Kilkenny 1-27 Offaly 1-13

[Lone Shark]

I think we're going around in circles at this stage.

(1) You seem to think that the manager is responsible for the behavious of players in their private lives. I believe that that manager can only lead a horse to water, he can't make them drink.

(2) Offaly don't pay huge money to managers, but that's because we can't afford it and we don't get big name managers. Those are the going rates for proven intercounty managers, NOT including guys managing their own county, who invariably do it for a lot less and often nothing at all. I assume you're not comparing it with what Babs gets in Tipperary or Tony Considine in Clare.

(3) If Donal O'Grady manages Offaly and we don't make an AI semi, suddenly he has one success and one failure on his managerial record. He becomes the guy who won an All Ireland with a great first XV and every backup support possible, but can't do these things without all those raw materials.

(4) You mightn't regard the lads as glamour boys- the fella going around selling tickets because he thought he was financing the club U-14 team but is now financing a club levy to pay these fellas would.

(5) A new manager imposing a change of ethos on the Offaly players would definitely have to see them twice during the week and again at the weekend. That's before you count trips to see club games, under 21 fixtures, and all the things that John McIntyre DOES go to to make sure he's on top of the players' form.

(6) I'd say if you were to put up a poll on this site, Claffey or Oakley for the number seven shirt, my guess is that you'd be in the minority - comfortably. Claffey had countless chances to prove himself as a county player, he's been playing with arguably the best club in Ireland and he still couldn't do it.


I think we've reached an impasse good sir.

[Offalys Future]

(1) You seem to think that the manager is responsible for the behavious of players in their private lives. I believe that that manager can only lead a horse to water, he can't make them drink.

A good manager has the ability to change the attitude of the players on his panel. Take the Monaghan team for instance, do you think Seamus McEnaney went into the dressing room after the game and said that we were going for a recovery session so tell your wifes and partners we will see them for a meal at 9:30. No - this is what you call planning and preparation. Offaly play sat and then again the following saturday - what recovery will they do? Training probably some part of the day sunday.

(2) Offaly don't pay huge money to managers, but that's because we can't afford it and we don't get big name managers. Those are the going rates for proven intercounty managers, NOT including guys managing their own county, who invariably do it for a lot less and often nothing at all. I assume you're not comparing it with what Babs gets in Tipperary or Tony Considine in Clare.

Offaly do pay serious money for managers, and again if a small percentage of the money wasted on o'connor park was put into the county teams development we wouldnt be in this situation

(5) A new manager imposing a change of ethos on the Offaly players would definitely have to see them twice during the week and again at the weekend. That's before you count trips to see club games, under 21 fixtures, and all the things that John McIntyre DOES go to to make sure he's on top of the players' form.

You make a big deal about john mcintyre going to club games thats why the county board are paying him.
Again and i know i am repeating myself here - every manager trains a team differently so unless you are Donal o' Grady you can not say what he would want to be paid and what amount of training that he would be doing. I'm sorry you cant.

(6) I'd say if you were to put up a poll on this site, Claffey or Oakley for the number seven shirt, my guess is that you'd be in the minority - comfortably. Claffey had countless chances to prove himself as a county player, he's been playing with arguably the best club in Ireland and he still couldn't do it.

A poll oh yes i am sure you would. But does that make claffey not a better hurler than oakley?
Need i not forget and point out the mentality of alot of the offaly supporters - in the game this year against laois we were beating them by 18 points and ger oakley was substituted. He received a standing ovation that you would very rarely see anywhere.
We were hurling against a very poor team, and he hurled okay.
When kk were beating offaly and their players was substituted you didnt see any of that carry on. Different mentality.

I think we've reached an impasse good sir.

I think we are only getting going now.

Oh yes one last thing
Offaly have faced 2 tests this year which they have failed, tomorrow is the 3rd.
On Monday John Mcintyre talked on a radio phone in show for a half hour about tippeary and kk while talking 5 minutes about his own team.
A media man - nothing more nothing less.

[Lone Shark]

(1) You seem to think that the manager is responsible for the behavious of players in their private lives. I believe that that manager can only lead a horse to water, he can't make them drink.

