Hurling Championship

[Over The Black Spot]

Very well done to KK on finally getting over the line. They've done a massive amount of work at underage level over the past 30 years or so and have been coming close at Senior level in the past decade and fully deserve to have their name on the Sean Robbins.

The provincial club draw, while not easy by any means, gives them a realistic chance of making a Leinster final and given their physical strength throughout the field, they may prosper more than most as conditions begin to soften over the next few weeks.

From my younger days of seeing KK hurling and going to matches in Kilcormac, Willie Gorman and Mick Spain were two of the ever presents of club activities. I hope they, and all others who have passed on, enjoyed the day wherever they are.

As regards Rynaghs, while obviously disappointed, they can at least take satisfaction that 10 other Senior teams would have loved to get as far as they did and they have a nucleus of young players who should be back (as long as Oz/Canada/wherever doesn't claim them first)

[llkj]

Not trying to bring up old wounds, or hijack this thread, but I have a quick question. With there being a crowd of 7.7K at the hurling on Sunday, what would have happened if the game was due to be held in Birr?

What is the current capacity of Birr (based on what Health and Safety allow)?
I know there is a rule that if the expected crowd at a game is going to be X% of the official capacity, that the game has to go to all ticket (could be way out, but I think it is around 80%).
Based on the numbers that did show up and the current capacity of Birr, would that have been necessary to move the game to all ticket?

As I said, not trying to spark a debate about what is the best venue, etc. Just curious!

[kinnittyman]

There had to have been more than 7,700 at the match. I would hazard a guess that anyone allowed in for free (U14's etc) weren't counted. The stand seemed to be two thirds full from where I was in the terrace.

I'd have to agree with most of what Lone Shark and POTH have had to say about the match. It did seem to lack intensity at certain times but there can be no doubts the better team won. The Rynagh's brains trust that makes up their management team leaves a lot to be desired. And don't get me started on one of their supporters who had a son playing (we all know who I'm talking about) who to my misfortune landed in beside me in the terrace. He was an absolute disgrace and I know all clubs have guys like this but this idiot brought it to a whole new level.

Hard to pick a good few county panellists out of the game. I wouldn't fancy Ollie Baker's job.

[bracknaghboy]

Not trying to bring up old wounds, or hijack this thread, but I have a quick question. With there being a crowd of 7.7K at the hurling on Sunday, what would have happened if the game was due to be held in Birr?

What is the current capacity of Birr (based on what Health and Safety allow)?
I know there is a rule that if the expected crowd at a game is going to be X% of the official capacity, that the game has to go to all ticket (could be way out, but I think it is around 80%).
Based on the numbers that did show up and the current capacity of Birr, would that have been necessary to move the game to all ticket?

As I said, not trying to spark a debate about what is the best venue, etc. Just curious!

"In September, St Brendan's Park in Birr had their capacity set at 5,500 by the Leinster Council Infrastructure and Planning Committee. This is a reduction of 5,500 on their original capacity.

The Birr club must complete a detailed body of work if they wish to increase the capacity, including roofing the dug-outs, increasing the number of turnstiles, replacing certain seats and enhancing signage."

Sunday Independent
Sunday November 20 2011

To my knowledge some of the work is still ongoing (correct me if I'm wrong). So based on this, around 2,200 patrons would have been denied access to the county hurling final had it been fixed for Birr. The game would have been required to be all ticket as well.

[The Double K]

KK have for a long time the hurlers to win a county senior title but just needed someone to give them the belief that the could win it. Being from the club I listened to people all year since Danny Owens was appointed saying that he wasn't the man for the job, that he would not be able to bring them over the line. I have personnally seen Danny work with under age teams, he is not one for any fancy drills or trying to change the way lads play, he works on the basics of hooking, blocking, catching etc. His work on these areas was non more evident than last years minor final when it was one of the highlights of that game the way KK used these basic skills to defeat Rynaghs. According to my sources (reliable that is) he gave a fantastic talk to the players Saturday night before the game and had in his possession a senior hurling medal from the last club team to win a final in 1907 which he gave to the lads to look at. Jimmy Dunne had them peaking just when needed and Tommy Bracken has been involved in hurling a long time and knows his stuff. They conducted themselves very well on the line Sunday unlike Rynaghs particularly Albert Kelly who did his best to rise them, his celebration of Rynaghs second goal by running down the line and celebrating in front of the KK dug out was completely uncalled for at this or any level in sport. All there substitutions worked out and everybody that was taken off was given a fair chance to prove themselves before the got the curly finger to the line. Trevor Fletcher hurled some of the second half with a broken hand unknown to the management.

