Offaly Minor Football 2024

[Calcon]

The lads did want to be there this year but roger would not let most of lads play the position where they have played with their club teams for years it’s where he wanted them to play.

[del]

Last night was very disappointing from a performance level and the actual result . I think this is a weak enough group but they were not helped by some decisions made by MGT in the selection of players on the squad . At u 17 and u 16 dev squad level we do not have the best players in Offaly playing
It is true this MGT team didn’t really want the gig 2 yrs ago and they looked for a coach to come on board this year but didn’t get one . To be fair to them they put the shoulder to the wheel
We are reaping what was sowed in the last few yrs at dev squad level
We are too small a county to be closing the door on young lads cause they played a bit of soccer or rugby . Christ these sports help a player become and all round better Gaa player. I think a total review of how these squads are working is needed as this is the first group to come fully thru under the current regime

[private joker]

In both hurling and football players been turned away as they play other sports. Coaches been hamstrung in what they are allowed to do. The way the u20 was treated by not been allowed to train. Were offaly the only county to do this?

[jimbob17]

I made my feelings known about the minor management after last years drubbing against Dublin and was berated but I’d love to see somebody try and defend them now… If that isn’t the last time this management has coached an Offaly team then there’s something seriously awry…

The current mgt team are doing their best the reality is they didnt want to be there this year from what I am led to believe but nobody else wanted it.

I probably defended them last year given they took role when nobody else wanted it and in my eyes, they did fairly well up to Dublin game in 2023.

I'd fully agree that this year was a lot different. I dont buy that argument outlined above! They might be doing their best, but doing their best without the best players who they chose to not include, couldnt be possibly described as doing their best to be fair. There were a number of players that were left off the panel for the wrong reasons as far as I'd be concerned. It was grossly unfair on those that werent even considered for a trial let alone a place on panel.

I dont really know who called them shots but if it was done over managements heads and against their wishes by underage dev committee or otherwise, they should have walked away and not put their name to it. Not doing so suggests they were in agreement with such decisions. They should have been well aware of the talent in the county at this age grade given their involvement through dev squad years. If they didnt want the job, or if they were being compromised by other peoples decisions, if they had anything about them, they'd have walked away after last year and not started at all in 2024 preparations. Is there is a bit of a backdrop here that correlates with a controversial national news story a few years ago in relation to our development squads? I felt at that time, that this was handled very badly. Are these under performances the remnants of those decisions.

Our talent pool is light in Offaly. This team should have been way better than they were. If similar decisions were made by powers that be over 10 years ago there would have been many current seniors that wouldve been lost to other sports. Our two senior Goalies would likely have been lost to soccer, Cormac Egan would've been lost to rugby, Edenderry lads Pearson Egan, Hayes and Farrell may also have been lost and Dylan Hyland would've been lost also before he ever got to minor level. There are others not even mentioned who were in talent dev programmes in other sports that wouldve been lost too. We would never have won the U20 All-Ireland and we would be in the basement of Div 4 as a result of missing out on talent. Of years past, Johnny Moloney, Michael Brazil, among many others would never have played senior for the county football team! Are we OK with this sort of policy? My opinion is that we should not be and we certainly cannot afford to be. It is a flawed argument and a flawed means of doing things, cutting our noses off to spite our face. The best GAA players are often the best soccer or rugby players too. They are professional sports and if a lad genuinely has a chance of making it in those sports, their skills and athleticism would also be of value to GAA. Other counties don't do it as it is grossly naive. Kerry didnt do it to Clifford. Dublin didnt do it to Mannion who were both representative soccer players at underage. It happens nationwide. Win the battle of hearts but dont do it in a way that ostricises talent players for playing competitive sport thatll only help them become better GAA players in longer term.

I get the intention - to promote and prioritise GAA etc, but if our means of doing things means that we are not putting out our best teams at minor and U20 because of stupid short sighted 'rules', and losing comprehensively to the Longfords and Wicklows as a result, then we are only selling ourselves short and kidding ourselves.

[JiminyCricket]

I’d be fairly sure they didn’t call the shots in regards to them players who played other sports and I agree excluding players playing other sports being excluded is short sighted . On them walking for not getting to pick them maybe they felt they would be letting their county down .

In regards to what happens going forward I’m not sure how appealing getting involved is for coaches considering the time that goes into it and the abuse that can go with it and being involved with club teams can be more appealing .

[ah lethimoutwithit]

Theres a fair amount of speculation here in relation to what should and shouldnt be done.

1. Its a bloody thankless task taking on coaching a development squad if half them are unavailable on Saturday mornings as they are away playing soccer or rugby. Sat is when the dev squad games are played.
Trying to get coaches for dev squads is a bit easier for Sat sessions and many club teams dont train at them times, and any decent coach is involved with a club team.
They can't train on a Friday night as they need to be fresh for the rugby and soccer on Saturday! Sunday is out as there's Mass and lunch out with the families.

Too much made of development squads stuff and the flaws. There is decent work going on but uyntil we get better coaching across the board we will continue to struggle. Club level coaching is poor enough also.

