League and Championship: how the changes affect your county

Muck Savage · Post by **Muck Savage** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:23 am

From Indo
NFL 2007
Divisions 1A, 1B, 2A and 2B will be played off as per previous years. However, counties will be separated into Divisions 1, 2, 3 and 4 for 2008, depending on final placings this year.

Div 1 will be comprised of the top four in Div 1A and 1B. Div 2 will feature the counties who finish fifth and sixth in Div 1A and 1B, plus the four teams promoted from Div 2.

Div 3 will be made up of the four teams relegated from Div 1 plus the four who are third and fourth in 2A and 2B. Div 4 will be made up of the four teams who finish in the bottom half of Div 2A and 2B.

Championship 2007
All counties will compete in their provincial championships as usual. Counties who are headed for Div 4 after this year's League will not compete in the All-Ireland qualifiers. Instead, they will play in the Tommy Murphy Cup. That will cut the number of qualifying rounds from four to three. If a Div 4 team reaches a provincial final, they will not compete for the Tommy Murphy Cup.

Examples
Had the the system been in operation last year, Longford, Clare, Carlow, London, Sligo, Antrim, Waterford and Wicklow would have been ineligible to play in the All-Ireland qualifiers as they finished in the bottom four in Divs 2A and 2B.

Interestingly, Sligo beat Down, who were in Division 1, in the qualifiers, while Longford conquered Derry, who are also a Div 1 side.

Who will miss the 2007 qualifiers?
Based on bookmaker's odds, the following eight will finish bottom of Divs 2A and 2A and will be excluded from the qualifiers unless they reach a provincial final: Antrim, Wicklow, Tipperary, Waterford, Leitrim, Clare, Carlow, London.

This is very unfair across the board for a number of reasons but from an Offaly point of view the best I'd imagine we could hope for is a spot in Div 2 next year. This is probably not ideal but if we were in Div 1 now would we finish in the top 4?
Very unfair for a weak team say Carlow, who could beat many teams in Leinster now. So take for instance they beat Offaly this year go on a loose the next round, Offaly get a shot at the back door but they don't!!! Am I reading this right?

ballymanabroad · Post by **ballymanabroad** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:45 am

Feck, that looks terrible. Every team (with the possible exception of Kilkenny) should be able to compete for Sam. You can make the case in Hurling where only about 13 or 14 teams are seriously able to compete for the McCarthy and historically many of the 'others' haven't fielded a team in the championship but not in football.

The Inter county season should only be about 4-5 months long with the club scene another 4-5 months long. County championships shouldn't start until their county is out of the All Ireland running. So February, March, April, May and June for Inter county games and June, July, August, September and October if needed for the County championships. Leagues can be run off in March, April, May and finished by June then teams will go straight into the Championship. Lads will be fit by then and hitting the hard ground.

For guys who like to play other sports (soccer or rugby) in the off season there will be less of a chance of a clash of codes. Everybody would know when to book their holidays. The only people this will inconvienience are J1 ers and they should forget about GAA for one/two summers anyway.

Professional footballers only have a 6 week pre season. Why do amatuer players need 6 months?

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:44 am

On the contrary, I think it's a step in the right direction - it's a nice idea that every county should have a shot at Sam, but realistically, that's no different to saying that Clonmore Harps, Coolderry and Killeigh should all get a shot at the Dowling Cup each year - by rights you should have to earn it.

Granted the difference between a good and a bad team in football is nothing like what it is in hurling, but ask yourself this - if you split it into two tiers of 16 or so, how many teams in the history of Gaelic Football would have been denied an All Ireland? The only one I can think of that even would have been uncertain would be Donegal in 1992, and even then it's hard to believe that to be the case.

The truth is the current set up elongates the summer intercounty season, which in turn hurts the club season. This was a necessary first step in addressing this.

Rynaghs Biffo · Post by **Rynaghs Biffo** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:41 am

Must agree with LS, definatly a step in right direction. We've seen how the Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard Cup has done for weaker Hurling counties.

If we kept going the way the championship is now, the Tommy Murphy Cup serves no real purpose. There cant be much confidence for teams that are getting knocked out in the championship proper, then the back door and then go on to face another possible defeat.

This puts more of an emphasis on the League which was badly needed and increases the value of league positions.

For me, its all good!

Bord na Mona man · Post by **Bord na Mona man** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:13 am

I think getting back to 4 Divisions is the best step forward. There are several anomalies in the current Division structures. Offaly were unlucky last year having to compete in the Division that provided the 4 All Ireland semi-finalists as well as containing the previous year's All Ireland winners.
One relegation later an we're slogging it out with London and Clare.