[townman]

funny when you think an offaly county final would have to be all ticket, i remember in the early 90's when they came from counties all around
to watch the county final and you wouldn't get room for a pin when the game started, times have change alright, i suppose with two teams
one who never won it the other who have went 19 years without one you get a big crowd.

[DAF]

I would say there was closer to 10,000 there on Sunday.The stand was virtually full so thats close to 7000 and there must have been about 3000 on the terrace.I think there were around 12,000 at the Tullamore K/K final in 2009.How do they calculate the attendance.They must just count the money they took in and divide it by the admission fee.

[The Double K]

Huge amount of children at the game on Sunday, I dont think they are included in the official attendence. I wouls say about 10,00 at it.

[townman]

yes to count in children to, there would be nearly 10'000 there plus the Garda and the few that get in for nothing

[sadtimes2012]

I was in Tullamore on Sunday delighted for K/K .I was wondering why the Garda was on the sideline then i saw he had to come between a Banagher and K/K mentor I've seen this Banagher man on a few occasions behaving like this and it leaves a lot to be desired. As I said before God forbid they would ever represent Offaly. Every club has them...but they should not be on the sideline in an official capacity. It's not a good example putting two fingers up to the K/K dugout after they got the goal at half time if anything he upset the Banagher players more. Banagher have a young improving panel. Why put on a show of minding them at half time by not letting them enter the tunnel with K/K and then contradict themselves by their behaviour.

[Plain of the Herbs]

On the attendance, the stand was about two-thirds full (as Kinnittyman said earlier). The stand holds about 7k, so that would be around 4.5k to 5k. It's hard for me to hazard a guess as to what was on the terrace, as i was on the terrace. Someone who was on the stand would be in a better position to tell. There was plenty of room where I was too. I see DAF estimates there were about 3k on the terrace (I'm guessing he was in the stand), so 4.5k to 5k (stand) plus 3k (terrace) and the official 7.7k might be about right.

Remember when 10k attended the 2009 Final the stand was absolutely full to the Arden Road End and there was room for just a few hundred at the Park Avenue End. Also, there were droves passing behind the 'near' goal for a half an hour before the start that day. That didn't happen on Sunday.

I don't know how they calculate the attendance figure, but children admitted free are still counted going through the stiles. And 7.7k is still over 10% of the county's population. Not many counties will do that this month. They're expecting 7k on Provoview for their county hurling Final, and this is in the county that prides themselves on being God's gift to hurling.

[joe bloggs]

I was in Tullamore on Sunday delighted for K/K .I was wondering why the Garda was on the sideline then i saw he had to come between a Banagher and K/K mentor I've seen this Banagher man on a few occasions behaving like this and it leaves a lot to be desired. As I said before God forbid they would ever represent Offaly. Every club has them...but they should not be on the sideline in an official capacity. It's not a good example putting two fingers up to the K/K dugout after they got the goal at half time if anything he upset the Banagher players more. Banagher have a young improving panel. Why put on a show of minding them at half time by not letting them enter the tunnel with K/K and then contradict themselves by their behaviour.

I don't think ayone from rynaghs wpould try to defend that sort of behaviour(i.e giving the finger), if it happened ( I'll take your word on it as i was in the far end of the stand), but the players coming off together is something that they have been doing, it is not about putting on a show as you call it. If you havent noticed it is actually GAA policy at IC level now so as to avoid any potential agro that may have develop between two teams galloping into a tunnel.

[joe bloggs]

On the attendance, the stand was about two-thirds full (as Kinnittyman said earlier). The stand holds about 7k, so that would be around 4.5k to 5k. It's hard for me to hazard a guess as to what was on the terrace, as i was on the terrace. Someone who was on the stand would be in a better position to tell. There was plenty of room where I was too. I see DAF estimates there were about 3k on the terrace (I'm guessing he was in the stand), so 4.5k to 5k (stand) plus 3k (terrace) and the official 7.7k might be about right.

