Dia léi an Banríon

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:42 pm

Hey, the debate's been done everywhere else, may as well cover it here ....

Seeing as the visit of "dem across de water" is imminent, there has been a fair amount of hype and bluster about the fact that apparently some of the supporters and players associated with "dem" are likely to sing a wee ditty asking a higher power to keep an eye on Betty Windsor and make sure she doesn't trip and fall down the stairs or suffer any such mishap.

While I don't like to downplay the symbolic and historic significance of this, at the same time I would read it as an assertion of our independence and maturity as a nation that we can listen to their anthem and treat it no differently to La Marseilleise. Surely any Republican could be proud of the fact that their song can be played and that we attach no more significance to it than we would to any other foreign nation, that England is no longer anything more than our nearest neighbour.

Anyone here planning on pressing the mute button on the TV when it kicks in?

True Red · Post by **True Red** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:46 pm

I Always press mute on the TV when that song comes on.

Bord na Mona man · Post by **Bord na Mona man** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:06 pm

It never bothered me. Though it is slightly amusing to see it belted out with such arrogant pomposity by the English rugby crew.
We'd never countenance singing a song about any head of state here in Ireland.

A lot of the people who are suddenly getting in on the debate are people who have little to do with the GAA. I'd hate if the RSF and associated underfed scaldies caused another "Love Ulster" type riot on Saturday. They'll naturally get associated with the GAA, which is a shame.

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:35 pm

I'm probably giving too much credit to the media in this country, but you'd like to think that seeing as the GAA have done everything they could to make it clear that they have no objections to anything that goes on in the Stadium on a day when it's rented out, that maybe blame would actually be laid where it should be if and when trouble kicks off.

Normally I'm not a great fan of the GAA's public relations efforts, but they've been very clear that they've handed over a "clean stadium", they've handled the JJ Barrett incident very well, and they've stressed that this is the will of the GAA membership, albeit with a significant minority opposed to it.

If any media outlets choose to associate the GAA with whatever antics the RSF or their Celtic-jersey-wearing hangers on choose to get up to on Saturday evening, that'll be a serious indictment of the entity who reports it as such rather than anything the GAA should worry about.

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:53 pm

yeah id have to agree with you ther LS. In Fairness it should be a sign of how far the country has come that, that anthem can be sang and we will respect it, sing our own anthem and then beat the bejaysus out of them on the Pitch!

the bare biffo · Post by **the bare biffo** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:25 pm

Surely any Republican could be proud of the fact that their song can be played and that we attach no more significance to it than we would to any other foreign nation, that England is no longer anything more than our nearest neighbour.

In Fairness it should be a sign of how far the country has come

Lads, I'm no rabid republican, but just to throw another perspective on things, the statements like the ones above could be labelled as ultimate Free Stateism. If you live in one of the six counties is it so easy to view England as "just" our nearest neighbor. Anyway does Wales or Scotland no qualify as that. And just what do you define as "the country" and how far it has come. We're only a few miles from the border but are we living in a different world.

And what about Declan Browne, seemingly a very nice lad, but if he has reservations, what does that tell you about how the openly passionate "republicans" in our midst feel.

Personally I have an objection to the ditty being trotted out, but once the decision was made to sell the stadium, for short periods, and with good reasons for doing so, more than just the stadium was sold along with it.
Maybe the sole of the GAA is in the parish clubs around the coutry, but it's heart is in Jones Road and on Saturday afternoon it will suffer a mild palpitation. But one which I think will cause no lasting damage.

True Red · Post by **True Red** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:27 pm

I have no real problem with God save the Queen or the fact that it is going to be sung at Croke Park.I dont like listening to it as it smacks of English triumphialism and colonialism.

In fact I dont think there will be much of a protest by the crowd at Croke Park as the rugby fraternity are an indiscriminate bunch.

Speaking as someone that was there for the French match i thought it showcased to the world brilliantly what our amateur organisation can achieve and I consider the opening of Croke Park to be a positive step for the GAA.

