Offaly Senior Football Team - Championship 2023

[offalyman]

I would say all in all , it's being a decent year for the footballers. We had a chance of promotion out of Division 3 and were a kick of a ball away from a leinster Final. Yeah the Tailteann cup was a disappointment, but at the end of the day we'd get no satisfaction of winning that yoke. I believe us as offaly people both players & supporters have an arrogance about us that were to good to be playing in them 2nd rate competions (which i think is a good thing) because of our tradition of winning All-irelands over the last 50 years. Whether that's our level or not is irrelevant, but Do you think we'd celebrate winning the Tailteann cup like Westmeath did last year? we would in our eyeballs. It wasn't just the players who fell away the last few weeks, the supporters had aswell. We had a huge crowd up in croke park against Louth,but there wasnt more than a few hundred at any of the TC games.Back to the arrogance thing, as the u-20 footballers proved a few years ago when we do get a chance of winning an All-ireland w'll perform on the day because we have a believe in us that we should be there, where other countys dont.

[G91]

Your telling me it wouldn't be an achievement to win it ,considering meath down and cavan were all in it ,

Might not celebrate like westmeath did we don't have much arrogance anymore how long did take to win a lienster game

Had a decent o Byrne cup but the fiasco with louth ruined it , only for results elsewhere the league we wouldn't be up for promotion westmeath thought us a lesson again and down a Bigger one , to stay up in the league was decent

Unlucky vs louth but again they built up a nice lead easily, the comeback was some of the best football I've seen in offaly since the under 20s and losing it was a tough one

I don't think the appetite was there for the TC after everything most of the lads might have Been happy to finish the season after louth

[offalyman]

We would rather beat Meath, Laois whoever in the leinster championship than beat them in the TC because it means more to us. Maybe it would be Achievement to win it, but we wouldn't take much satisfaction winning it, there wouldn't be a big celebration, you wouldn't be lining the streets of Tullamore to welcome them home or anything Like some other county's might do because the simple fact is we don't give a toss about it.

[Geansai Gorm]

how come the cream of U20s in other counties (and we won an All Ireland I stress) seem to be almost automatically in Senior squad of their county the following year and are regular starting in first 15 within another year..

Was just looking at the 2018 Kildare U20 All Ireland winning team, and only 3 are regulars now for the seniors, Jimmy Hyland, Paddy Woodgate and Aaron Masterson. There's no guarantee of any progression from U20. And it's hard to shove pressure on the current Offlay U20 to 'step up' to play senior football, let alone inter-county. I've watched a lot of them play club football and it's hard to say they are ready for the top level. Potential is there, but let them develop first. Pressure is tough on players, and even harder on young guys.

[Fairplayalways]

my point again "let them develop first"...most other counties have them senior relatively quickly..

[G91]

We would rather beat Meath, Laois whoever in the leinster championship than beat them in the TC because it means more to us. Maybe it would be Achievement to win it, but we wouldn't take much satisfaction winning it, there wouldn't be a big celebration, you wouldn't be lining the streets of Tullamore to welcome them home or anything Like some other county's might do because the simple fact is we don't give a toss about it.

True It seemed like there was a bit more interest in it last year maybe that's because it was the first one and would be nice to win the first one

Westmeath went crazy , in comparison its kinda like a christy ring great to win it once but wouldn't be over enthusiastic about celebrating,

[Doon Exile]

Reading alot of above, I'll repeat this for God knows how many times - how come the cream of U20s in other counties (and we won an All Ireland I stress) seem to be almost automatically in Senior squad of their county the following year and are regular starting in first 15 within another year.. We are "waiting for them to develop" and all this ould mullarkey...are they now ready for Senior or not, not them all I know but surely 3 or 4 of them.. what's with Offaly with bringing them through.. an eternity goes on and they just drift

Tbf our u20’s have been unfortunate with injuries. If they get that sorted I’m sure we’ll see a few of them coming through or at least getting a chance.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Care to back up your claim with actual examples?

my point again "let them develop first"...most other counties have them senior relatively quickly..