People are under savage pressure to run houses and families and there is awful shite in relation to the challenge that is faced trying to coach teams in clubs never mind taking on extra with development squads.

2. Anyway, soccer and rugby players are able to play with their clubs and schools if they wish and if they havn't been picked up by Bohemians and Bucaneers by time they are 16 then they can commit to the minor if they wish.

Cian McNamee was the high profile casualty of the new policy, well, he's turned out alright hasn't he? So clearly he will remain in the GAA system and will be fine.

[jimbob17]

If you throw down "if, then" consequences then you are on losing battle. What would be wrong with doing the dev squads so well that these talented lads choose GAA over rugby or soccer. That's where we need to get to. Rules create resentment. I've seen it work in our favour where elite teams in other sports forced players to choose, and they didn't choose that sport when forced to pick.

If we leave them alone and a few lads miss first month or 6 weeks because of finishing out a season with representative teams in other sports, what is wrong with bringing them in then? We are not talking here about club soccer v dev squads. We are talking about representative rugby and soccer squads that requires good talent - Midlands soccer / Midlands rugby/ leinster rugby- I get it if it's a 50 50 call whether fella is on panel, but we are locking out some of the best lads in the county because of the needless 'rules' that are in place.

[G91]

If you throw down "if, then" consequences then you are on losing battle. What would be wrong with doing the dev squads so well that these talented lads choose GAA over rugby or soccer. That's where we need to get to. Rules create resentment. I've seen it work in our favour where elite teams in other sports forced players to choose, and they didn't choose that sport when forced to pick.

If we leave them alone and a few lads miss first month or 6 weeks because of finishing out a season with representative teams in other sports, what is wrong with bringing them in then? We are not talking here about club soccer v dev squads. We are talking about representative rugby and soccer squads that requires good talent - Midlands soccer / Midlands rugby/ leinster rugby- I get it if it's a 50 50 call whether fella is on panel, but we are locking out some of the best lads in the county because of the needless 'rules' that are in place.

The issue is neither the underage secretary in the MSL or The minor board communicate to try develope a plan where these sports aren't clashing no player under the age of 16 should be made choose one or another, soccer is normally winter months has normally always been a Saturday since the establishment

I can't see why either sporting bodies can't come up with a plan ,

Don't compare getting on an bohs squad with getting on a county minor squad
You have to be the best in the country for one compared to best in the county for another

[Anonymous1]

Theres a fair amount of speculation here in relation to what should and shouldnt be done.

1. Its a bloody thankless task taking on coaching a development squad if half them are unavailable on Saturday mornings as they are away playing soccer or rugby. Sat is when the dev squad games are played.
Trying to get coaches for dev squads is a bit easier for Sat sessions and many club teams dont train at them times, and any decent coach is involved with a club team.
They can't train on a Friday night as they need to be fresh for the rugby and soccer on Saturday! Sunday is out as there's Mass and lunch out with the families.

Too much made of development squads stuff and the flaws. There is decent work going on but uyntil we get better coaching across the board we will continue to struggle. Club level coaching is poor enough also.

People are under savage pressure to run houses and families and there is awful shite in relation to the challenge that is faced trying to coach teams in clubs never mind taking on extra with development squads.

2. Anyway, soccer and rugby players are able to play with their clubs and schools if they wish and if they havn't been picked up by Bohemians and Bucaneers by time they are 16 then they can commit to the minor if they wish.

Cian McNamee was the high profile casualty of the new policy, well, he's turned out alright hasn't he? So clearly he will remain in the GAA system and will be fine.

You were going well until you said development squads can’t train on Sunday because of “mass and lunch out with the families”… We’re not living in the 1950s, training could easily happen on a Sunday if the will is there from the top.

As for people being under pressure to run houses and families, hasn’t that always been the case and wasn’t it a lot worse ten years ago?

Sometimes I think we make way too many excuses…

[joey1001]

Agree about the Sundays mass and family day always more important.. if John is a great footballer but splits his time between other sports and doesn't commit 100% to football then in the end he'll be no good to you.. for every john that gets on the team there are 3 or 4 fully committed (and developing, remember not everyone develops at same rate) players who could be lost because a non fully committed player is taking their place, rather lose the one talented non committed player than the 4 developing committed ones when nothing to say that they wont be able to match this "superstar" in time with their commitment and when fully developed.

[jimbob17]

Agree about the Sundays mass and family day always more important.. if John is a great footballer but splits his time between other sports and doesn't commit 100% to football then in the end he'll be no good to you.. for every john that gets on the team there are 3 or 4 fully committed (and developing, remember not everyone develops at same rate) players who could be lost because a non fully committed player is taking their place, rather lose the one talented non committed player than the 4 developing committed ones when nothing to say that they wont be able to match this "superstar" in time with their commitment and when fully developed.

Dont agree with this sentiment at all. Why does it have to be one or other? We know multisports is the optimal means of elite development at underage level. The science says it but we just choose to ignore it. There are people in the organisation that know this, that are qualified in this whole area.

