Hurling in Tullamore for ever?

[Lone Shark]

I see what you're driving at - the stand is there, therefore we should use it as often as possible in order to justify the existence. However I'm not sure I buy into that. Offaly county board didn't embark on this project in order to house hurling league games, championship games against lesser teams, county finals and the like - what we had was adequate for that. This was done because of the likes of last year's situation - we had two home championship games in the hurling, and they ended up being played in Portlaoise and Carlow.

It remains to be seen whether or not the ground will be used enough to justify it. Being central, I suspect that it might. After all, grounds like Carlow, Portlaoise, Mullingar and Hyde etc. get used a lot, as neutral venues etc. There's no reason why Tullamore won't be the same. In saying that, I don't agree with the logic of moving games there in order to create an impression that we needed it, particularly when good sense dictates that Birr is a better venue. If I went out and bought a brand new tractor for drawing home the turf, there would be a strong possibility that come september I might begin to feel like I had purchased more than I needed. Even if I do come to that conclusion, it doesn't suddenly mean the way forward is to use the aforementioned tractor to pop down to the shop for a paper and a loaf of bread and leave the car, a much more suitable vehicle, idle.

Hurling games with a crowd of 4,000 or less belong in Birr.

[Fit For Junior]

I'd like to see more county hurling matches in Tullamore, as I think most people from that side of the county would.
As mentioned already, it would help promote more interest in the game around the area and a lot more of the younger generation who would'nt normally get to go to Birr would be able to see the county boys hurl. Accepted that kids in Birr may loose out, but they are growing up in hurling areas and already have a lot more exposure to a higher standard of hurling. Some effort needs to be made in the northern half of the county.

Also since the grounds in Birr are owned by the club, does'nt the county board have to pay for the use of the pitch for county games ? Does the Birr club get a percentage of the money taken at the gate ? Maybe not but if so, would it make sense to pay for the use of the Birr pitch, when there is already a grounds now owned by the county board in tullamore ?

As regards the pich surface, I always thought that tullamore has a better playing surface than birr. Its a couple of years since I played in birr but personally I always felt tullamore was the better. The surface used to be a bit uneven on the stand side of the birr pitch (not sure if thats the case any more though).

So more games for Tullamore !

[Treasurer]

now owned by the county board in tullamore

The county board don't own the grounds, they're leased from Tullamore.

I wouldn't like to see too many games moving to Tullamore rather than Birr. Not because it's a 76 mile round trip versus 18, but because I don't see the point in moving games just because we feel obliged to make use of a new Stand.

[Leroy]

Hi,

Having played in both many times I feel that the Pitch in Birr is a lot smaller and narrower than the Tullamore Pitch. Also to say that the Pitch in Tullamore should not be used due to the lack of Players form that Area and surrounding Areas is VERY narrow minded!

Tullamore has been good enough for the past years to train on and get teams ready for the big games in Headquarters

I think the issue here should be about the quality of the pitch and facilities and not the capacity issues.

[Lone Shark]

I think the issue here should be about the quality of the pitch and facilities and not the capacity issues.

Not having ever played on it, I won't comment, but this is a new angle for me - I always thought Birr's playing surface was highly regarded. Likewise I wasn't aware of any substantial difference in terms of the quality of the dressing rooms etc.

Here's a question - and it is an angle the county board will look at. We'll take a batch of games, for a hypothetical question.

(1) O'Byrne Cup Semi Final vs Wexford
(2) League match vs Waterford
(3) County Final, Birr vs Coolderry
(4) Minor County Final, Birr vs Rynagh's

These were all games that took place in Birr over the last twelve months, and these are the kind of games we were talking about. Does anybody here honestly believe more people would have attended those games if they were on in Tullamore? Does anybody believe that even the same amount of people would have attended? If not, why should we accept this loss?

Secondly, if the topic is evangelism, and spreading games: North Offaly could use a hurling boost, no question - just like the stalwarts in Birr are trying to keep alive football down there. So if, in the interests of fairness, we were to make the arrangement now - the 2006 county hurling final will be in Tullamore, and the 2006 county football final will be in Birr. That sounds like lunacy to me, but it's the obvious follow on to this "spread the gospel" talk. Is there anyone out there who would back such a plan?

[Tom]

Likewise I wasn't aware of any substantial difference in terms of the quality of the dressing rooms etc.

only a very minor thing, but i assume there are new dreesing rooms built beneath the new stand as in portlaoise, pearse stadium and other new stands.

[Bord na Mona man]

So if, in the interests of fairness, we were to make the arrangement now - the 2006 county hurling final will be in Tullamore, and the 2006 county football final will be in Birr. That sounds like lunacy to me, but it's the obvious follow on to this "spread the gospel" talk. Is there anyone out there who would back such a plan?

I think the Offaly hurlers playing in Tullamore would attract more locals than a county final with 2 Southern teams. If the hurlers played a league match in Tullamore and the footballers played a match in Birr, then it would be a good gesture. We should try and get a double header or two if possible too.
There have been a couple of occasions where the hurlers were playing a Walsh Cup game in Birr while the footballers were playing a league match in Tullamore.

