County Hurling Final 2007

[Offalys Future]

And so its Kilcormac/Killoughey vs Birr

Birr have been the aristocrats of club hurling for a long time now but all that is set to change.
I expect Kk to beat Birr in Sunday weeks final.
KK under the management of John Leahy have made things tough for themselves drawing with both Kinnitty and St.Ryanaghs. They will have learnt alot from these four games though and in both replays they won easily. Last weekends scoreline was 2-23 which is quiet impressive.
They have already this year scored impressively against Drumcullen 2-21 and 4-20 against Ballyskenach.

Birr managed 0-18 against shinrone earlier in the year and also 3-12 against Kinnitty, they also managed 1-19 agains Tullamore.
To me ths Birr team is at the end of its tenure and this years final will see Brian Whelehan calling it a day from senior hurling and from what i have seen this yea he can take Simon and a few others with him.
There is plenty of talent coming through in Birr but they arent getting the opportunity to stake a claim because Pad Joe Whelehan is runing the show there. They have hurlers playig intermediate that should be on their senior team. The way he has treated Sean Ryan this year has been a disgrace.

Enough about Birr, Kilcormac/Killoughey are the future of Offaly club hurling and also our county team, they have some really good hurlers and they have a good manager. I would be worried though that they might leave Currams off but i hope he starts.
Its a big day for Ciaran Slevin, he is a really good hurler and now he gets his chance to prove himself as does many of their players.
In the final Slevin will get enough chances from frees and open play to have a huge impact on the game. Its up to him to deliver.

My Verdict - Kilcormac By 4

[Plain of the Herbs]

As a result of the unavoidable overrun of development work on the pitch at St. Brendan’s Park, this year’s Offaly senior hurling final will have an unusual setting, that of the new O’Connor Park. The new stadium added to the occasion at the recent football final and while regular hurling final visitors from neighbouring Tipperary and Galway may not be inclined to make the trip to Tullamore, perhaps the North Offaly faithful might be tempted to make a trip that would otherwise be out of their reach. There is something almost Croke Park-esque about the stiles and the stairwells which form part of the new stand.

This will be the first hurling final at the venue since 1953. During the emergency the championship was split into north and south with the two winners meeting in the final. The final venue alternated during this period, which coincided with Birr’s other golden period when they harvested six titles between 1938 and 1948. Birr won three of their finals during this period at the venue, drawing another.

The pitch has been in constant use over the last six weeks or so, with football and hurling semi finals and finals in all grades being played there. It is now showing signs of wear however, though it has been helped with the recent dry spell. If we can get over the coming weekend without rain the pitch should be okay.

Birr and Kilcormac Killoughey will contest this unique final. The contrast in their credentials couldn’t be greater. Birr have the kingpins of club hurling, not just locally but nationally for the last two decades. Kilcormac Killoughey have been frequent semi finalists in the same period though are appearing in just their second senior final in modern times. Neither are strangers to the novel venue however, each having hurled there twice in recent weeks.

This year is the centenary of the last county senior title to be brought back to Kilcormac Killoughey parish. In 1907, they became the only parish to ‘beat themselves’ when Killoughey beat Kilcormac in the final. Since then they have operated under many guises and banners with little success with only three intermediate titles coming to Killoughey (1948, 1980 & 1984) and one to Kilcormac (1982). A long century of faithful participation with little by way of reward.

The parish united in 1987 as Kilcormac Killoughey so this is their twenty-first year as a parish club. They have made steady, if slow progress since then. They reached their first semi final in 1990, losing to Birr. They then had to wait another twelve years for semi final success coming as it did at the fifth attempt. That semi final win was widely celebrated, celebrations which were interrupted by the final itself! They met a Birr side at their peak in that final and were satisfied enough to emerge with an eight point defeat. They have played Birr thirteen times since their amalgamation and while K/K won the first one in 1988 Birr have won all twelve meetings since then. The sides have met in each of the last eight years, so a Birr – kIlcormac Killoughey encounter is now an annual event.

Kilcormac Killoughey have frequently appeared on the undercard on county final day in minor or under 16 finals and while they have been quite successful at underage they have struggled to reproduce that success at adult level. They have won eight minor titles since 1990 and are the current holders of the FCA cup. As I said, they have been frequent semi finalists but have repeatedly flattered to deceive leaving good form behind them on the big day for one reason or another. Even last year they were widely fancied to beat Birr in the semi final but were well beaten by half time.