However, I'm not so sure about kicking out certain teams from the qualifiers. With only a couple of exceptions, most of them are well able to hold thier own against big teams in the qualifiers. One extra match for the bigger teams in the qualifiers hardly puts the fixtures calendar into a spin. Beating a division 1 or 2 team in a qualifer is probably a better boost to a weak county than a cabinet full of Tommy Cooper cups.

the bare biffo · Post by **the bare biffo** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:23 am

I'd agree with Bord na Mona Man, the league setup is the right way to go, the transition is going to be a little messy however you do it. But not sure about the championship. The most obvious argument against what they are doing is the fact that longfords run in the qualifiers last year would never have happened under this system. Will counties continue to put more importance on their club championship once they are out of their provincial championship rather than the Tommy Murphy cup.

turk · Post by **turk** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:35 am

Agree with Bord na Mona man.
Being forced into the Tommy Murphy cup will just kill off interest in a number of these counties - it's rubbish.

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:43 am

But while last year was great for Longford, it wasn't so great for Antrim, Carlow, Waterford, Tipp, Clare.....

...and at the end of the day Longford won nothing. It was great for their fans and all, but surely if they won some sort of meaningful second tier competition that would too.

Essentially you're saying that teams should be left in in case they go on a run, and manage to give Kerry a game. Again, you could say the same about Coolderry footballers. Who's to say that if they were senior they wouldn't pull off a shock win over Erin Rovers or Tubber and then run Clara to eight points? It still doesn't make it a good idea.

Hyper · Post by **Hyper** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:46 am

LS, have you got your "blueprint" which you posted a long time back? This to me was something that could be implemented. Why can the All Ireland finals not be played in August? I suppose it is an historical thing but sure so is allowing all counties compete in the All Ireland.
I don't agree LS - Clonmore Harps and Longford!!!

Bord na Mona man · Post by **Bord na Mona man** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:59 am

Realistically (at a big stretch) only 7 or 8 teams can win Sam Maguire this year.
I can guarantee you that Offaly won't win the All Ireland this year!
But I still feel we have every right to enter and take part in the qualifiers also.
If you are excluding teams that haven't got chance, then why stop at Tipperary and Waterford?

turk · Post by **turk** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:16 pm

Name one county that has benefitted from the Tommy Cock cup?

Rynaghs Biffo · Post by **Rynaghs Biffo** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:27 pm

In past years teams never benefited from it because it was the losers of losers competition and teams were deciding not to even compete. Instead of 32 teams fighting for one trophy, now the lesser counties have a realistic chance of winning sort sort of a championship.

For most of the players of the weaker counties, their dream is to play a game in Croke Park, this would give them their chance. Remember Declan Browne with Tipperary winning a few years ago?

turk · Post by **turk** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:45 pm

Clare and Tipperary who won this previously have done nothing at national level or have they improved - great - the players got to appear at croke park - whoopee. Fact is that other counties have put more impressive championship runs in the qualifiers (Sligo, Roscommon, Fermanagh, Westmeath) which have benefitted them greater in the long run. Two qualifier wins will set you up with probably a game against a strong county you don't get to play regularly in a winner takes all high profile championship clash. Two wins in the tommy murphy cup and you're playing some other slop team in croke park in a match that no one's gonna watch

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:40 pm

Aye, and all the while interest diminishes in counties that don't have the raw materials to make any progression, because any real tangible progress is unattainable.

The Tommy Murphy Cup is completely different - it's a stand alone competition with no real reward for the winners, whereas if it was an "intermediate" championship in the real sense of the world, you can be damn sure it would mean something to them.

As for our right to play for the All ireland title, well if we had a structure whereby the Provincial championships were still played, and you got to the All Ireland quarter finals that way, then fair enough. However surely we should have the right to play for Sam because we're good enough, not just because we are a county?

Muck Savage · Post by **Muck Savage** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:51 pm

Remember in '97 we won a Leinster from Div 4, and left an AI behind us as we didn't perform against Mayo in the Semi.
That year didn't have the backdoor but say we had been beat by Westmeath in the first round (Claffey scored a point in injury time to level it), I think we'd still be in the dark ages now. That team built a lot of that drawing game. If the backdoor was in play then I'd hate to think we didn't get a shot at it.

This year for example Wicklow could beat Louth, then beat Wexford in to get to a Semi-final which would be a great achievemnet. The get beat there but the two teams that they knocked out are still in with a shot. I don't think this is fair.

I understood that the reason for the back door was for weak counties to get two Championship outings, I understand the side of reducing the games but these lads bust a gut for 8 months a year training and the really only prize they want is a shot at it all.