A good manager has the ability to change the attitude of the players on his panel. Take the Monaghan team for instance, do you think Seamus McEnaney went into the dressing room after the game and said that we were going for a recovery session so tell your wifes and partners we will see them for a meal at 9:30. No - this is what you call planning and preparation. Offaly play sat and then again the following saturday - what recovery will they do? Training probably some part of the day sunday.

I'm not talking about players doing what they're told, I'm talkign about discipline in their private lives. I would contend that there is no information or teaching that McIntyre and his team are witholding from the players. If the players choose not to use that information (and I've no idea whether they are or not) then that is not McIntyre're responsibility, it is theirs.

Again I say - we are going around in circles here - you say it's the manager's job to make players behave, I say they are all grown adults and it's up to them. The incentive of getting picked should be enough, and if they can't commit sufficiently they should walk away with the thanks of management and supporters alike.

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(2) Offaly don't pay huge money to managers, but that's because we can't afford it and we don't get big name managers. Those are the going rates for proven intercounty managers, NOT including guys managing their own county, who invariably do it for a lot less and often nothing at all. I assume you're not comparing it with what Babs gets in Tipperary or Tony Considine in Clare.

Offaly do pay serious money for managers, and again if a small percentage of the money wasted on o'connor park was put into the county teams development we wouldnt be in this situation

The level of money paid to managers these days is subjective. In the Liam McCarthy cup right now, Waterford, Galway, Offaly and Laois have managers from outside the county. Damien Fox was a shot in the dark from their neighbours, and I can assure you that McIntyre is not getting anything like what the other two are. As for O'Connor Park being waste, well that's another debate. O'Connor Park will be there long after every player currently hurling in Offaly from u-12 up has long retired, and obviously there is the argument too that how can we try to stay among the elite if our ground has that immediately post-war Berlin feel??

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(5) A new manager imposing a change of ethos on the Offaly players would definitely have to see them twice during the week and again at the weekend. That's before you count trips to see club games, under 21 fixtures, and all the things that John McIntyre DOES go to to make sure he's on top of the players' form.

You make a big deal about john mcintyre going to club games thats why the county board are paying him.
Again and i know i am repeating myself here - every manager trains a team differently so unless you are Donal o' Grady you can not say what he would want to be paid and what amount of training that he would be doing. I'm sorry you cant.

Fine. It's highly plausible that he'd want to do it for way less than what his peers are getting, with none of the backroom support and no underage success since 200 to suggest that the raw materials are there to work with, and all in a county that is famed for being the most impatient with managers in Ireland. Sure. Why not. Makes sense.

(6) I'd say if you were to put up a poll on this site, Claffey or Oakley for the number seven shirt, my guess is that you'd be in the minority - comfortably. Claffey had countless chances to prove himself as a county player, he's been playing with arguably the best club in Ireland and he still couldn't do it.

A poll oh yes i am sure you would. But does that make claffey not a better hurler than oakley?
Need i not forget and point out the mentality of alot of the offaly supporters - in the game this year against laois we were beating them by 18 points and ger oakley was substituted. He received a standing ovation that you would very rarely see anywhere.
We were hurling against a very poor team, and he hurled okay.
When kk were beating offaly and their players was substituted you didnt see any of that carry on. Different mentality.

Forrest Gump said that stupid is as stupid does. Well a hurler is as a hurler does. Niall Claffey is what, 30 now? He's had countless chances and he hasn't done it. Ger Oakley has hurled his heart and soul out for Offaly every time he's taken the field, having had good days and bad. Twice I've seen him throw his body on an opponent's hurl trying to make a block when he has lost his own, both in games where we are getting hammered. There are probably 100 hurlers in Offaly more naturally gifted than he is, and undoubtedly Niall Claffey is one of those, but Ger puts it all on the line and for all the times that people say he's a weak link, he has defied it. It's only natural that people applaud that. If Niall hurled with the same attitude as Ger he'd be an All Star winner by now, but he has hurled for ten years under five different managers and still hasn't done it. I would hate for Offaly to be the kind of county that would think higher of a player that failed to fulfil his potential than they would of a guy who put every ounce of energy he possessed into hurling for the county.

I think we've reached an impasse good sir.

I think we are only getting going now.

Oh yes one last thing
Offaly have faced 2 tests this year which they have failed, tomorrow is the 3rd.
On Monday John Mcintyre talked on a radio phone in show for a half hour about tippeary and kk while talking 5 minutes about his own team.
A media man - nothing more nothing less.

