Offaly Minor Football 2024

[private joker]

There is a number of issues at development squad level and of who is dictating policy there. In my view they are the wrong people having too much of an unqualified opinion. I brought up this point before and was shot down in regards to S&C and the selection of players.

[Bord na Mona man]

With Dublin in the group and expected to finish on top, second place doesn't look possible now.
Best outcome is for Offaly to put in a much better display against Leix and then give the Dubs a rattle in the final game.

[Anonymous1]

One could reasonably argue that the good underage groups we’ve had (U20 footballers in 2021, minor hurlers in 2022 and U20 hurlers in 2023) were almost exclusively the work of Tommy Byrne’s structures despite Duignan taking all the credit.

The first evidence we have of teams coming through under his structures are worrying to say the least.

[jimbob17]

One could reasonably argue that the good underage groups we’ve had (U20 footballers in 2021, minor hurlers in 2022 and U20 hurlers in 2023) were almost exclusively the work of Tommy Byrne’s structures despite Duignan taking all the credit.

The first evidence we have of teams coming through under his structures are worrying to say the least.

Ah now come on. Whatever happened under previous regime was more likely despite the top table than because of them and positive stuff was probably because of some good talent and some decent coaching. It is true to say it was old regime that appointed that U20 football management, not so sure about minor hurling management at the time but stand to be corrected.

That said, this years and last years minor and U20 football teams lack of real progress is somewhat concerning given all the talk about the 'investment' and resources being applied. We seem to be struggling to beat the Louth's Longford's and Wicklow's the last two years where as in the 10 years previous, while there were some obvious anomalys, we were often competing admirably with the Meath's Kildares and sometimes Dublins at underage championship levels. You'd really have to wonder if management teams are maxing out on the talent available.

[del]

[quote="private joker" post_id=69945 time=1711582681 user_id=9209]
There is a number of issues at development squad level and of who is dictating policy there. In my view they are the wrong people having too much of an unqualified opinion. I brought up this point before and was shot down in regards to S&C and the selection of players.
[/quote]

Huge issues at development squad level . But the PR machine in Offaly Gaa would make people think all is going well and they are doing huge work. We won’t win a game in that minor football championship.
As another poster said we are gone from beating these teams snd competing with Meath Kildare the dubs to been probably one of the weakest minor teams in Leinster under this regime. The cheerleaders in the local press won’t question anything that’s been done by this regime tho .

[Anonymous1]

One could reasonably argue that the good underage groups we’ve had (U20 footballers in 2021, minor hurlers in 2022 and U20 hurlers in 2023) were almost exclusively the work of Tommy Byrne’s structures despite Duignan taking all the credit.

The first evidence we have of teams coming through under his structures are worrying to say the least.

Ah now come on. Whatever happened under previous regime was more likely despite the top table than because of them and positive stuff was probably because of some good talent and some decent coaching. It is true to say it was old regime that appointed that U20 football management, not so sure about minor hurling management at the time but stand to be corrected.

That said, this years and last years minor and U20 football teams lack of real progress is somewhat concerning given all the talk about the 'investment' and resources being applied. We seem to be struggling to beat the Louth's Longford's and Wicklow's the last two years where as in the 10 years previous, while there were some obvious anomalys, we were often competing admirably with the Meath's Kildares and sometimes Dublins at underage championship levels. You'd really have to wonder if management teams are maxing out on the talent available.

I wasn’t directly crediting Tommy Byrne exclusively for those teams but rather his regime/structures/development squads/coaching etc.

Leo O’Connor was brought in as part of the minor backroom team in 2019 so unfortunately Duignan doesn’t even have that as something to boast about.

As was said above despite all the talk of a “feel good factor” around Offaly and improvements in finances, are we any better off in sporting terms than we were 5 years ago? It’s an open question.

Certainly if you think the same way I do which is that Duignan was the beneficiary of two very good teams in the 2021 U20 footballers and 2022 minor hurlers who would’ve developed in the way they did with the same management regardless of who was chairman especially given the fact Covid scuppered most development of those teams throughout 2020 and parts of 2021 then you’d have to ask what has Duignan achieved?

Neither of the senior teams have made any notable improvements in his time, going backwards if anything and the underage teams which can now be directly attributed to his time as chairman which are the last two years minor footballers and hurlers have certainly gone backwards.

I think he’s fully aware things haven’t gone the way he’d planned either which is why he had a bizarre outburst at his own supporters a few weeks ago for daring to criticise the footballers.

Any criticism of his teams or managements are by extension a criticism of him.

[greenairfield]

Anonymous quick Tommy Byrne has taken your phone.