Remember when 10k attended the 2009 Final the stand was absolutely full to the Arden Road End and there was room for just a few hundred at the Park Avenue End. Also, there were droves passing behind the 'near' goal for a half an hour before the start that day. That didn't happen on Sunday.

I don't know how they calculate the attendance figure, but children admitted free are still counted going through the stiles. And 7.7k is still over 10% of the county's population. Not many counties will do that this month. They're expecting 7k on Provoview for their county hurling Final, and this is in the county that prides themselves on being God's gift to hurling.

I was in the stand. Plenty of room in it. Looking at the teraace, all the crowd was in the top half of it with only a small number past halfway.

[Lone Shark]

I'm pretty sure the official attendance would be correct - even kids are clicked through, so while they aren't charged, they still are included in the official attendance. That wouldn't necessarily be the case in all counties, but then O'Connor Park has never had the same tradition of giving out dodgy numbers that you would get in some other GAA grounds.


In terms of the match, on reflection I stand by my view that it didn't have the "do or die" feel to it that you'd expect from a county final, but I think a large part of that has to go down to the lack of leadership from any of the St Rynaghs players in the middle third of the pitch. I'm not necessarily sure that I'd agree that Gary Kelly was having a great game before he was moved into full forward, but I will say that St Rynaghs were contesting their own puckout a lot better before he was moved. Some of that was no doubt down to the fact that they were playing it a lot deeper in the first half, but still if the Rynaghs stats men identified that he was winning his puckouts, the better move would have been to let Horan back into full forward and let Kelly drop into midfield?

The real lunacy of the St Rynaghs tactic in the first half was that it completely hamstrung Scales and Quirke, who were instead reduced to foraging for primary possession instead of working the space and looking to pick up breaks and beat their man for pace. If Horan had come out around midfield and Healion had followed him, then the tactic would have looked great - but Healion stayed where he was, he hurled a lot more ball than Horan, and yet the Rynaghs sideline persisted with the approach. Worse still, they didn't even trying bringing Scales or particularly QQuirke out the field for a while to bring them into the game? Stubbornness, lack of vision, whatever - maybe this is where you suffer for having a part time manager like Cahill who's trying to manage about four teams? Let's put it this way - I didn't see any great tactical insight from the K/K sideline, nor was I able to pick up on any unusual tactics on their part. However I thought that Slevin, Damien Kilmartin and Peter Healion were all way on top, and it was that platform of dominance in the middle sector that was crucial. After that, the management worked off the basis of don't get in the players' way, and that was enough. In the peripheral positions the game was more evenly matched, but no K/K player was so noticeably second best. Trevor Fletcher had a great battle with Conor Hernon, who was trying to lead by example, but even then Fletcher was dogged and he spoiled a lot of ball, won a couple of frees and won some 50/50 stuff. Overall they broke even, but to use a Ryder Cup analogy, that was a "good half" from a K/K perspective.

Having seen this match, I'm even more disappointed that I didn't get to see the quarter final between Rynaghs and Coolderry. Taking the season as a whole, that one performance still stands out as a huge anomaly. Rynaghs were mediocre in the group stages and they were mediocre here. I feel short changed that I missed out on the one performance where they stepped up. With a young team they should improve, and certainly they didn't need the win as much as K/K did. Many of these K/K players have been at this stage before and while I shared the observation made before the start of the game that K/K were focusing far too much on games that were already gone, I thought they treated the game like just another championship hurling match when they were on the field, which is exactly what they should have done.

I'd agree that there were no revelations here for Ollie Baker - these were two teams that got to the final on the back of a lack of individual weakness rather than any great individual strength. Still, I'd say Slevin and Dan Currams will both be held in higher esteem than was the case previously, so those two alone are a boost.

[kingscounty]

k/k will be busy over the next few weeks , junior football final against clara tomorrow night and first round of the leinster junior football championship on sunday against the meath champions. just goes to show that k/k have put in a great effort this year in hurling and football its not easy to keep the two going at the best of times but to get to a football and hurling final in the same year and win the minor hurling is a credit to the club . best of luck to the footballers on friday and to both teams in leinster.