So what has changed this year? Well, half the starting fifteen for a start. The fifteen who started the drawn semi final against Kinnitty showed seven changes in personnel from that which took the field in the semi final defeat by Birr last year. Damien Kilmartin, Conor Mahon, James Gorman and Christopher Guinan have been called up from last year’s winning minor team with Eamonn Lee, Mark Leonard and veteran David Gleeson being recalled. Stephen Byrne, Mark Hand and the promising Kevin Saddler have departed the squad altogether. It was a big gamble which has paid off and reaching the final with such a frighteningly young team has been an astonishing achievement.

Only three who started that final in 2002 remained to start this year’s semi final. Colm Cassidy and Ger Healion lined out in attack that day and have now reverted to defence. Martin Murray is the other survivor. Keith McConville and Kevin Rigney have been in and out of the team since the championship’s group stages. This represents a huge turnover of players even allowing for the fact that they have a town and a sizeable parish to pick from and shows an enormous depth of interest in the game among the youth of the area.

Birr, as everyone knows, have dominated the current decade, only losing twice in the county championship since 1999 (losing a group game against Lusmagh in 2000 and the 2004 final to Coolderry). They are now in decline though and this year they have struggled to put away middling opposition who they would have blown away when at the peak of their powers five years ago. Pat Joe Whelahan has returned to the helm though many see this as a retrograde step for the green and red. Observing him during the semi-final the ‘Little General’ still retains his huge passion and enthusiasm for hurling.

Birr have rearranged their back line in a bid to freshen the team up. Niall Claffey now lines out at full back where he hurled well against Coolderry. Paul Cleary now commands the centre back role where his height and hurling ability will be critical. Rory Hanniffy and Dylan Hayden complete a formidable half back line on which Birr’s title hopes will rest. John Paul O’Meara and Michael Verney are two dependable corner backs.

Although Brian Whelahan has lost pace he will still command close attention from the green and gold defence. Even still, ‘Sid’ will need to stop Ger Healion from bursting out with the ball to clear and set up attacks. Birr will look to the nippy Michael Dwane for scores from inside the thirty yard mark. On his day Stephen Brown can be a match winner though he can drift out of games for long periods. They will also need a big contribution from the two younger Whelahans. If Simon lines out at centre half forward he will need to stop Kevin Grogan from supplying Slevin and Leonard in the danger zone. Barry will most likely pick up Conor Mahon with Neil Rogers marking Lee.

The Birr management have raised a few eyebrows by not introducing more young talent like Brian Watkins and Mark Quinlan this year, preferring instead to challenge for another intermediate title. Up to now they have effectively operated with a panel of eighteen players. With the Keary cup now secured, those intermediate players will now be available to them.

Their attack depends a lot on Gary Hanniffy for scores and for ball winning. Gary remains a vital target for their puckout though Brian Mullins tended to overhit the puckout on occasion in the semi final resulting in Coolderry prospering. Colm Cassidy has difficulty in the air here and will be targeted by Birr in this regard.

Freetaking, surprisingly, is an area Birr struggled with in the semi final. Paul Cleary has a fine stroke of the ball but isn’t consistent enough at hitting the target and really should drop more in. Both Simon and Brian Whelahan mis-hit some close in frees in the semi final and while this can be blamed on a slippery hurl this doesn’t often happen in hurling even in wet weather.

Whether by coincidence or not, Birr have played second fidde during the third quarters of the drawn and replayed finals last year and in their recent semi final, all against Coolderry. Coolderry’s inability to create scoring opportunities out of a dominance of territory and possession during this period, coupled with Stephen Brown’s goal as the game exited that third quarter saw Birr qualify for the final.

So how can Kilcormac Killoughey beat Birr? Certainly they will pose different questions of Birr than Coolderry did. Kilcormac will attack down the wings whereas Coolderry played everything down the cul-de-sac that was the middle of the Birr defence. Mahon and Lee do much of their hurling out wide and in space. Kilcormac could be in difficulties if Birr can close down the space for these, particularly Mahon, who requires a lot of space.

This Kilcormac side all stand in excess of 6’ tall with the exception of Cassidy, a factor they used to their advantage against St. Rynagh’s and especially against Kinnitty. They won’t dominate possession against Birr to anything like the extent they have up to now. It will be interesting to see how they will cope with this, as Birr will be more than a match them in stature, and will be physically stronger and cuter where Paul Cleary and the Hanniffy’s are tall while Dylan Hayden and Stephen Brown are good in the air anyway, though not of the same stature. Will the Kilcormac men have the discipline to tackle correctly when not in possession? They will need to.