[pigeon house biffo]

Off the top of my head, clifford in kerry obviously, sean kelly in galway, hyland in kildare, roscommons goalie this year was from their u20 final team

We’re division 3. Its the perfect development ground for young talent, there’s much of a muchness between all the teams unlike in div 2 where theres always a couple of weak outliers. Theres only one way they’ll learn, and thats to let them play games.

[Bord na Mona man]

Who from the U20s is not being given a fair run?
Several have featured, several have been injured and some have opted out in the short term.

[private joker]

You can't rely on one team coming through and having a major impact on a senior team. You need multiple teams at underage coming through. If people think having a one off team is going to progress the senior county team, you are very mistaken.

[Lone Shark]

This debate is bizarre.

Here's the team from the final against Roscommon two years ago.

OFFALY: Sean O'Toole; Lee Pearson, Tom Hyland, Aaron Brazil; Fionn Dempsey, John Furlong, Rory Egan; Ed Cullen, Morgan Tynan; Cathal Flynn, Cathal Donoghue, Oisin Keenan Martin; Cormac Egan, Jack Bryant, Aaron Keelaghan. Subs: Keith O'Neill for Keelaghan (48), Kieran Dolan for Brazil (58).

17 players in all. Out of those, five of them had significant long term injuries, and you'd be very hopeful that at least three or four of them feature from next year. Six more were part of the senior panel this year, making varying degrees of impact, and two were asked in but didn't go, for their own reasons. There may be more that I'm unaware of, either players who were brought into the senior panel and didn't feature, or who weren't interested in doing so.

That's 13 out of the 17. How can anyone look at that and think that there was a lack of will to bring the U-20s through?

[Anonymous1]

This debate is bizarre.

Here's the team from the final against Roscommon two years ago.

OFFALY: Sean O'Toole; Lee Pearson, Tom Hyland, Aaron Brazil; Fionn Dempsey, John Furlong, Rory Egan; Ed Cullen, Morgan Tynan; Cathal Flynn, Cathal Donoghue, Oisin Keenan Martin; Cormac Egan, Jack Bryant, Aaron Keelaghan. Subs: Keith O'Neill for Keelaghan (48), Kieran Dolan for Brazil (58).

17 players in all. Out of those, five of them had significant long term injuries, and you'd be very hopeful that at least three or four of them feature from next year. Six more were part of the senior panel this year, making varying degrees of impact, and two were asked in but didn't go, for their own reasons. There may be more that I'm unaware of, either players who were brought into the senior panel and didn't feature, or who weren't interested in doing so.

That's 13 out of the 17. How can anyone look at that and think that there was a lack of will to bring the U-20s through?

I believe it’s actually 15 out of 17 who’ve either had long term injuries, been part of the panel this year or were asked and didn’t go in.

Hyland and Dempsey are the only two I’m aware of who haven’t had a long term injury and haven’t been part of the panel, whether or not either have been asked in I can’t vouch for.

There has been quite a bit of misfortune with this group in terms of how many have had bad injuries but at the same time I can understand the argument Fairplayalways is making.

Not just with this group but with other U20’s who were primed to make the jump to senior in recent years, we’ve been a lot more reluctant to just throw them in at the deep end and see how they fare like they do in other counties. I also understand the argument against this approach as it could lead to further injuries for some or may knock the confidence from others when they realise just how the difficult the step up to senior is but on the other hand, the molly coddling approach has actually had the opposite effect of what it’s intended to do. Instead of holding players back to allow them to develop and then play them at senior when they’re deemed ready, we end up holding them back for so long that they lose interest, think they’re being overlooked or unfairly treated and instead of giving up 8 months of their lives to train, they decide to walk away and we never see them again.

