Offaly v Wexford - NHL Division 2 Final (03/05/2009)

[Square Cab]

Does Shane Dooley have the necessary bottle to be our free taker in big games ? Why the management team was so slow to make changes in the forward line when it clearly was not working ? Are Bergin & Dooley untouchables & no matter how they perform they will be left on ?

This pretty much sums up my feelings on yesterdays game. The guy clearly doesnt have the bottle for free taking on the big day. Its all well and good driving over frees when your team is winning by ten points but missing them in closely contested matches against strong opposition where every scoring opportunity must be taken is just not good enough. As for leaving Bergin and Dooley on, its like we're gone back in time where the local u12 manager would never take off his young lad no matter how bad he was. Shane was poor (by his own high standards) against Antrim and again yesterday. He should have been taken off in both games. On a positive not I thought Kenny and Franks were excellent. We are a far better team with these guys in it.

On a side note, what a shower of dopes the gaa really are. We arrived in Semple at ten to two yesterday and there must have been a couple of hundred people queing to buy tickets at seven or eight ticket hatches while fiftheen turnstiles were idle. And whatever it is about the people in those boths but they are the slowest people at handing back change. There were offaly fans at the end of that que and id say they were lucky if they saw the last twenty mins of the match such was the slowness of those ticket sellers. I actually thought there must be a huge crowd inside if there's this many outside........ha!.....the place was feckin empty. What a complete joke. The Gaa cant afford to treat supporters like this. Whats the problem with paying at the turnstile? Its hard enough to attract people to the games without treating them like gobshites by making them que outside while the game is on. I even know of a few guys who arrived at just before two, saw the que and decided to watch the match in a nearby pub.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Firstly I would like to extend my congratulations to the Offaly team upon yesterday's victory. It was a game of huge importance and to be back in Division 1 for 2010 will improve this young team in a way Division 2 never could. Following the defeat against Wexford earlier in the League it was quite a result to turn around although it is no more than what this team is capable of. Well done all.

While very happy with the victory yesterday I echo the concerns of other posters. Our defence, Brian Mullins included, and Brendan Murphy were outstanding throughout the whole game, especially in the second half. It's hard to name one out of the back six who outperformed the others so they should all take a collective bow.

Our forwards however are a different story. To only score two points in the second half tells its own story. Derek Molloy apart (fantastic worker who scored a couple of great points of a much improved left side), the rest of the attacking unit had a day to forget. It's one thing to be hitting wides (some of our misses were sinful) but it's another to be too loose to your man and letting the ball come out of the opposition defence too easily. Too often yesterday the Offaly defence cleared ball only to see it return with minimal delay. This is a problem that first reared its head against Kilkenny last year but to see it persist against a team such as Wexford is worrying to say the least. The manner in which the Tipperary forwards swarmed the Kilkenny defence was something to behold and something our team should learn from. Indeed one of the Premier county's goals came from James Ryall dropping the ball as a result of being shouldered so hard.

Scores also seemed very hard to come by for our forwards yesterday and, when compared to the second game, our ability to confidently stroke over a ball from the 40 was sorely lacking. Some of the forwards (no need to mention names, we and they know who they are) really had shocking games and have been underperforming for quite a while now. Shane Dooley's free taking creaked but in fairness so can Brian Carroll's so who is the other option?

All these observations of the forward unit are well and good provided there are solutions apparent. However, one glance at the substitutions listed in the match programme reveals that numerically we are short on options. Of the substitutions listed, only three were forwards (Coughlan, Egan and Parlon). Compare this to the number of corner backs and other defenders listed among the substitutes and it becomes apparent that an imbalance exists. Furthermore, If injuries to were to occur we could find ourselves very short on cover.

Nonetheless, given how poor some of the forwards have been for some time it is hard to understand why the three forward substitutes listed above have not been given more of an opportunity to prove themselves. I'm not saying these players would be the panacea to our ills (they may be but how is anybody to know) but at the very least they deserve a chance and to be frank they could not be inferior to some of the players who have been playing for the entire league. The fact that some of the forward six seem to be untouchable is very worrying. The inclusion of Colm Couglan would at the very least provide another option for the free taking.
Another option to be considered is Diarmuid Horan. Given how well the defence performed yesterday, perhaps he should be released into the forwards whenever he returns from injury.

With regards the team listed by Joe Dooley, as expected I am disappointed that Hanniffy was not midfield. However what really irked me was the 'decoy' team named in the programme and released in the days before the game. This practice of misdirection, no matter who employs it, annoys me.