Despite this it wasnt the same watching a rugby match on the hallowed turf but I am prepared to take that on the chin as one obeserves the amount of lids that was taken at the gate.

Bord na Mona man · Post by **Bord na Mona man** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:57 pm

Lone Shark wrote:I'm probably giving too much credit to the media in this country, but you'd like to think that seeing as the GAA have done everything they could to make it clear that they have no objections to anything that goes on in the Stadium on a day when it's rented out, that maybe blame would actually be laid where it should be if and when trouble kicks off.

Normally I'm not a great fan of the GAA's public relations efforts, but they've been very clear that they've handed over a "clean stadium", they've handled the JJ Barrett incident very well, and they've stressed that this is the will of the GAA membership, albeit with a significant minority opposed to it.

If any media outlets choose to associate the GAA with whatever antics the RSF or their Celtic-jersey-wearing hangers on choose to get up to on Saturday evening, that'll be a serious indictment of the entity who reports it as such rather than anything the GAA should worry about.

Unfortunately, I worry that it could be different. The various Einsteins will conclude that the England in Lansdowne always passed off without trouble, but England in a GAA ground caused trouble. Therefore the GAA are the explosive element in the formula.

Look at the amount of people who believe that the taxpayer built Croke Park and that it belongs to the people. There's a huge amount of mis-information already in the waters.

All it will take is for a couple of scaldies to be interviewed, by our sensationalist on-the-spot reporters, claiming that they are furious about Croke Park being used by British sports and plenty of people will be accepting them as de-facto spokespeople for all of CLG.

To a lot of people, Republicanism/Nationalism, whether it be Nationalism of the Aran sweater wearing variety, or of the pencil tache Celtic jersey wearing flavour, is roughly the same thing. I would worry about the association being tainted by the actions of a nutty opportunists who have spotted a niche for venting their hatred. I'd much rather they'd feck off and stay well away from events that don't concern them.

Bord na Mona man · Post by **Bord na Mona man** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:11 pm

An example I thought of is when Shamrock Rovers and Bohs fans had a big riot outside the Hill 16 pub a few months ago, the tabloid newspaper headlines went along the lines of: "Fans riot outside landmark GAA pub".

Either by laziness or devious design, I felt the implication was a bit sinister. Most people when browsing a paper will only read the headline. I bet there were a few people who didn't check the content and were muttering to themselves "those gah savages at it again".

Again I'm probably paranoid

, but I think there is element of the media who wouldn't be overly concerned with distancing the GAA from any trouble that might occur.

btw. The Bohs vs Rovers dust up is available on youtube.com

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:14 pm

Bord na Mona Man wrote:All it will take is for a couple of scaldies to be interviewed, by our sensationalist on-the-spot reporters, claiming that they are furious about Croke Park being used by British sports and plenty of people will be accepting them as de-facto spokespeople for all of CLG.

To a lot of people, Republicanism/Nationalism, whether it be Nationalism of the Aran sweater wearing variety, or of the pencil tache Celtic jersey wearing flavour, is roughly the same thing. I would worry about the association being tainted by the actions of a nutty opportunists who have spotted a niche for venting their hatred. I'd much rather they'd feck off and stay well away from events that don't concern them.

I'd rather they would too, but it strikes me as wishful thinking unfortunately.

One would hope that the GAA would be relatively pro-active with this - theyve handled the PR well in advance of the event, with any luck Danny Lynch or Nicky Brennan will have the media community flagged up that they are available for comment on Saturday evening to give an official statement in the event of one being required, rather than Anto the Dub, never seen Parnell Park in his life, being the on the spot opinion.

One would think that any reporter who doesnt have his/her own mischief making agenda would be similarly inclined to talk to a proper voice rather than guy on the street whose hand was throwing debris at the guards only hours previously.

