came back to haunt him. He hurls very well but his man still managed 2 points from play. What KK had so was two loose backs on Birrs two best forwards.
If Grogan had been a lot tighter on Whelehan and not allowed him the space that he did. KK would have won this game.
4.
KK style of play.
Especially in the first half when they were on top all over the field, they just hit high ball aftyer high ball in the forwards. Why not have played Barry Gorman if they were going to do this? Players shooting wides from out the field while Slevin and company were been starved of good ball.
They neglected the style that got them to the final. The free flowing fast running game. It’s a pity.
5.
Tony Carroll
Some people were critical of the ref. I thought he didn’t do a bad job. He gave dubious frees to both sides but the problem was that the ones he gave to Birr were in scoring range while the ones he gave to kk weren't.
You have to be prepared for decisions like this in big games. It certainly wasn’t because of the ref that kk lost
6.
John Leahy
It was clear to see that Leahy had communication with someone via a ear piece. But back in the earlier rounds this wasn’t present. As a manager you have to believe in yourself and your ability to lead the team to the county final.
Not all the time but the majority of times stuff like this introduced just before a county final can be more of a distraction than a help.
I still believe he is a very good trainer, he just needs experience and less distractions.
All in all I thought it wasn’t a bad game, Birr were the better team on the day and deserve their county title.
Leinster club championship they play kk champions, hard to see them progress but you never know!
I was disappointed Sunday leaving o'connor park. Not with the result, the best team always wins and Birr were the best team on the day.
The game wasn't great but in the last month I have been to club games in 5 other counties and the standard of club hurling has been no better. I thought it was an okay game.
Birr never got going at all in the first half and KK should have been 6 points up at half time at the very least. Birr were struggling big time. They had 12 puckouts in the first half and managed just to win one of these.
In the second half they had 7 puckouts and won 5. They had excellent performances from Verney, Claffey, R.Hanniffy in the second half and Brian Whelehan. He gave a solid display throughout. His free taking was exceptional and he was given plenty of space to take his scores. I was critical of Whelehan earlier in the year and I feel I was right in what I said. At the time he was playing poorly at corner forward and there was a lot of verbal attacks at hos teammates referees etc. Thankfully that only happened once in the second half where the ball was moved up. He gave a very experienced display like only he could.
As for KK. Here is where my disappointment really is.
John Leahy and his management team really got it wrong on the weekend.
I don't know whether it was the occasion or what.
To beat a team like Birr you will very rarely beat them 15 on 15. You need to come up with a game plan and make sure it is fully implemented. KK didn’t do this.
1.
In the most important game of the year you have to start your best 15. KK didn’t do this, they left off Daniel Currams and I disagree with this decision. I know he has been an "impact sub" in the last few games. But I feel that he is a very good hurler and could have caused big problems if started. As it was he had very little input when he came on.
2.
Ciaran Slevein is kk best forward but they placed him full forward on Birr's best back Niall Claffey. This move was never going to work. When Ballyskenagh played Birr back a few years ago in the county final they moved their best player David Franks to wing back on Rory Hanniffy, in return they lost their attacking threat and at best were going to cancel out 1 Birr player. As soon as Slevin moved to the wing he scored a point. With the pressure on in the second half he missed a critical free, other than that in the full forward line he got very little chances.
3.
Gary Hanniffy/Brian Whelehan
It was a great move to put Whelehan centre forward. Grogan didn’t mark him and tried to hold the centre. But everything went through Brian. Also Colm Cassidy. His biggest downfall came back to haunt him. He hurls very well but his man still managed 2 points from play. What KK had so was two loose backs on Birrs two best forwards.
If Grogan had been a lot tighter on Whelehan and not allowed him the space that he did. KK would have won this game.
4.
KK style of play.
Especially in the first half when they were on top all over the field, they just hit high ball aftyer high ball in the forwards. Why not have played Barry Gorman if they were going to do this? Players shooting wides from out the field while Slevin and company were been starved of good ball.
They neglected the style that got them to the final. The free flowing fast running game. It’s a pity.
5.
Tony Carroll
Some people were critical of the ref. I thought he didn’t do a bad job. He gave dubious frees to both sides but the problem was that the ones he gave to Birr were in scoring range while the ones he gave to kk weren't.
You have to be prepared for decisions like this in big games. It certainly wasn’t because of the ref that kk lost
6.
John Leahy
It was clear to see that Leahy had communication with someone via a ear piece. But back in the earlier rounds this wasn’t present. As a manager you have to believe in yourself and your ability to lead the team to the county final.
Not all the time but the majority of times stuff like this introduced just before a county final can be more of a distraction than a help.
I still believe he is a very good trainer, he just needs experience and less distractions.
All in all I thought it wasn’t a bad game, Birr were the better team on the day and deserve their county title.
Leinster club championship they play kk champions, hard to see them progress but you never know!
" In The Presence Of Confidence Doubt Cannot Exist "
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kinnittyman
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Plain of the Herbs
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Damien Martin played on the winning team in twelve finals. He retired after the 1986 final defeat but was sub when they won in 1987 (his thirteenth). Joe Dooley would also have twelve medals. I’m not sure if he played in all twelve though – perhaps he did.
Eight ’Rynagh’s men who are in the photo for their first win in 1965 were still on the team when they won their tenth title twelve years later. 2 Whelahans (Pat Joe and Frank), 2 Moylans (Pat and Barney), Basil Johnson and Paudge Mulhare would have ten medals. Joe Dooley and Damien Martin were the only survivors from the first title win when they won in 1981 and 1982.
Brian Whelahan’s would perhaps be more noteworthy as he hurled outfield, and if he can avoid injury will surely win a few more before he finishes up.
Eight ’Rynagh’s men who are in the photo for their first win in 1965 were still on the team when they won their tenth title twelve years later. 2 Whelahans (Pat Joe and Frank), 2 Moylans (Pat and Barney), Basil Johnson and Paudge Mulhare would have ten medals. Joe Dooley and Damien Martin were the only survivors from the first title win when they won in 1981 and 1982.
Brian Whelahan’s would perhaps be more noteworthy as he hurled outfield, and if he can avoid injury will surely win a few more before he finishes up.
kinnittyman wrote:JUst a quick quesrtion for any of the Ryanaghs contingent. Did Damien Martin hurl in all 13 county finals he won? If not Sids achievement might be the more noteworthty as he has taken part in all 11 finals he has won.