Kilcormac Killoughey more or less settled on their first choice fifteen over the course of the draw and replay with St. Rynagh’s. Last year’s minor Damien Kilmartin has nailed down the goalkeeping spot. Ger Healion has long since been confirmed as their best full back. John and Kevin Grogan have cemented their positions at 2 and 6 respectively and are hurling well. Colm Cassidy, following spells in attack is now back at home at left half back. Kevin Rigney replaced county under 21 star Brian Leonard at right half back for the replay against Kinnitty. Injury free, Leonard should resume this slot for the final. They have been giving up a number of goal chances in each game however and they were thankful for Kinnitty’s profligacy of front of goal.

The midfield partnership of Eamonn Lee and Conor Mahon has forced the move of long time midfielder Martin Murray to the half forward line. Peter Healion is a good centre half forward; James Gorman is good under the high ball and can pop up with useful scores betimes. Ciarán Slevin now looks to get out in front of his man much more than he used to and is scoring more from play as a result. He has yet to come up against a defender like Michael Verney this year yet though and Sunday will be a big test for the youngster.

Each side have decent sideline options available. Going on the semi final line-ups, Birr have the experienced Liam Power and Paul O’Meara (who scored the winner in last years final) in reserve while Sean Ryan was a surprising non-starter against Coolderry. I would be inclined to give him the nod ahead of Paul Molloy where his speed would be valuable. His hurling has improved through his involvement with the county seniors and under 21s this year. They also have Brian Watkins to cover the backs, if required.

Kilcormac’s options lie mainly in the backs with whoever doesn’t start between Brian Leonard and Kevin Rigney and also Keith McConville and Jamie Flynn available to step into the defence. Minor Daniel Currams has been their first sub for the forwards during the knockout stages though if they hit a rocky period it would be difficult for a minor to rightify a listing ship against an in-form Birr defence, even one of Currams’ potential. Aidan Bracken would be another option up front. It’s difficult to see a role for Barry Gorman in this team.

They can feel the hand of history around the banks of the Silver River. That hand can also be a heavy hand, as Shamrocks’ footballers found out to their cost in the football final and the breakthrough title is the hardest of all to win. They have made huge progress this year, beating St. Rynagh’s for the first time and reaching a final with a very young team. They were utterly dominant in the second half of the replayed semi final against Kinnitty when they clocked a big score leading to such optimism. They diced with death in the drawn game however, a match they should have won well as they were clearly the better team. Birr are now forewarned which they may not have been if Kilcormac had sneaked into the final at the first time of asking.

Finals tend to be played at an intensity level greater than that of any matches in the lead up, even semi finals. Birr have been down this road many times but it’s a whole new experience for the Kilcormac Killoughey men. They’re a young team who have come a long way in the last six months. I look forward to a cracking final but I feel this may be a bridge too far this time. Still, no one saw Coolderry’s 2004 final win coming.

[Offalys Future]

An excellent read there

[Biffo7]

Great report on the final but just to clear a couple of things about K/K. Neither Stephen Byrne nor Kevin Saddler has left the panel, both are out with long term injuries. Also rumours going around that rigney will start and leonard will replace guinan at corner back.. Should be a good game.

[Lone Shark]

Great read. I feel woefully inadequate now, but here's what I put into the Indo anyway.....

As Sunday's county final approaches, observers could be forgiven for thinking that we've been down this road once or twice before. Kilcormac/Killoughey have supposedly been the coming team in Offaly hurling for the entire decade, ever since that unprecedented run of success in the mid 1990's when in a seven year spell the club won six minor championships and six under-21 crowns. Though obviously many of those players have come and gone since then, it feels that we've been waiting ever since for the double K's to make good on all that potential.

The 2002 county final was the day when it was all supposed to come good, but Birr were All Ireland Champions at the time and for good reason. They demolished the young pretenders in some style on their way to retaining their county, provincial and All Ireland titles, severely setting back Kilcormac/Killoughey's development in the process. Fast forward three years and the two clubs would met again in Banagher, with Kilcormac/Killoughey in fine form and quite a few pundits suspecting that this time they had the measure of Birr. Without all the pomp and ceremony of a county final, only hurling would decide the winner and K/K's talent was considered by many to be good enough to carry the day. Yet again Birr dished out a lesson in the art of hurling and with that fourteen point defeat K/K slipped back into the chasing pack, well adrift of Birr and Coolderry and lacking the heart and unity of purpose that was visible in the efforts of clubs like Kinnitty and Lusmagh when facing up to the big boys.

