Allianz-Hurling-league 1B

[King Kev]

Its fair to say if we'd have been beaten 15 points on Saturday many wouldnt have been surprised. I know we lost the game but I think offaly can take a lot of positives from Saturday night. We finished very strong something that's been a problem in earlier matches this year. Shane Dooleys getting a bit of stick here between his conditioning and contribution from play. First off it's the middle of February with the exception of a few natural athletes it's fair to say not every player is goin to be at 100% fitness this early. Dooley is also more often than not our main scorer from play also. Someone's in an earlier post named Ciarain Slevin at wing forward ahead of Derek Molloy ?? If people think that the Kk boys are goin to solve our problems they'd be well advised to think again. Currams and Mahon in the forwards and that's all were going to get. Slevins on fire for Kk at the moment and I hope he leads them to glory on paddys day but he ain't an intercounty forward. Our subs Molloy Egan and Carroll done well when introduced. It's a pity there's so many lads missing from last year. Good lads at that.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

The sad part for Slevin is that by the time he comes on to the panel, he won't get an opportunity to prove himself. But he needs to get in and work hard and learn the ropes at county level and could be an addition. Currams also, he didnt hurl with Offaly last year and has only in this club championship, begun to show glimpses of what he can do as he has pace and power which he needs to use more.

Mahon, may be the one to benefit most from the club run, as when he comes back in with Offay, he will have done more stickwork in the last 6 mths than at any stage and this is what he needs.
He will be a big plus.
Any of the KK backs in with a shout?

[durra1]

“If we did get something out of it, it probably would have felt like we were stealing it,” said Baker. “Dublin might have felt unjustified then because, at certain stages, we looked out of it and that’s why we have to give a bit of credit to our players that we stayed at it and kept going.

“Like, Dublin are a quality team and we’re delighted in one sense that they didn’t wipe the floor with us. But this is a league at the end of the day. You don’t get any plaudits for going away with moral victories.”

[backofthenet]

Lads seen this on setanta, a few thoughts

The offaly team especially in the forward line were to put it bluntly running around like headless chickens! I don't know how many times I seen 3-4 offaly players chasing the one player back...only for that one Dublin player to handpass it back to where the offaly players had been only a few seconds ago. Now while this effort is commendable the team needs to get smarter, if one player is chasing a lad, really what good is 3-4 going to do! It opened up a lot of space which Dublin exploited quite a lot around the middle of the park. This in my opinion is something that players learn at underage level, but possibly with all the new faces and with some trying hard to impress it got lost in the confusion. Because the players were wasting so much effort chasing lost causes when a ball did come up that they should be fighting for they were behind their men, we need to concentrate on the ball we can win and not the ball we cant!

We could not win our own puckout, or even compete properly for it. This has been a massive problem for offaly for the last decade, we need Derek molloy and Colin Egan on each wing to at least compete, but what was really worrying was that Dublin picked up every breaking ball regardless of whether of the direction it fell in. This again is players not using their heads properly, I seen 2 offaly players jumping for the ball with one Dublin player quite a few times, really the smart thing to do is to stay in behind and watch for the break.

I cannot see where people are going with Kevin Brady whether he is offalys answer at centre back is for another day but he was definitely not the problem against Dublin, nor really were any of the back line, the problem remains in the forward line where it has been for the last number of years. Fix the obvious problem rather than look for problems that aren't there.

The way the team tried is heartening, and with the players missing is a pretty good performance, however I think Dublin are behind wexford offaly & antrim despite some of their success in the last few years

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

How can anyone say Dublin are behind Offaly , Wex and Antrim? We should not be a million miles away from them, but they are definitely ahead.

[durra1]

BOTN, as one of KBs critics in an earlier post, I’ll repeat my earlier commendation of his decision to give it another year especially given the retirements and loss of Horan and Eanna Murphy to the half back line options.

Maybe it’s my own bee-in-me-bonnet about lads driving aimless ball from my playing days but there were three to four times in the game when KB was moving forward, on the front foot (or stationary in open field) with no Dub in hooking distance when he skied a clearance right down on top of a Dublin half back line without so much of a lift of the head (all the more noticeable on white helmets).