Finally, the second game showed how far both Offaly and Wexford have yet to go to be competitive at the business end of the championship. Much improvement needs to be done. However this is not an impossible task. Both Offaly and Wexford were very competitive against Waterford last year while Offaly beat Limerick. Outside of Kilkenny, both Offaly and Wexford are more than capable of matching any other team. All that is required is the right attitude and a lot of hard work between now and those games. So let it begin and roll on the Championship.

[Real Faithful]

Great result yesterday, and congratulations to the team.
However result aside anyone who was at the match will have to agree this was a truly pathetic effort from 5 of our 6 forwards. Apart from Molloy, and in fairness Joe Brady continued to battle and won some ball, the body language of these guys was terrible. Ball after ball was played in and they were continuously behind their men. Joe Bergin had an horrific second half, he had the ball in his hand once in the half hour. Wexford were poor yesterday and we should have beaten them well Shane Dooley on yesterday's performance has very little to offer if this is his level of free taking under pressure.
On the plus we defended well and in the second half Murphy in particular was a man possessed, clearing ball after ball.
Joe Dooley has serious work to do on his forwards, but he has 3 weeks, with the pressure off after Keeper, backs, midfield and Molloy delivered Div 1 status!

Agree totally. Great result - mixed performance.

Our defence looks tight again with Franks and Kenny returning. Paul Cleary played well yesterday but would still have concerns about his lack of pace. If Diarmuid Horan was fit I would have him in instead.

Undecided about whether Rory should be wing back or midfield ( same obviously applies to Kevin Brady ). Both playing well at the moment but would love to see Hannify and Murphy in midfield together.

Murphy yesterday, particularly in second half , was outstanding. Only his second game of the year so hopefully he will improve even more.

The forwards however remain a problem. I thought Joe Brady played well. He has a role to play at centre forward and does it very well. Molloy put in a great effort and was rewarded with a few great points. I thought Brian Carroll was okay but we all know he can do better.

Currams, Bergin and Dooley had a poor time of it. But I would say they are all young players and inconsistency of performance is something you always get with young players. Joe is a prime example. He can give all star performances one day and be anonymous the next. I would say if we believe these players have the ability then we need to persevere with them.

In years gone by plenty of good players have gone by the way side because management didn't give them time - examples would be Hanrahan and Gath ( there are plenty more ).

The other side of it is is there many better options on the bench ? Parlon did well when he came on yesterday and I think its probably 50/50 between him and Currams

I have to ask though if Shane Dooley is having a bad day on frees why doesn't Brian Carroll take a few ?

[Bord na Mona man]

I’m hoarse and sunburned today. I’m delighted that Offaly won and survived.
In 2006 against Wexford, Offaly couldn’t hold out against the wind in a similar sort of encounter. Times are changing I hope.

The Offaly defence was heroic, though lets not forget that Wexford’s forward line are more mongrel than pedigree. David Kenny showed his value to Offaly as the high ball route yielded very little for Wexford. Unlike the last day in Wexford Park, when any loose ball broke around the square, Offaly defenders were quickly on top of it.

The sideline were a bit slow in making the changes in the forwards. I would have brought on Cathal Parlon earlier as he is the sort of player who could have lead the charge into the wind.

I don’t think Shane Dooley is suited for any position in the full forward line. He doesn’t have great abilities to gain possession and shoot under pressure. Out on the half forward line he would be better off as he could pick up more loose ball and shoot. He is a decent enough shooter from distance, but he doesn’t have that ruthless streak nearer the goals.

The Division 1 final showed the big step up in intensity Offaly need to make.
To take on Kilkenny we would really need to able go out and match them in the muscle department like Tipp did for a lot of the game.

However at last there seems to be real progress on the Offaly team. There is consistent selection – I think 14 of that team started against Limerick and Waterford last year. Less of the non-stop tinkering that has gone on in years gone by. The improvement of players like Derek Molloy is great to see.

There was great craic on the terrace. You could hear the “uibh fhaili” chant being picked up a couple of times on the effects mic. I even pilfered a souvenir sliotar for myself from Brian Carroll’s first half point! We also got a bird’s eye view of James Ryall being absolutely cemented by Micheal Webster’s shoulder charge for the first Tipp goal. Take out of the year so far!

P.S. Aany views on the point that was awarded for Wexford when Mullins brought down the ball from over the cross bar?
For me it was never a point and it could have cost Offaly a place in Division 1.
Anyone with a better view on it?