The minor hurlers who lost to tipp contested an u14 Tony forrestial final with 90% of the team who started that day in Nowlan Park.
If you think that's anything got to do with structures at the time in offaly your high it was just a talented group of players.
I'm relation to football I would say clubs in offaly can take the blame for the fall over the last few years the structure and everything MD and co are doing will work unfortunately it will just take time.
It seems some clubs aren't putting in the work in the football side of things and the lack of go games teams is proof of that

[Anonymous1]

Anonymous quick Tommy Byrne has taken your phone.

The minor hurlers who lost to tipp contested an u14 Tony forrestial final with 90% of the team who started that day in Nowlan Park.
If you think that's anything got to do with structures at the time in offaly your high it was just a talented group of players.
I'm relation to football I would say clubs in offaly can take the blame for the fall over the last few years the structure and everything MD and co are doing will work unfortunately it will just take time.
It seems some clubs aren't putting in the work in the football side of things and the lack of go games teams is proof of that

I’m no fan of Byrne either but my point was that a lot of people credit Duignan with having two teams make All Ireland finals (three if you count last years U20’s) when in reality it was as much to do with Byrne as Duignan.

I do think you’re incredibly naive to think a talented group of players just fall out of the sky and don’t need proper structures and development to fulfil their potential coupled with the right managerial choice.

Were the 2021 U20 footballers just a talented group of players? No.

[joey1001]

The biggest problem is lads are still living in the 80s and 90s when Offalys achievements were beyond belief, most big counties weren't winning anything and we had a chance at winning both at times. Too many Offaly people who saw that success are still living in that era and simply cannot face reality. Those were very different times because population and number and resources didn't have any real impact (although bnm and esb had an impact for Offaly) and the game was amateur, there was room to maneuvre, you could put a little extra in and it would make up the difference between you and the big team with the numbers, when they didn't put as much into it (numbers mean more natural talent that's an absolute fact!) if 1 out of 5 footballers in Ireland is exceptionally talented, then there are many more talented footballers in bigger counties. In today's game everyone is putting in everything at every level, it's impossible to gain on the big counties above us. Dublin will have 15 exceptional footballers (1 out of every 5 available at all levels up). Offaly will have maybe 1 with the same stats. You can only make lads so good no matter how much development you have and it's hard to gain ground when the same development is being done with more numbers and more available talent in other counties. The reality is in terms of population we are 24th (top of the bottom quarter).. to add to that we are split 50/50 football and hurling which diminishes the pool even more. You'll notice that in football the league tables correlate directly with the population tables factoring in those counties that have more footballers available because of the lack of hurling in those counties. Of course there are exceptions Monahan, Cavan, Roscommon but keep in mind no hurling of any note in these counties and in the case of Roscommon and Monaghan they had their golden period of players playing and coming through which is often the case when you see the rise of a small team. I said a few years ago they would fall back into their natural order once the golden generation passed, that is now happening and both could potentially be in division 2 for couple years and maybe go up and down and will eventually bed into division 2. If you have a development squad in Roscommon of 50 doing the same development work as 25 in offaly over a number of years, Roscommon will end up with more players going through to senior simply because numbers, no amount of development can change that.. in offaly, there was only 1 Niall McNamee, Dublin is made up of 10 offalys (you get the idea); I can see eyes Rollin' already . What no one ever seems to say on here is what are the goals for both teams, name them out, what they want to see from both teams (now remember goals should be realistic and achievable). All lads do is come on here and criticise but never offer any solutions.. I agree we should be winning against the likes of Longford at minor and u-20 but underage can be funny how it works out. I'm not being defeatist or accepting mediocrity as lads will say, im facing reality. To be giving the idea that we should be achieving this that and the other is simply counter productive and piles pressure on everyone. An achievable (just about) and realistic goal for the footballers to me is that we should be able to compete for the tailteann cup. However, our goal should be to get to division 2 and try to stay there and compete, even at that we are punching above our weight and achieving more than the vast majority of teams. For the hurlers cementing a place in the Leinster championship is the goal. For our underage we want to develop everyone that is available and get a few lads every year into the senior teams, we won't be winning anything at underage level, it's not realistic, we hit a golden patch with the 2 teams in recent years and they are the exception which can happen at underage. Anything beyond that is simply unrealistic, even as it is we're doing as well as any, that's not mediocrity, it's just facts and reality. Unfortunately some are still drunk on the success of yester years and there is simply no comparison. (Although you could argue that the esb and bnm employment in the area had a huge hand in that, which again reinforces my point) You can see also at club level the shift in population has led to teams rising up the grades and others going in the opposite ways, some clubs in north Offaly closer to Dublin and other areas that have grown have gone up the grades, bracknagh, cappincur, durrow, ballycommon, daingean etc.. You see clubs like doon, Shannonbridge and other small west Offaly clubs going the other way (areas that benefited from bnm esb as Offaly did in a similar way). Even Ferbanes golden underage has now dried up. People will say that's going to deep into it or it's too easy to blame population etc but the statistics are there and they are true for all counties with the odd exception. I'd like to see lads here tell me what they expect from senior teams in both codes, what are the goals and expectations of both teams and what achievements will ye be happy with? Why not have an open debate about that? Please don't come back with a nonsense response like saying I'm accepting mediocrity or defeat or I'm not ambitious. Come back and outline what achievements you would be happy with and where you want to see both teams. Im pretty sure some expect to see Liam McCarthy and sam back in the county, something that will never happen again. Over the next decade Kerry and Dublin will win most of the all Irelands, Tyrone might get another, mayo maybe, Galway but that's it! If you're looking for heads, the more you flip the coin the more you likely you are to get heads.