You know your stuff on the game so you can’t have missed that.

I’ve seen this with KB more frequently in the last few years when he’s hurled at 6 or when he sits in the pocket hurling midfield for club and county.

I’m not ignoring the fact that he did give a few short drinks and hand passes that materialised into scoring chances so I’m not accusing him of launching long balls all night. I’m referring to a 6 in space, coming forward which for me is an AAA attacking scenario for any team.

Now, you could argue whether there was any movement up front which he could have spotted if had he lifted the ceann and I wasn’t in Parnell Park.

I’d also question is ability to hold the position as outlined by another poster. I’d question his ability to track a young roving centre forward purely because of his advancing years. And I’d question whether he has the defensive capabilities to handle an abrasive, direct, centre forward of the mould of a Prendergast or a Bonner Maher.

This all sounds harsh on my part who never wore the county colours. Kevin Brady has given tremendous service to the cause. Nobody in their right mind would question that. Personally I agree with POTH that we have to look at bringing Rory back to 6 and look hard at our midfield options where I go back to my comments about finding a fit that works for Sean Ryan.

[townman]

yes the number 6 is a problem for offaly at the moment, KB is the best we have at the moment Rory Hanniffy could do a job there but he is getting on in years to.

its a pity Paul Cleary will be missing for a while yet as it would free up Dave Kenny to move to
number 6. i think we have an up and coming centre back in the next few years in Kilcormac/killougheys Cillian Kiely if he puts the work in.

offaly done well saturday night coming up to the game and seen the team and Kenny getting
hurt in the warm up i though we could be in for a long night but the players fought hard in the second half and thats all you can asked from lads.

i thought young Sean Gardiner done well in his first league start as he was threw in again a good Dublin forward line.

i think Oillie left it late to make changes, i thought Brian Carroll was lucky to see 70 minutes and Egan and Tommy Carroll could have came on at half time, and maybe gave Molloy 20 minutes.

Conal Keaney scored some fine points but he was left all on his own for most of them.
the way the game turn out after i think if Dave Kenny was playing we could have got a win out of it as he would have kept Dublin at bay for the scores they got early in the first half.

Dublin had most of there first team squad with offaly missing a few with the likes of Kenny, Derek Molloy,Colin Egan, fitter and add in the likes of Slevin,Mahon, Dan Curram's. Peter Geraghy, back in we would have beaten Dublin the other night.

wexford next up in two weeks a must win game already, will be a battle with the Slaneysiders but if the right team is picked plus we hurl for the 70 minutes like we did for the last 20 saturday night we should take the points.

just wonder about the panel has it been cut yet or is it an open panel, i though Coolderry's Eoin Ryan and Kevin Connolly would have got a look in this year!
or even Gazza Kelly from Rynaghs, looking at the programme the bench looks weak
with Tom Bolger and Colm Coughlan the other fowards left that would have came on.

have to say the Dubs do a good programme there was 39 pages for a league game.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Eoin Ryan is a fella who could benefit from time in with Offaly, a bit of gym work and he might be a man who could step up ove rthe next 2 years?
Anyone know if he was asked in?

[timber]

Really really worrying display by Offaly. Everything was lacking. I have said it before and I am even more convinced of it. This panel look like they are sulking because they have Kilkenny in the first round and are looking very defeated. That's the vibe going around and anybody who watched that game on Saturday night would see it.

A few lads really put in good effort and gave it there all but unfortunately the lads trying the hardest have the least ability.

Jamesie O' Connor (who is painful to listen to on the commentary) commented that Dooley was not in great condition. The same could be said of a few others also but O' Connor was spot on.

Brian Carroll, dont get me wrong, a brilliant hurler, he is up their with the best in the country, but should not be hurled around the midfield or half forward line at this level. He will always chip in with a few scores no matter who is marking him but he wont win primary possession around there. He doesnt have the size or the work rate at this level to be played in such a role. Play him at 13, its where he grew up hurling all along and it is where Baker will get the best from him.