So what to make of next Sunday - is it third time lucky, or have we seen it all before?

A big point in Kilcormac/Killoughey's favour is that they appear to be still improving. draws and subsequent replay wins over St. Rynagh's and Kinnitty have given their season a very progressive feel, while the wins over Coolderry and Rynagh's will have done no small amount of good for their self belief when taking on clubs with a bigger reputation. In the absence of the imposing presence of reputed superstars, a noticeable team ethic and common sense of purpose has been nurtured and flowered under John Leahy's management. They'll take the field with the upper hand in aspects such as physique and fitness and their modern power and running based game will be a very interesting contrast with the traditional style of hurling that will undoubtedly be employed by Birr under Padjoe. As such Sunday's final possibly has deeper resonance, as it could be a clear pointer to the type of game that would be best employed by Joe Dooley and his selectors in 2008 with the county team.

If the praise of Kilcormac/Killoughey above seems somewhat circumspect, it's not without cause. Their ability to maintain their self belief will be tested at some point next Sunday, but if Birr can get in for goals that self belief will be shaken to the core - and it's hard to see how K/K can prevent goals. They have run up some big totals this year, with an average winning margin of eleven points in their five victories. Despite this, in 2007 as a whole they have only scored 14 goals while conceding 13, almost as many. Some would interpret this as a good sign, that their high tallies have been fair reflections of their dominance, but this writer is more concerned by the fact that if relatively lightweight attacking units like Ballyskenach, Drumcullen, Tullamore and Kinnitty have all scored goals on K/K this year without a starting county forward between the four of them, the potential damage that could be done by a more celebrated Birr attack is extensive.

However we've yet to look at this from the other angle - are Birr creating enough chances to raise those green flags, and more significantly, are they playing well enough to drive home that advantage in the five minutes immediately afterwards when their opponents will be at their most vulnerable? The last decade and more suggests that the answer to that is obvious: it is Birr after all. Having said that, the evidence of 2007 suggests that things mightn't be quite as straightforward. Up until the semi final against Coolderry, Birr had gone three matches without a goal from open play, while their starting forward unit in that game really only contained one player - Michael Dwane - who would have the pace to open up K/K. Though players like Brian and Simon Whelahan or Paul Molloy are heavily endowed with hurling craft and vision, the modern game usually requires a burst of pace to break the last line of defence and create the high percentage goal chances and in that regard K/K's net might just survive this game intact.

Even if the twine was to rattle at any stage, nothing Birr have done so far this year suggests that they are capable of the ten minute bursts of clean crisp hurling that traditionally used to break teams in domestic games in Offaly. After their first outing of the year against Kinnitty when it was business as usual, Birr have been labouring through their matches and giving teams every chance to knock them off. Coolderry, Seir Kieran and Shinrone all had chances, and though none were taken, Kilcormac/Killoughey might just be good enough to close it out if the opportunity presents itself.

But then, we've been down this road before, and if the county football final taught us nothing else, it's that tradition and experience counts very heavily on the big day. Birr to win. Probably.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Continuing the build up to Sunday. . .

Sunday will see the fourteenth meeting of Birr and Kilcormac Killoughey since the Kilcormac and Killoughey clubs amalgamated at the start of 1987. At the time Birr were also emerging from a very lean spell for them.

Kilcormac Killoughey actually won the first clash between them in 1988. I don’t have the score to hand but from memory they won something like 5-12 to 2 (or maybe 1) –15.

Birr have won each of the twelve matches since. Details as follows: -

1990 Birr 2-10 Kilcormac Killoughey 0-7 (SEMI-FINAL)
1992 Birr 3-11 Kilcormac Killoughey 4-5 (group round 4)
1993 Birr 3-12 Kilcormac Killoughey 1-7 (group round 4)
1994 Birr 1-17 Kilcormac Killoughey 0-12 (group round 3)
1999 Birr 1-12 Kilcormac Killoughey 1-9 (group round 3)
2000 Birr 0-18 Kilcormac Killoughey 0-5 (group round 5)
2001 Birr 0-18 Kilcormac Killoughey 0-10 (group round 1)
2002 Birr 3-12 Kilcormac Killoughey 2-7 (FINAL)
2003 Birr 2-18 Kilcormac Killoughey 3-13 (SEMI-FINAL)
2004 Birr 0-15 Kilcormac Killoughey 0-12 (group round 3)
2005 Birr 2-18 Kilcormac Killoughey 1-7 (group round 2)
2006 Birr 0-18 Kilcormac Killoughey 1-10 (SEMI-FINAL)

I'll get me anorak. . .