I’m not sure whether the reluctance to play younger players comes from the county board or management but if it’s the latter then we need to look at bringing someone in with the express purpose of bringing through the 2021 U20’s and the only way to allow someone this freedom is to give them a long term deal for say 3 years and inform them that no matter the results in years 1 and 2, their job is secure. Short-termism of bringing lads in their 30’s in who may well be good players right now but who aren’t going to be around in 3 years and won’t bring us where we want to go in the interim needs to be halted and a medium-longer term strategic approach needs to be taken because if not then whomever is the manager next year will fall into the same trap as every other manager in recent years and be under pressure to keep Offaly in division 3 and win a championship game or face the sack so they’ll of course immediately move to bring those same older players back in to try win a handful of games thus saving their job.

If the reluctance is coming from the county board then they just need to back off and allow the senior manager play whomever he sees fit.

This is not an attack on Martin Murphy whatsoever either, more so on the approach taken by Offaly over the past number of years.

Whether to stick with Murphy or not is quite the conundrum because had the decision been taken after the Leinster championship, he’d have been a shoe in to become the next permanent manager but following that disastrous Tailteann Cup run I think many will be seeking a fresh face. Do we completely absolve the manager of blame for the players downing tools in the Tailteann and hope he can pick up where he left off in Leinster or is what happened in the Tailteann a sign that he’s lost the dressing room and the players stopped listening to him? Again, a tough one.

A lot of it will probably depend on who else is available if we do move on from him as not many names immediately spring to mind however I feel if Declan Kelly is interested in taking the job this time around then we should give it to him and put the aforementioned medium-long term approach in place of bringing through the U20’s because if it’s not done soon then I fear it will never be done and this could become a lost generation of players.

[Fairplayalways]

Care to back up your claim with actual examples?

my point again "let them develop first"...most other counties have them senior relatively quickly..

mmm..dont like these "challenges" as if to infer one doesnt know what one is talking about, but anyway such is this form - just a few come to my head that have made it in much heavier setting than Offaly are used to: Conroy./O'Hora just to name two from- Mayo, Clifford-Kerry, Hyland-Kildare, Quinlivan-TIpperary, Cooper- Kerry, McVeety-Cavan, Meehan and a many for Galway over the years, Moynihan-Kerry, Ulster counties - take your pick at all the underage that come through releatively quickly in Ulster, Dublin the same although we appreciate they are an exception in ways. Masters and a many from Cork, Young Carroll from Roscommon now appears to be upto the senior starting squad, Ultan Harney-Roscommon (travelling now though)
What I am saying is I dont obviously expect all 15 to make the move up, thats something only Roscommon have done back in the 40s from minor to senior to win all Irleands, but the pick of our u20's barring injury should be at the pace now, especially given we are Division 3 and not division 1. Not sure why I am explaining again, its only an observation I have noticed with Offaly over the years..

[Bord na Mona man]

Care to back up your claim with actual examples?

my point again "let them develop first"...most other counties have them senior relatively quickly..

mmm..dont like these "challenges" as if to infer one doesnt know what one is talking about, but anyway such is this form - just a few come to my head that have made it in much heavier setting than Offaly are used to: Conroy./O'Hora just to name two from- Mayo, Clifford-Kerry, Hyland-Kildare, Quinlivan-TIpperary, Cooper- Kerry, McVeety-Cavan, Meehan and a many for Galway over the years, Moynihan-Kerry, Ulster counties - take your pick at all the underage that come through releatively quickly in Ulster, Dublin the same although we appreciate they are an exception in ways. Masters and a many from Cork, Young Carroll from Roscommon now appears to be upto the senior starting squad, Ultan Harney-Roscommon (travelling now though)
What I am saying is I dont obviously expect all 15 to make the move up, thats something only Roscommon have done back in the 40s from minor to senior to win all Irleands, but the pick of our u20's barring injury should be at the pace now, especially given we are Division 3 and not division 1. Not sure why I am explaining again, its only an observation I have noticed with Offaly over the years..

Generational talents can break into senior straight from minor.
In Offaly we had Brian Whelahan and Niall McNamee playing senior at 17/18.

These are exceptions to the rule. I also believe this will happen less and less. The bar has been raised for the physical shape you need be to play senior county. A teenager with the jersey hanging off him is a fish out of water nowadays in the senior game.
We already have Offaly senior team players in their mid 20s who are trying to bridge the S&C gap to the leading counties.