Offaly could have won it but didnt deserve to be even close. It was more about Dublin being pretty bad themselves than anything else.

As someone else commented, there is no point expecting the KK lads to bring much to the county team. I would struggle to pick one who really is a first choice intercounty player. (Slevin has been very good for KK but is not a county hurler, healions not fit or fast enough for that level, brian leonard likewise, Currams the pick of them but still lacks something for 1st team place).

Baker has a job on his hands. Getting these boys head's right is the 1st thing.

[backofthenet]

BOTN, as one of KBs critics in an earlier post, I’ll repeat my earlier commendation of his decision to give it another year especially given the retirements and loss of Horan and Eanna Murphy to the half back line options.

Maybe it’s my own bee-in-me-bonnet about lads driving aimless ball from my playing days but there were three to four times in the game when KB was moving forward, on the front foot (or stationary in open field) with no Dub in hooking distance when he skied a clearance right down on top of a Dublin half back line without so much of a lift of the head (all the more noticeable on white helmets).

You know your stuff on the game so you can’t have missed that.

I’ve seen this with KB more frequently in the last few years when he’s hurled at 6 or when he sits in the pocket hurling midfield for club and county.

I’m not ignoring the fact that he did give a few short drinks and hand passes that materialised into scoring chances so I’m not accusing him of launching long balls all night. I’m referring to a 6 in space, coming forward which for me is an AAA attacking scenario for any team.

Now, you could argue whether there was any movement up front which he could have spotted if had he lifted the ceann and I wasn’t in Parnell Park.

I’d also question is ability to hold the position as outlined by another poster. I’d question his ability to track a young roving centre forward purely because of his advancing years. And I’d question whether he has the defensive capabilities to handle an abrasive, direct, centre forward of the mould of a Prendergast or a Bonner Maher.

This all sounds harsh on my part who never wore the county colours. Kevin Brady has given tremendous service to the cause. Nobody in their right mind would question that. Personally I agree with POTH that we have to look at bringing Rory back to 6 and look hard at our midfield options where I go back to my comments about finding a fit that works for Sean Ryan.

I think were arguing the same point really, I would agree that his distribution and positional sense can be a problem, however what I am saying is that we clearly have a major major problem in the forward line and have done for years, we cannot gain possession from our puck out, or any high ball for that matter that lands on our half forward line & our forwards are often gone missing when a defender does clear the ball, using your own example of when KB cleared it down on top of 3 or 4 Dublin backs all on their own, now while I agree it should never happen, where the hell are the 3/4 forwards that are meant to be competing for the ball...theyre in the offaly half back line after tracking back too far...so we end up chasing our tails again for another half hour.

I think the reason KB is at centre back is that he simply doesn't have the legs for centre field & we have switched rory out there. I would agree that rory hanniffy is the best centre back offaly have & in my opinion should have been there for the last number of years.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Brian Carroll was a decent hurler, but hard to say brilliant. When is the last time he hurled really well over 70mins for Offaly?
To me, he is a hurler who never really delivered on his undoubted potential. And his accuracy has waned in recent years, albeit the fact that he is probably operating closer to the midfield than the full forward line.

Very worrying if this is the case, that lads are sulking over playing Kilkenny. I also worry at the tone that Ollie Baker took after the game. He was more or less saying that we hadnt a hope going in to play Dublin.
There may be a case of a few lads pulling out looking ahead to the championship draw, but surely the lads that are in there are committed to putting in an effort, first in the league, and then the chance to play the All Ireland champions in our back yard? And after that we will see where we are.

[jimbob17]

Yea agree with a lot of whats being said. Brady would be more comfortable at midfield and distribution could be better especially when he is free in space to strike. Carroll too for me would be more natural at 13 as i dont know if he has the legs for the modern game at 10 or 12. Egan and Molloy for me would be better ball winners at 10 and 12 than anyone and we did well under JD when they were there v Galway a few years ago, though i think Parlon has done well here and is well worth a shot until someone takes the shirt off him..Id like to see Sean Ryan at midfield as I dont think he is tidy enough at full or corner forward at this level.