Nobody's disagreeing with you that the results have been unacceptable. What we are contending is where the responsibility lies. I would say that a lot of it is down to a low point in the cycle of the players we have available, combined with some poor decisions. It is not all about management making a hames of things.

The fact that a man who works in the media went onto a radio show and talked about what what the interviewers asked him about does not affect his job in the slightest.

[Bord na Mona man]

Excuse the butting in, but if Offalys future must be the most optimistic man in Ireland if he really thinks that at 30 years of age, Niall Claffey will make a significant step up from previous performances and improve Offaly by any sort of measure. The idea the player has been playing within himself for 8 or 9 years and needs a good manager to unlock some unknown potential is far fetched.

I think Claffey acquitted himself well with Offaly and would probably blush at the sort of abilities OF is trying to attribute him with.

[Offalys Future]

Excuse the butting in, but if Offalys future must be the most optimistic man in Ireland if he really thinks that at 30 years of age, Niall Claffey will make a significant step up from previous performances and improve Offaly by any sort of measure. The idea the player has been playing within himself for 8 or 9 years and needs a good manager to unlock some unknown potential is far fetched.

I think Claffey acquitted himself well with Offaly and would probably blush at the sort of abilities OF is trying to attribute him with.

can you please show me the quote where i said the above?
i did not say them and i am certainly not trying to back up Niall Claffey.

If you read all of the topic you will see that it was Lone Shark who mentioned him

[Kevin]

Like reading on the site but it seems that Offaly Future is getting a right slating.
Not really sure why, as he seems to have a lot of good points.

Plain Of Herbs, Lone Shark, Bord na Mona Man, Treasurer.
Why does every time somebody makes good points you have to go and gang up on them.
This sort of attitute is ruining the forum and not giving people that have less than 500 posts to have a say.

If all of you wanted a private forum for yourselves so all of you can say the same thing over and over again. Why dont you set that up.

Whoa! I know this was a little while ago, but just have to jump in here. I do not see how Offaly's Future is getting slated on here at all. He has his opinions to which he is entitled. Others do likewise and theirs' have no merit because they are 'ganging up' on Offaly's Future? Give me a break. Offaly's Futures' posts have been good for this board. I think that would be hard to dispute and I don't think any of those you mentioned would disagree. Offaly's Future has continued posting away, btw.

[Lone Shark]

can you please show me the quote where i said the above?
i did not say them and i am certainly not trying to back up Niall Claffey.

If you read all of the topic you will see that it was Lone Shark who mentioned him

For the record the reason I picked Niall Claffey was that you named him in another thread as one of the guys that you feel have unfulfilled potential and should be on the county panel, along with Stephen Browne, Mick O'Hara, Colm Cassidy and a few others.

[Offalys Future]

yes conty panel.
thats 1 of 30.

As for all the rest of the stuff you have wrote in your last post, i think we are going around in circles. You have your opinion and i have mine.
Just one last thing on the 19th of June i said that Sean Ryan should be on the Offaly team as we lack players with his pace and your response was :

"Sean Ryan is a great young lad that I’ve a lot of time for, but he looks like he’s just about holding his place on the Birr team. He’ll be an intercounty footballer a lot quicker than he’ll be an intercounty hurler."

Have you any comment to make regarding this?

[Lone Shark]

yes conty panel.
thats 1 of 30.

As for all the rest of the stuff you have wrote in your last post, i think we are going around in circles. You have your opinion and i have mine.
Just one last thing on the 19th of June i said that Sean Ryan should be on the Offaly team as we lack players with his pace and your response was :

"Sean Ryan is a great young lad that I’ve a lot of time for, but he looks like he’s just about holding his place on the Birr team. He’ll be an intercounty footballer a lot quicker than he’ll be an intercounty hurler."

Have you any comment to make regarding this?

Yup - he played intercounty football five days later, and intercounty hurling 11 days later. It was over twice as quick....

I've no idea of the politics within Birr hurling club, I'll happily admit that his difficulty in holding down a regular spot with them over the last year or two led me to believe that he had a long way to go. I'm very happy to say I was wrong and that he looked right at home playing intercounty hurling last sunday.