U-21 hurlers with a seemingly golden opportunity

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:36 pm

I see last night Kilkenny struggled to eke out a five point win over Laois - but for a half fit Richie Power coming off the bench to save the day, it looks like their goose would have been cooked. I wouldn't like to say for certain, but I think himself, TJ Reid and Eoin Guinan are the only senior panellists they have. Obviously just because these lads aren't panellists in Kilkenny doesn't mean they wouldn't be senior panellists if they were in Offaly, but even so it seems to be a moderate Kilkenny, by their own ridiculously high standards.

It's all very well for the seniors to be talking about running Kilkenny close, and wiring into them and what have, all of which I hope happens, but at some level we need a win over these lads. Not a good performance like Laois had, but a win. The minors won't be facing them this year, though I'd say based on the respective performances of the schools in either county that might have been a long shot at best, so it's fairly important that the under 21's make the best of what looks like a great opportunity.

I'd say the Dubs are licking their lips in this grade too - could be their breakthrough year in a few senses......

Bord na Mona man · Post by **Bord na Mona man** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:48 pm

Strangely Dublin only beat Kildare 2-12 to 2-7.
It could be a bit more wide open in Leinster this year.
While Offaly's 2004 vintage wasn't great, our 2005 minors would be definitely as good as Dublin, who won Leinster that year and surely able to stand up to Kilkenny.

Hopefully Kilkenny's production line is coming to an end and Cody will burn out all the older players!

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:51 pm

I think the Dubs were in a no win situation last night in that Kildare had a good few games to find themselves as it were. I believe the Kildare keeper made a few blinding saves as well. It still wasn't a good display, but even so I'd expect that team to have a lot more in the tank as the year goes on. I'd certainly expect them to account for Wexford with a bit to spare in Parnell Park.

Muck Savage · Post by **Muck Savage** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:33 am

I'd love to see them do well in this as it's long overdue. If we went back a few months I was really looking forward to this competition but now I'm a little worried. There are a lot of injuries in the squad right now and I'm afraid that we don't have the depth to cover the 3-4 senior players that are struggling with knocks right now. Any idea of what the team has been playing in challange games up to now? The likes of Mick Verney, Cathal Horan etc. being injuried right now is not good.
I really thought at the start of the year that we'd make the two Leinster finals in this grade, the footballers have done one now the hurlers turn..

Archangel · Post by **Archangel** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:03 pm

I think it's a case of Kilkenny being a bit weakened that things have looked a bit more even. I think Offaly have a great chance, win this and they will win the final.
BTW..good to see a team like Kildare competing, not just taking part.

mykneehurts · Post by **mykneehurts** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:56 pm

Just to add the (very) little bit that I know on this subject. Richie Power is overage so I would assume it wasn't him that came on but probably Richie Hogan who is another great hurler. Not to the same extent as Power but a class act nonetheless. Not a hundred per cent sure bur he could be in the Kilkenny Senior training panel. His brother Paddy is also under-21 and plays in the half back line and I think he is with the seniors too.

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:56 pm

Twas Richie Hogan indeed - mea culpa.

Plain of the Herbs · Post by **Plain of the Herbs** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:43 pm

Reality check lads.
One word - backlash.
Sorry to rain on the parade but I feel Laois putting the frighteners on Kilkenny was the worst possible outcome for Offaly. I think they'll tighten up for Offaly.

turk · Post by **turk** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:42 pm

Kilkenny will hammer Offaly!

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:27 am

Don't get me wrong here - Kilkenny are still overwhelming favourites.

However let's be realistic about this - unless things change dramatically, we are never going to be favourites in a match over Kilkenny for the foreseeable future. We may nick a win here and there (something we haven't done at any level in seven years all the same), but unless something very odd occurs, we will always be outsiders.