Thought the backs were quite good the last day when under a lot of pressure especially Chris McDonnell who had a right good game and we really came into it in last 20 v dubs. I am fairly sure that Baker would be well aware of Eoin Ryan and Connolly and if he isnt i dont know what the selectors are at. Byrne and Corrigan would surely have brought these fellas to Bakers attention and maybe they are just unwilling to commit as i know for certain that 2 or 3 lads we could do with refused to go in when asked which is a shame......

imagine if we had options on using Hayden, Egan tullamore, Harding, Eoin Ryan and 1 or two more fellas who are out there but unwilling to commit....

The movement of the forwards off the ball wasnt great v the dubs and while Dublin were running and hand passing creating overlaps at times our lads seemed to be playing traditional hurling, trying to win their own ball and score their own point...its definitely something our lads could improve on. This can definitely be done in a short space of time as the Cork lads have done going by their demolition of tipp the other night....

All that said, id have been very enthused by the performance against the dubs and would have easily taken that when taking into account the inexperience given the few lads we were missing, recent performances v Wexford and Kenny crying off in the warm up..that said, if the dubs were more clinical in front of goal they could have buried us with a few goals.....

[Plain of the Herbs]

Just saw the highlights package on TG4. Division 1b is going to be mighty interesting - moreso the bottom half.

From those highlights, Antrim looked sharp. Their first touch seemed impressive. And they were physically strong. Seemingly they led by six points for some time, but were undone by a goal that came about following an unfortunate series of errors. And Antrim appeared to play with an extra defender.

Carlow looked impressive when in possession and used plenty of combination play. They appeared weak on the ground though, where Wexford won any scrums that were shown on the highlights package.

[timber]

Reading Baker's comments really sickened me. Happy that Dublin didnt wipe the floor with them. What sort of attitude is that. For starters Offaly never feared Dublin and should never fear them. There is feck all to fear really. Good me arse, Dublin are middle of the road. They get a fierce amount of money pumped into them, the best facilities. Daly talks alot about how the footballers get the 1st choice on alot of things alright and its probably true but the Dub hurlers are probably one of the best looked after hurling outfits in the country.

From underage right up to adult level, Dublin has benefitted hugely from country people living and working up there and providing coaching. This has been going on for a long long time. So if anything Dublin should be producing the goods.

But Bakers attitude was crap. If thats his mentality then he should feck off. Offaly never feared anybody. Give respect by all means but always believe we can beat any team in the country on our day. So to read him speaking on behalf of our county like that really sickens me.

[Kevin]

Reading Baker's comments really sickened me. Happy that Dublin didnt wipe the floor with them. What sort of attitude is that. For starters Offaly never feared Dublin and should never fear them. There is feck all to fear really. Good me arse, Dublin are middle of the road. They get a fierce amount of money pumped into them, the best facilities. Daly talks alot about how the footballers get the 1st choice on alot of things alright and its probably true but the Dub hurlers are probably one of the best looked after hurling outfits in the country.

From underage right up to adult level, Dublin has benefitted hugely from country people living and working up there and providing coaching. This has been going on for a long long time. So if anything Dublin should be producing the goods.

But Bakers attitude was crap. If thats his mentality then he should feck off. Offaly never feared anybody. Give respect by all means but always believe we can beat any team in the country on our day. So to read him speaking on behalf of our county like that really sickens me.

Agree completely. Don't see how any of the comments attributed to the manager will inspire the troops or the following. Its doubtful the opposition will be gullible enough to let us outflank them the next time just because we portray ourselves like a bunch of chumps who don't expect to win anyway.

There was a whole thread on here back a while about all this 'Jedi Mind Tricks' for pre and post game managerial comments. Some funny stuff in there.

Timber, the following (taken from your text above perfectly encapsulates the mentality required now and always) ...

'Offaly never feared anybody. Give respect by all means but always believe we can beat any team in the country on our day.'