[Bord na Mona man]

On a side note, what a shower of dopes the gaa really are. We arrived in Semple at ten to two yesterday and there must have been a couple of hundred people queing to buy tickets at seven or eight ticket hatches while fiftheen turnstiles were idle. And whatever it is about the people in those boths but they are the slowest people at handing back change. There were offaly fans at the end of that que and id say they were lucky if they saw the last twenty mins of the match such was the slowness of those ticket sellers. I actually thought there must be a huge crowd inside if there's this many outside........ha!.....the place was feckin empty. What a complete joke. The Gaa cant afford to treat supporters like this. Whats the problem with paying at the turnstile? Its hard enough to attract people to the games without treating them like gobshites by making them que outside while the game is on. I even know of a few guys who arrived at just before two, saw the que and decided to watch the match in a nearby pub.

I think realistically tickets at the stiles are the way to go.
One thing I am never comfortable with is cash at the gate.

Too often I have seen the official attendance being given as more lower than what seems to be in the ground.
Many is the time I have paid into grounds only for the man behind to get in for free by giving his friend on the stile the wink.
At least with ticketing, the money and the number of stubs has more chnace of tallying.

I heard that down in Cusack Park in Ennis they introduced ticket entry with pre-purchasing at a booth. Suddenly all the "great volunteers" and "lifelong GAA men" weren't quite as interested in working the stiles when cash wasn't passing through their hands. Coincidence?

[black and red exile]

Great to be back with the big boys next year and away from the wastelands of div 2. We should have had about 7 or 8 points to spare at the final whistle to save us having near heart attacks in the last 10 minutes, there were no excuses for some of those misses in the second half. The backs were fantastic yesterday, to be truthful they won the game for us, great to see Kenny and franks back and in great form and Oakley put in a savage 70 mins too. As was stated by other posters Molloy was the only forward that can be satisfied with his display yesterday, his workrate was incredible and he now knows how to take a score as proved when he put over three excellent points yesterday. Now I stand to be corrected but apart from the Limerick game last year when has Joe Bergin actually produced the goods for Offaly in big games, he is long enough on the scene now and it's about time he stamps his authority on close high profile games. As for Shane Dooley, against Wexford in Wexford Park, Antrim in Tullamore and yesterday in Thurles when we needed scores at vital times he bottled a few bread and butter frees when a top freetaker would slot them over without any fuss, perhaps it's time to hand back the freetaking duties to Brian Carroll again as he has more big match experience in taking frees in big pressure games over the years.

[Phoenix]

BnM Man - You were right about the point - the TV replay seemed to indicate to me at least that it hadn't crossed over although the TV commentators seemed, as far as I could make out from my limited memory of Irish, to be reluctant to go against the decision on the field. Great play from the goalie which went unrewarded.

It was so tense watching it on TV - it seemed just like the game in Nowlan Park when we died completely in the 2nd half after building a great platform before half-time. Not scoring for the first 23 minutes of the 2nd half in a hurling game, especially now when players routinely score from way out, is something that is actually hard to do! You'd think, even going through our typical post-half-time swoon, we'd get a few handy frees but not this time.

What do they put in the Offaly pot of tea at half-time?

[black and red exile]

Good point phoenix, to score 2 points in a half,[ 1 from a placed ball ] is shocking to say the least, the likes of KK, Tipp or Cork would go to town on us if we were to produce that kind of performance if we were to run in to any of them later in the year, a lot of work to do with the forwards before we head to Wexford Park on May 30th.

[backofthenet]

It was a good win for offaly...we would need to seriously up the performance for the championship, wexford were missing Keith Rossiter and Darren Stamp who are serious losses. We will not get it so easy in Wexford Park.

The back line and midfield were very good, ger oakley and david kenny were immense. In the forward line Derek Molloy was good, very good in the first half but faded out of it in the second half. Joe Brady done quite well all game, set up two easy goal chances for Brian Carroll and he scuffed them both!! Hes our best forward but he needs to be an awful lot better if offaly are to do anything in the championship this year. Currams, Dooley and Bergin were nowhere to be seen for most of the match...the wexford back line was clearing ball after ball in the second half without an offaly forward within 10 yards of them. I would have thought that joe dooley of all people would have it drilled into the forward line that they are actually the first line of defence. The lack of commitment and effort by the forward line in the second half was shocking, a serious pride in the jersey issue as far as im concerned.

On the Mullins incident, i seen it on sunday game, i think it may just have been over as mullins leaned back the hurl past the posts but it was very touch and go and could have been a vital decision had wexford won!