[Bord na Mona man]

In 5 of the last 7 meetings, Birr have hit 18 points...

[Rynaghs Biffo]

In 5 of the last 7 meetings, Birr have hit 18 points...

...and K/K have only once scored more than 18 points in their meetings

[Loughers]

What time is throw in?

[kinnittyman]

Well lads all roads lead to Tullamore(!!!!!) for the county hurling final on sundat and i think there could be a huge crowd at it. And the reason is thats its a novel pairing and the underdogs are in with a genuine chance of taking the honours. Realistically if K/K play to their potential they have a chance of upsetting the form book but here within lies the crux. Will they play to their full potential on the day when it matters most. Birr have been here so many times its second nature to them and lets be honest here on their day their still the best team in the county. Conor Mahon and Eamon Lee can provide the platform for good ball and scoring opportunities but the birr midfield could just sit deep and put up a cul de sac around their half back line to couneract this. K/K also gave away so many goal chances in the two games against us it was unbelievable and no doubt Birr would punish this. The K/K forwards are well capable of getting scores and big performances are a necessity from Ciaran Slevin and Peter Healion as they seem to be the biggest threat. Daniel Currams should start but i cant see John Leahy dropping Martin Murray for this. Some experienced heads are required. Anyways my tip is Birr by 5 or more and il put my score on that.

P.S I have to completley disagree with Offalys Future on his comment that K/K are the future of Offaly club hurling. How can you possibly say that about a team that has never won a county final and unquestionably has had the underage success to form a solid foundation?? Baffling to say the least.

[Lone Shark]

P.S I have to completley disagree with Offalys Future on his comment that K/K are the future of Offaly club hurling. How can you possibly say that about a team that has never won a county final and unquestionably has had the underage success to form a solid foundation?? Baffling to say the least.

The truth probably lies somewhere between the two views. A resurgent K/K with four or five players making a real contribution to the county panel is probably the most realistic immediate improvement that could be made to our playing base. It's not as if there are a range of top class players knocking on the door elsewhere - one or two maybe, but in terms of real untapped potential K/K is the main club in Offaly that hcould be doing a lot more.

Having said that, there is nothing definite about it. At the risk of sounding like a cliché, Sunday will tell a lot.

[kinnittyman]

My understanding of it is that OF is saying that K/K are going to dominate club hurling in Offaly to a similiar extent that Birr have done. Now lets be realistic here-K/K have got to 2 county finals in their existance and now we have someone saying that they are going to enjoy a period of dominance and this is the same club that in a 7 year period in the 90's won 6 out of 7 minors and 5 u21's in a row and could only reach one county final that they never looked like winning. Their underage to senior success ratio doesnt exactly fill me with fear. If i had to wager who would win more county finals in the next 10 years either K/K or Birr id put the house on the green and reds.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Continuing the build up, herewith the Irish Examiner's report on the 2002 final between Birr and Kilcormac Killoughey.

Birr 3-12 Kilcormac/Killoughey 2-7

By Jim O’Sullivan AGAINST different opposition, Kilcormac/Killoughey might at least have been competitive over a longer period in yesterday’s Offaly county hurling final in St Brendan’s Park. But considering the overall strength and vast experience of reigning All-Ireland club champions Birr, it was no surprise the game was as good as decided before half time.

All that was required of Pat Joe Whelahan’s team to complete the four-in-a-row was to maintain their consistency through the second half and this they managed with little difficulty.

On a day when Birr celebrated their 17th triumph (winning twice last year, after the 2000 final had been delayed by foot and mouth), the real satisfaction for manager Pat Hoe Whelahan was in retaining the title.

“It was our first time to win the county after winning the club (three times),’’ said Whelahan, who won five medals in succession with St Rynagh’s in the 1970s.

“Before the final we had only about seven sessions. We did no real training apart from a few matches. I kept them very fresh and you could see in the last 10 minutes we looked a bit weary. It was a tough enough game and you could see that a big crowd came to see us being beaten.’’

Johnny Pilkington agreed that the retention of the championship had been the big motivation this year. “The two-goal gap we opened up early on was the difference. Kilcormac were unfortunate to concede three goals in the first half. If it had been a draw at half time it would have been totally different,” he observed.