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:33 pm

The Bare Biffo wrote:Lads, I'm no rabid republican, but just to throw another perspective on things, the statements like the ones above could be labelled as ultimate Free Stateism. If you live in one of the six counties is it so easy to view England as "just" our nearest neighbor. Anyway does Wales or Scotland no qualify as that. And just what do you define as "the country" and how far it has come. We're only a few miles from the border but are we living in a different world.

At the risk of having my own membership of CLG revoked for not subscribing to the 32 county Ireland, my standpoint is that until both the the majority of the six counties and the majority of the 26 counties vote for a single nation, separate states is the will of the people, as mandated by the Unionist majority up there and the revoking of articles 2 and 3 down here. Now that's a much bigger debate than the singing of any song, and I'm not sure that there's really much to be gained in engaging in it here, except to say that even those who would be of a much more nationalistic bent than myself would have to accept that the status quo is just that - the status quo.

As for the "countries" thing, it's a close call whether England or Scotland is closer, but what is for certain is that Wales is not really a country in any real sense of the World - whatever semblence of independence that the Scots or our Northern brethren have, the Welsh are no more independent from England that Gaeltacht areas are of Ireland.

Regarding the final comment, we aren't a different world, but we are different all the same. Perversely, in the traditional sense of the world, I feel we're much less Irish than they are, but that's another matter. I guess well see that when a referendum on the North next happens down here, when I'd say the result will surprise a lot of people.

The Border Fox · Post by **The Border Fox** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:29 pm

Just going back to the original point about their anthem,call me what you like but I actually change the channel when they start to sing it. I know all of Amhran Na Bhfiann but I only know the first word of theirs and that's because I haven't got to the remote quick enough

turk · Post by **turk** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:41 pm

Regarding the national anthem i'd like to replicate the scene from Diamonds are Forever where Bond and Miss O'Toole are out on the oil rig and are trying to swap the tape containing Blofeld's instructions for the satellites with some marching music tape.

I'd swap the "uk national anthem tape" in the comms room with something which everyone would find more fun - like DJ Bobo's "Chihuahua" hit from a few years back. Everyone would enjoy that.

Instead of Amhrán na Bhfiann & Ireland's call - i'd play back to back hits from the Vengaboys.

I believe this would be more popular in the long run.

The Biff · Post by **The Biff** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:26 pm

I can listen to any anthems and my blood pressure doesn't vary. My only real comment about GSTQ is that it must be one of the most boring anthems in the world; consider the lyrics on their own (I wont repeat them here). I would expect better from a 7 year old pop wannabe. Thankfully, it must also rank as one of the shortest anthems, at least in its "popular" form without any verses.

I take it that Peter Hain's "kite-flying" about laying a wreath or similar has been well and truly scuppered. NOW THAT would have annoyed me even more. Leave the past alone - Mick Hogan's ghost should be happy enough if he manages to make Johnny Wilkinson miss a few penalties.

ballymanabroad · Post by **ballymanabroad** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:40 pm

Personally I think it is an affront for anybody in the stadium be they English or Irish to have to listen to 'that' song. Yes, it is a sad day on any terrace when the opening chords of 'Ireland's Call' are struck up.

It is a funny sight when you are standing (in Lansdown Rd up until now) and you look around to see all the Green shirt wearing Ulster fans belting out 'God save the Queen' as loudly as anybody here would sing 'Amhrán na Bhfiann'.

I have always looked at it this way. If they are prepared to respect The Soldiers song (as they call it) then I am prepared to respect Lizzie's song.

The Lions tour last year gave me an insight into the minds of rgby followers from Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales. All the anthems (even 'Ireland's call' although after the Otago match it was rechristened 'Lions call' because 'The power of four' was even worse that that Coulter penned abomination) except 'God save the Queen' were belted out. I asked an English guy about it and he reckoned it was because it was symbolic of their colonial mastery over the other three countries/principalities. A compromise was reached with 'Jerusalem' which ever Celt and Briton were happy to sing.