The ticket situation in Thurles was a disgrace. Could they not sell tickets at the turnstiles?? Rather than having to queue for a ticket and then queue again to get in!! Especially as thurles wasnt a sell out and was never going to be...i can only imagine that there was a lot of thievery going on and they wanted to stop it

[bula bula]

Not much more that can be added but I would be happy that we still won the game while nearly all the forwards had an off day. What is very apparent is that we need a more reliable free taker as losing the amount of scores by failing to take these could be a massive difference later in the summer. Changes came very late in the game and I wonder how the likes of Parlon and Coughlan feel when surely they should be given a chance when there is so many playing poorly.

I myself would give Coughlan a run at the frees as Dooley does not seem to have the bottle for the big games and Caroll has missed a fair amount of chances in big games too. Taking the free taking duties off of Caroll has had no real obvious effect on him and yesterday was probably the worst I have seen him in a while. He seems to have lost pace and he had to turn back every time he tried to beat his man. We will need him to really up his game for Wexford Park.

A lot of work to do with the forwards but also vital we dont get injuries to any of the big defenders as they showed their worth on Sunday. An injury to Kenny, Franks or Oakley would be a massive blow. Oakley was my man of the match and led by example, an example that a few failed to take unfortunately.

Loved Oakleys speech , clearly he had nothing prepared.

[Bord na Mona man]

Loved Oakleys speech , clearly he had nothing prepared.

The quick few words from Oakley were better than him spending 10 minutes thanking the bus driver, the tea maker and the man who sweeps the dressing rooms...then ranting about all the lads who wrote us off.

[athlumneyboy]

Hi Lads

Great win on the subject of Dooley taking frees i have being watching hm since U14 when he missed a 21 yard for Tullamore to beat Birr in the final. i think he gets a little nervous especially at critical times i think Bergin or Carroll should be taking Frees, all saying that Shanes games has improved since Minor and is going through a bad patch at the moment he should have being taken off.

On the down side to the game Offaly haven't the level of intensity of KK and Tipp and i cant see them getting any time soon hope i am wrong.

[bula bula]

Loved Oakleys speech , clearly he had nothing prepared.

The quick few words from Oakley were better than him spending 10 minutes thanking the bus driver, the tea maker and the man who sweeps the dressing rooms...then ranting about all the lads who wrote us off.

You have misunderstood me there. Maybe I should have said, but I liked it exactly for the fact it was short and that he didnt go on and on.

[Bord na Mona man]

Loved Oakleys speech , clearly he had nothing prepared.

The quick few words from Oakley were better than him spending 10 minutes thanking the bus driver, the tea maker and the man who sweeps the dressing rooms...then ranting about all the lads who wrote us off.

You have misunderstood me there. Maybe I should have said, but I liked it exactly for the fact it was short and that he didnt go on and on.

Agree with you.
Too many captains treat the speech like Father Ted accepting the Golden Cleric award.
An opportunity to ramble at great length and settle scores etc.

[Lone Shark]

Regarding Shane Dooley taking the frees, while I echo the concerns about his apparent "untouchable" status, I think that automatically going for the alternatives is to miss the point somewhat. If Shane Dooley were a 60% freetaker all the time, either for big crucial frees or for last minute scores against Kerry when already fifteen points up, then I'd say that his technique was not good enough and that we need to look at an alternative - however this isn't the case. Shane has proven that he has the technique to hit a good proportion of frees, so rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater, the issue should be looking at what it takes to help him deal with those pressure shots?

We're all praising Derek Molloy here and rightly so, his evolution from an awkward young lad into a skilled and dangerous intercounty forward looks to be almost complete. However what happened here was that rather than somebody looking at him and saying that he was too cumbersome or too slow in his striking to make the grade, he has been taken aside, worked on and now we have a fine hurler in our ranks. Equally with Shane, Offaly can ill-afford to jettison a guy who clearly has all the skills needed. I would suggest that his temperament on tough frees needs work, just as his upper body strength and ability to compete physically could do with enhancement too - but that's what we should be doing, not giving up and starting fresh.


Having said all that, I do agree that there are no point in having lads on the panel if you don't consider them worth using when the circumstances are right. Joe Dooley has picked his squad and the "forwards in waiting" so to speak are Parlon, Egan and Coughlan. Now other people might disagree with those three choices, personally I think that they are three decent hurlers with great potential - but as was pointed out above, there's no point in having them there if you're not going to use them on a day like Sunday when so many forwards are misfiring.

Last Sunday, that breeze was worth about five points per half minimum. Allowing for this, at no point from the 25th minute onwards were we significantly in front of what would have been "par" at that time, yet Wexford made their changes a lot quicker. By the time we did make them, it was too late to really turn the tide and give us a sustained spell on top - though Parlon did contribute with a good run and lay off straight after coming in. This is a squad game now and there is no point in continually leaving those cards unplayed.