Since we're unlikely to get many home qualifiers fixed for Birr, then maybe the hurlers should get a bit of experience playing in Tullamore. Otherwise home advantage is negligible if our county team are as unfamiliar with the pitch as the visitors.
[/quote]

[Tom]

Since we're unlikely to get many home qualifiers fixed for Birr, then maybe the hurlers should get a bit of experience playing in Tullamore. Otherwise home advantage is negligible if our county team are as unfamiliar with the pitch as the visitors.

this is a good point, but the teams and clubs who keep hurling going in this county are the teams in and around birr. some of these clubs have never been behind the o'connor park development. All of the clubs in the northern half of the county sold their quota of the fundraising tickets. (remember the draw for the cars??) Many even went back for more and sold more than the quota. a few, and it was a small few in fairness, from the southern half did not sell their quota. I know most of these clubs are small parishes but the likes of Doon, Ballycumber, Tubber all sold their quota. Is it possible that some of the clubs didn't see that they would benefit from this as they played most of their games in Birr or was their just a lack of support for the development?

[Treasurer]

some of the clubs didn't see that they would benefit from this as they played most of their games in Birr or was their just a lack of support for the development?

As one of the clubs who didn't reach our quota, there were a few factors, as were raised on more than one occasion and by more than one club. But yes, there were some people who simply refused to buy tickets on the grounds that they did not want to see everything moving to Tullamore.

[Tom]

thats all i was wondering. i wasn't slating any clubs as i can see peoples point in not wanting to see hurling moved exclusivly to tullamore. i

[Lone Shark]

Tis a bit like asking the turkeys to vote for Christmas all right.

I like the point about how next year the footballers should play some games in Birr. Seeing as we're back in Division 2 next year, there's probably a case for moving the games around a wee bit all across the county. Assuming they don't adjust the divisions again, we'll be in with Monaghan, Roscommon, Carlow, London, Longford, Leitrim and Clare.

Unless double headers work out, only Roscommon or Monaghan, or possibly Longford, would require any kind of large capacity. There would be a lot to be said for putting a couple of games in Birr, and possibly even a game in somewhere like Gracefield?

[Plain of the Herbs]

Whether we like it or not, home hurling championship matches are destined for Tullamore for the foreseeable future.

Firstly, the fire officers or whoever visit the grounds annually seem to knock 10% off the capacity of grounds like Birr and Tullamore on each visit. The two reasons for this are an aversion to grass banks and a shortage of exit gates.

Both grounds were owned by the respective town clubs and development grants for county grounds were only available where the ground was owned by the County Board. As Tullamore club were unwilling to sell O'Connor Park, a middle ground was reached where the county would take out a thirty year lease, which was acceptable to headquarters.

Tullamore was chosen to be developed as a) Tullamore is the county town b) it has the bigger potential capacity and c) it's more likely to host big games such as football ties against the likes of Laois, be used as a neutral venue for games involving other Leinster counties or Under 21 ties involving Galway and Kilkenny.

The law is that if a match is likely to attract upwards of 75% of the ground's capacity them it MUST be all-ticket. With this in mind, personally, I'd rather it go to Tullamore than be locked outside. Anything is better than being an itinerant county playing our home matches in Carlow and Portlaoise. The hurlers train in Tullamore so its not like they're going to Clones or some place, and despite the shortness of the pitch, the playing surface is ideal for hurling.

The other point to note is that strictly speaking, county hurling finals whick regularly attract seven thousand persons to St. Brendan's Park are a no-no as far as the safety officers are concerned. As was the Waterford match which was attended by up to five thousand.

As for Tullamore, the new stand doesn't do an awful lot to raise capacity. The reduction in capacity is due to the grassy bank. This will have to be terraced in due course.

It seems, then, that the All-Ireland quarter final of 1984 between Galway and Westmeath brought the curtain down on senior championship hurling at the Birr venue.

[Ron]

Some good points there POTH,
The grassy hills are out and that was the basis for the capacity reduction ahead of the Offaly Westmeath clash a couple of years ago alright. There was also some mention of european rules to phase out or prohibit their use, I think some kind of agreement might have been reached to phase them out gradually instead.

The one thing I'm really looking forward to on Saturday evening is the atmosphere that the new stand will create in O'Connor Park. I can only assume that it will be something like (probably better ) than Portlaoise. Its a good place to watch a game now. That atmosphere has sadly been lacking in Tullamore in recent years (even when the old windy stand was there).

What is the reference to the 1984 Quarter final in Birr? I'm a bit young to remember that, something to do with the Centenery celebrations? I thought Qtr finals were a new thing to hurling in the "back door" era.

[Plain of the Herbs]

What is the reference to the 1984 Quarter final in Birr? I'm a bit young to remember that, something to do with the Centenery celebrations? I thought Qtr finals were a new thing to hurling in the "back door" era.

To answer your question, from around that time, the weaker counties (basically those who now compete in the Christy Ring Cup) took part in what was called the All Ireland "B" competition. It was a knockout comp. and the prize was an All-Ireland quarter final with Galway in advance of their All Ireland semi final. Westmeath won it in 1984 and played Galway in neutral Birr. Galway wore white (Connacht colours) and Westmeath wore the green of Leinster. Laois won a few in the 1970's while Kerry and London were also prominent.

It was discontinued on with the advent of the back door in 1997.