Back in 1907 Kilcormac contested their only final when they lost to fellow parishioners Killoughey and it was only in 1986 the teams amalgamated. Twice semi-finalists against Seir Kieran in the 90s and successful at
under-age level in recent years, they approached yesterday’s game with a degree of optimism. And it seemed to be justified when they were level at 1-3 each, after 13 minutes. But, as things turned out, it flattered them.

Rory Hanniffy and Liam Power goaled for Birr in the 19th and 23rd minutes and the holders moved into a position of supremacy from which they were never going to be toppled.

Hanniffy got his goal after Simon Whelahan won the ball against two defenders to cleverly played it into his path. The other came after county goalkeeper Stephen Browne made a good save before the ball was kicked over the line in a scramble.

Kilcormac/Killoughey defended well, with Seamus Spain and John Flaherty impressive on the left flank and Mark Hand doing well at centre-back. However, apart from free-taker John Leahy looking promising in early attacks, the attack posed no real threat. It wasn’t just that they were up against a very experienced defence, in which Joe Errity and Brian Whelahan were commanding in the centre, more that they lacked real penetration overall.

It was 3-4 to 1-4 at the interval, and while the challengers introduced two new forwards on the resumption and added a third within three minutes, there was to be no real change in the trend of the game. Martin Murray was one of their few stars at midfield and Colm Cassidy came more into the game at wing-forward. But Birr were so much in control they never really came under pressure.

Apart from Niall Claffey, outstanding at right-half for the champions, goalkeeper Brian Mullins’ handling of the ball under pressure was superb. And with solid performances from the likes of Johnny Pilkington, team captain Gary Hanniffy and crafty Simon Whelahan, Kilcormac/Killoughey made no worthwhile progress. Nevertheless, they showed admirable commitment and it was notable that Mullins denied substitute Ronan Sweeney a certain goal in the 53rd minute before David Gleeson, another substitute, scored a consolation goal in injury time.

Former star Brendan Keeshan, refereeing his first final after being involved for only four years, did an excellent job.

Scorers for Birr: S Whelahan 1-5 (0-4 frees); R Hanniffy and L Power 1-0 each; G Hanniffy 0-2; M Dwane, D Hayden, J Pilkington, P Molly and Brian Whelahan (free), 0-1 each.

Kilcormac/Killoughey: J Leahy 0-4 frees; M Hand 1-0 free; D Gleeson 1-0; C Cassidy 0-3 (0-2 frees).

BIRR: B Mullins; G Cahill, J Errity, JP O’Meara; N Claffey, Brian Whelahan, D Franks; Barry Whelahan, J Pilkington; L Power, G Hanniffy (capt), R Hanniffy; D Pilkington, P Molloy, S Whelahan. Subs: D Hayden for Power (42nd minute); M Dwane for D. Pilkington (injured, 50th).

KILCORMAC/KILLOUGHEY: S Byrne; J Flynn, H Gilmartin (capt), S Spain; K McConville, M Hand, J Flaherty; M Murray, K Rigney; P Cummins, T Spain, C Cassidy; J Leahy, G Healion, P Leonard. Subs: J Wynne for Leonard and M Leonard for Healion (second half); A Kenna for T Spain (33rd minute); D Gleeson for Cummins (49th).

Referee: B Keeshan (Shinrone).

[Offalys Future]

thanks Lone Shark for clearing that up somewhat.

as for this

My understanding of it is that OF is saying that K/K are going to dominate club hurling in Offaly to a similiar extent that Birr have done. Now lets be realistic here-K/K have got to 2 county finals in their existance and now we have someone saying that they are going to enjoy a period of dominance and this is the same club that in a 7 year period in the 90's won 6 out of 7 minors and 5 u21's in a row and could only reach one county final that they never looked like winning. Their underage to senior success ratio doesnt exactly fill me with fear. If i had to wager who would win more county finals in the next 10 years either K/K or Birr id put the house on the green and reds.

Stop living in the past will ya.
And maybe all that talent is only starting to come through now with a good manager. kk always had plenty of potential in their club. Thankfully they got rid of a few lads that were bringing the club down.

I would certailnly put a wager on with you there.

Its the mentality of lads like you that annoy me.
KK are the future. Stop living in the past for chriest sake.

[kinnittyman]

I actually couldnt be bothered arguing with you. And im actually going to refrain from posting comments on anything you say from here on in. What is the story with this confrontational style u adapt for every discussion. Its not exactly endearing il tell you that.