However there is a difference between 3/1 outsiders, as I perceive this team to be, and 12/1 outsiders as our seniors are, and as our minors would have been if they had sneaked past Wexford and drawn KK in the semi. Our chances to knock them off are few and far between - this is most definitely a real chance. Obviously this will change if Bergin, Molloy, Bevans, Kenny et al are all traumatised after a 25 point spanking on Sunday, but right now this has to be looked on as a real chance. You can say Laois might have scared them, but if that was last years KK team, do you really think Laois would have been within 15 points of them, even on a bad day for the Cats?

corner back · Post by **corner back** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:56 pm

no way kilkenny should be overwhelming favourites for this one.
they only have one senior panelist, tj reid, on the panel with the next star ub the making, richie hogan possibly due a call up. The team on paper is very average.

Offaly have loads of u21s on their senior panel, including some of their better players. This is a match that Offaly should win and one that should be prioritised by the county as a whole this year

Plain of the Herbs · Post by **Plain of the Herbs** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:11 pm

Sometimes having a large number of under 21's on the senior panel can be counter-productive as far as the under 21 team's preparations are concerned, due to the senior panellists' commitments. They can't train with both the whole time, leaving under 21 collective training severely restricted.

On the other hand, there are ten days between the senior and under 21 semi finals. There were years this decade where there were senior semi finals on a Sunday, a qualifier six days later and the under 21 semi final sandwiched in between.

Still, it's stretching optimism a bit to suggest Offaly "should win" it. It's at a Kilkenny venue as well. Anyone know if there's a concert in Nowlan Park that week? They'll possibly bring us off to somewhere like Thomastown if there is. And I've yet to see a "very average" Kilkenny team at any grade.

corner back wrote:no way kilkenny should be overwhelming favourites for this one.
they only have one senior panelist, tj reid, on the panel with the next star ub the making, richie hogan possibly due a call up. The team on paper is very average.

Offaly have loads of u21s on their senior panel, including some of their better players. This is a match that Offaly should win and one that should be prioritised by the county as a whole this year

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:22 pm

corner back wrote:no way kilkenny should be overwhelming favourites for this one.
they only have one senior panelist, tj reid, on the panel with the next star ub the making, richie hogan possibly due a call up. The team on paper is very average.

Offaly have loads of u21s on their senior panel, including some of their better players. This is a match that Offaly should win and one that should be prioritised by the county as a whole this year

Okay, I was optimistic but this is possibly a bridge too far. One has to remember that just because a player is not on the Kilkenny senior panel doesn't mean that he wouldn't be on the Offaly senior panel, and possibly a prominent member of it too. Eoin Guinan is one example of a player who would without question be on the Offaly senior panel if he was St. Rynagh's instead of St. Lachtain's, while I'd say the same about Reid, Dollard, Hogan, Ruth and probably a few others as well.

I agree that they don't have the "marquee" players that we do, but underage games have a tendency to be decided by your weakest five players rather than your strongest five. I still think that this is a great chance, but I'll still be pricing us up as underdogs in the 3/1 vicinity.

corner back · Post by **corner back** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:36 pm

While any Kilkenny team will be strong, this one is relatively weak compared to the recent hugely talented selections.
Offaly have their best team for quite a long time and possibly for the next few years too.
Dublin believe they can win Leinster this year. They won the equibvalent minor championship.
Offaly have to believe that too. It would lift everything up here if they succeeded. I say best of luck to them.
ps I don't think there is any rock concerts this year so this match will probably be in Nowlan park if it is due to be in kilkenny

Plain of the Herbs · Post by **Plain of the Herbs** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:32 am

For the discussion, I rooted out the minor team which lined out against Laois three years ago:-

Murray; Quinlan, T. Coughlan, Verney; Watkins, Grogan, Treacy; Bergin, Lee; Parlon, Keane, Molloy; Duffy, Cleary

, Egan.

I recall Paul Cleary carrying a hamstring injury into that game, hence his wearing number 14.

Can we expect many additions to this?