But We cut off talent because of what else they do. Why can we just facilitate them. It is only 3 or 4 in a given year group? What the hell if these few lads are a bit later coming in for a given year. They are often better than the 'committed ones'. Why are we saying they are not committed when they are. They play with clubs and schools and are their best players. They also commit to play other sports at high levels. That means they are extra committed. The whole argument is flawed. I know some were mad to be asked into minor but the powers that be would not allow it for whatever reason. We are losing games comprehensively that we might not if the best players were included. We have lost out as a result - and so have some of our potential seniors in their development in GAA. It is lose lose as it is!

[joey1001]

Agree about the Sundays mass and family day always more important.. if John is a great footballer but splits his time between other sports and doesn't commit 100% to football then in the end he'll be no good to you.. for every john that gets on the team there are 3 or 4 fully committed (and developing, remember not everyone develops at same rate) players who could be lost because a non fully committed player is taking their place, rather lose the one talented non committed player than the 4 developing committed ones when nothing to say that they wont be able to match this "superstar" in time with their commitment and when fully developed.

Dont agree with this sentiment at all. Why does it have to be one or other? We know multisports is the optimal means of elite development at underage level. The science says it but we just choose to ignore it. There are people in the organisation that know this, that are qualified in this whole area.

But We cut off talent because of what else they do. Why can we just facilitate them. It is only 3 or 4 in a given year group? What the hell if these few lads are a bit later coming in for a given year. They are often better than the 'committed ones'. Why are we saying they are not committed when they are. They play with clubs and schools and are their best players. They also commit to play other sports at high levels. That means they are extra committed. The whole argument is flawed. I know some were mad to be asked into minor but the powers that be would not allow it for whatever reason. We are losing games comprehensively that we might not if the best players were included. We have lost out as a result - and so have some of our potential seniors in their development in GAA. It is lose lose as it is!

In todays game a lad is no good to you unless he is there at every training session and match and focused on that specifically, unlike 25 off years ago, teams play tactics and have ways of playing and you need buy in from everyone on that.. no issue with a lad playing other sports as long as he is full time available for offaly aswell. You could play a long year and turn around in the middle of it the "superstar " tells you he's not available for a leinster semi because he has a rugby match! At minor u20 senior you need lads who are all in!

[private joker]

At u20, yes you should only really have 100% committed players. At minor which is u17 less so. In past cases, one in particular in hurling a very good hurler had a kennedy cup semi final. He was excluded because it clashed either one hurling training. A national semi final vs a training session for a team thst had no formal competition coming up? . A small bit of cop would help. If a lad is missing 50% of training, then let him off.

[jimbob17]

They are 'ALL IN'. Some were just looking to finish out an U14 cup competition in April - playing with their friends. Others were doing similar in other years and told it wouldnt be held against them - but were dropped a few days later because they couldnt attend a football dev training session or blitz because they were playing a soccer cup final with a representative team and that they were fully committed to Offaly after this. They may have missed one or two sessions out of the first few sessions in April. Its not a matter of all in or not. Once they are free, they are all in. You are advocating they dont play an U14 cup final with their friends, the lads they grew up with and that if they do, then they should be prevented with playing football or hurling for county even though they were fully willing to commit fully for rest of GAA dev season - up to October? How is that fair, reasonable or in any way balanced with an emphasis on actually developing our best talent? Now that is dark ages thinking. You could head to the Kremlin for that type of thinking.

These are young players that love their sports. We are coaches that by the means of how we set needless rules and over baring codes of conduct to control everything, turn them off. Like I said, Kerry didnt cut off Clifford, Westmeath didnt cut Heslin, Limerick didnt cut Cian Lynch, Dublin didnt cut off Paul Mannion, Mayo didnt cut off Aidan O Shea or any amount of others - some of whom played underage rugby for Connaught. But we in Offaly do and have a policy to do it. I am astounded that one can try and justify it. They are kids of 13 /14/15 years of age. This isnt inter county senior here. This developmental age grade sport - where other sports actually help their development. Its a matter of a couple of weeks crossover in April. The representative soccer squads are not naive enough to block them playing county finals with their club GAA teams at start of soccer or rugby seasons. Its downright ridiculous to throw away and needlessly turn off the talent tap for sake of these so called 'rules'.

Like I said, we'd never have won U20 All Ireland if this rule was in place 10 years ago as lots of them wouldve been excluded from the system!

What are your rules going to achieve only hammerings to Longford and Wicklow and Carlow at minor and U20 football. It is already happening. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

[jimbob17]

We are not talking about minor or U20 here. We are talking about U14 and U15 development level. That is where it happens and what is being advocated for and players are excluded then also at minor level as a result. That is what is happened with current minors. It didnt happen this year. It happened other years and then they were blocked this year as result of not being involved in previous years. I fully agree that a fella should be fully on board at minor and U20 level but there were fellas who wnated to be involved that were deliberately excluded and unfairly so because of what happened 2 and 3 years previous. They will stiull be some of the best in club championships but were not allowed to represent Offaly. For me, Its dark ages thinking!