[G91]

I never thought I'd see the day where somebody thinks winning an all ireland at any grade doesn't count , let be a D final so what you still have to beat teams to win it you'd don't just show up on the final day and they hand you the cup,

So does offaly hurlers reaching the knockout stages of last years under 20 count for nothing because they were playing teams of lesser abilities in the group stages? They went on to face better teams just like gallen Cs did in a semi final and final

And they didn't win ut comfortably either

Players should be available to play whatever sport they want without any repercussions especially from minors under I know of plenty of players that are very good at other sports aswell as gaa but due to the strict nature of gaa some will only play one

Fair enough after this grade make the decision

[The big hill]

Very disappointing result and performance. That clearly is not the best bunch of players available at minor level in Offaly . The 3 best teams at minor this year will be Tullamore Rhode and Ferbane none from Ferbane starting only one from Rhode
How St Manchans have 6 on the pitch tonight was strange at best They aren’t in the top 6/7 teams
When is the penny gonna drop re this development squad work going on the last few yrs . The best Offaly player tonight was Cian Mcnamme was wasn’t allowed on a dev squad a few yrs ago because he played others sports
We need to have serious look at the size of players we are developing . Big young lads are been dropped at dev squad level when they are the ones we need to keep and develop cause they have one thing other players don’t have is size
We can’t afford to be dismissing players cause they player other sports we need to accommodate them and in time they inevitably pick Gaa
This is the first group to come fully through development squads under this administration of Offaly Gaa and it doesn’t bode well

I believe two of the selectors are involved with Manchans.

[Hasselhoff]

So lads have come on here saying the development squads are not working , what's the alternative proposal.

This could just be a very bad crop like the under 20 and minor footballers and hurlers of other years was a good crop.

What's the alternative system you propose?

[jimbob17]

They would certainly not be considered a bad crop and football people from outside Offaly would have seen Offaly as contenders for Leinster at minor level this year. Many of them were in equivalent of provincial final last year in Adam Mangan Cup final, losing narrowly to Galway. They shouldn't be losing to Longford by 8 or 9 pts!

What some people forget is that there is a difference between coaching and training. You can train a dog. You need to coach a football team. Have we the best coaches involved in our dev squad system? I don't know. The best ones are probably off with adult club senior teams and I get that it's voluntary capacity but we really need our best coaches in there with these teams to make real progress.

Hope it isnt the case, but maybe local politics is having some influence from reading posts above.

[Doon Exile]

Very disappointing result and performance. That clearly is not the best bunch of players available at minor level in Offaly . The 3 best teams at minor this year will be Tullamore Rhode and Ferbane none from Ferbane starting only one from Rhode
How St Manchans have 6 on the pitch tonight was strange at best They aren’t in the top 6/7 teams
When is the penny gonna drop re this development squad work going on the last few yrs . The best Offaly player tonight was Cian Mcnamme was wasn’t allowed on a dev squad a few yrs ago because he played others sports
We need to have serious look at the size of players we are developing . Big young lads are been dropped at dev squad level when they are the ones we need to keep and develop cause they have one thing other players don’t have is size
We can’t afford to be dismissing players cause they player other sports we need to accommodate them and in time they inevitably pick Gaa
This is the first group to come fully through development squads under this administration of Offaly Gaa and it doesn’t bode well

I believe two of the selectors are involved with Manchans.

Garry O’Connor- St Rynaghs and Darren Quinn Clonbullogue are selectors. No one from St Manchans involved.

[The big hill]

Crucial game tonight as the dubs will be hoping to put our hopes to bed