Kilcormac/Killoughey 2-16
St Rynaghs 2-12
Congratulations to K/K they were the better side overall and deserved their win.The crucial period was the 15 minuts after half time where K/K completely took charge and gave themselves a comfortable gap.Ciaran Slevin was outstanding and his first half penalty really lifted K/K who looked very shaky at the start of the match and had hit 4 or 5 wides before their first score.Gary Kelly was top class in the first half for Rynaghs and he won a huge amount of ball as well as scoring a goal and a couple of points.For some reason (perhaps he was tired) he was moved into the full forward line in the second half and he really should have been left in the half forward line where he was causing a huge amount of trouble for K/K.
Can someone explain K/Ks history in terms of the two clubs being amalgamated.I only thought they amalgamated in the late 80's but according to today's programme they were amalgamated as NaPiarsigh in the 70's and then went back to separate clubs.
Hurling Championship
Re: Hurling Championship
Liam Currams club from old programmes in the early 80's says Na Piarsigh so it must have been in the 70's.DAF wrote:Kilcormac/Killoughey 2-16
St Rynaghs 2-12
Congratulations to K/K they were the better side overall and deserved their win.The crucial period was the 15 minuts after half time where K/K completely took charge and gave themselves a comfortable gap.Ciaran Slevin was outstanding and his first half penalty really lifted K/K who looked very shaky at the start of the match and had hit 4 or 5 wides before their first score.Gary Kelly was top class in the first half for Rynaghs and he won a huge amount of ball as well as scoring a goal and a couple of points.For some reason (perhaps he was tired) he was moved into the full forward line in the second half and he really should have been left in the half forward line where he was causing a huge amount of trouble for K/K.
Can someone explain K/Ks history in terms of the two clubs being amalgamated.I only thought they amalgamated in the late 80's but according to today's programme they were amalgamated as NaPiarsigh in the 70's and then went back to separate clubs.
Re: Hurling Championship
also well done to KK today were the better team and the 8 point turnaround after halftime was the winning of the game
Ciaran Slevin was outstanding and hit some lovely scores Ollie Baker has to get this lad into the offaly squad this winter
Ciaran Slevin was outstanding and hit some lovely scores Ollie Baker has to get this lad into the offaly squad this winter
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kingscounty
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Re: Hurling Championship
well done to k/k on winning today , i think k/k experience of the last few years stood to them and they finished the game very strong in the last 15-20 mins. ciaran slevin was outstanding, he was very good on the frees and he scored some brilliant points from play. currams played well in the second half and won alot of ball when he was moved further out the field, mahon got stuck in well and should have had a goal in the first half but for a great save by conor clancy. St.rynaghs are a young team and should be proud of the way they played today and they will be back in a final if they stick together, wynne played well and scored some nice long range frees, gary kelly was rynaghs best forward for me he was hungry for the ball and took his goal well.diarmuid horan was very quite in the game apart from the goal, he didnt get on the ball much, maybe he was injured as he wasnt down to start on the programme or was it rynaghs playing mind games with k/k? its good to see a new team come along and win the championship, just looking at the leinster championship draw k/k play the carlow champions in the first round and if they came through that they face the winners of westmeath and laois a great chance of getting to a leisnter final although its a bit early to be talking about that better let k/k enjoy this first. 
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Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Hurling Championship
Kilcormac and Killoughey have had a kind of an on-off relationship. They seem to have been separate clubs up to about 1970. Now, both wouldn’t always have had a team so when that happened the Killoughey lads would hurl with Kilcormac and vice-versa. There were some tears when they wouldn’t have a team between them. Hence Joe Murphy won a county title or two playing as a permission-player with Drumcullen. Killoughey beat Kilcormac in the Junior Final in 1964 to go Senior.
They merged as Na Piarsaigh in 1970 and that continued for most of the decade. Then one of them broke away (it might have been Kilcormac because they went Junior and Killoughey stayed Senior) but the Kilcormac lads could still hurl Senior with Killoughey under the bizarre part of the parish rule of the time that allowed the likes of Laz Molloy play Senior with Rhode although he could also play with Croghan in a lower grade at the same time.
If that wasn’t mad enough, one year Kilcormac were promoted and Killoughey relegated and the Killoughey lads could play Senior with Kilcormac. But after Killoughey won the IHC in 1984 both were Senior and they hurled separately for 1985 and 1986. The current, united club was formed in 1987. That decision was vindicated a long time ago but today, after 26 years hurling as a united parish, they finally claimed ultimate honours.
The colours have changed in the meantime. Both Kilcormac and Killoughey wore generally similar colours anyway. In the late 80s they wore gold with a green hoop. When different coloured sleeves became commonplace in the 1990s they wore gold with green sleeves. Then they wore green and gold hoops (like ballinamere do now). Then they switched to the predominantly-green about a decade ago.
On a final point of pedantry, I believe the name of the club should correctly be written as Kilcormac-Killoughey rather than Kilcormac/Killoughey, with use of a hyphen rather than a slash the more appropriate. A hyphen is commonly used when various parts of a parish come together to form a single club. A slash is commonly used to denote an amalgamation of separate parishes or clubs. For example, when Ferbane-Belmont joined with Lusmagh to play U21 hurling for a few years the name of the team would have been Ferbane-Belmont/Lusmagh, where Ferbane-Belmont was a parish and a club from outside the parish was included as part of the amalgamation. Tynagh/Abbey-Duniry is another example.
They merged as Na Piarsaigh in 1970 and that continued for most of the decade. Then one of them broke away (it might have been Kilcormac because they went Junior and Killoughey stayed Senior) but the Kilcormac lads could still hurl Senior with Killoughey under the bizarre part of the parish rule of the time that allowed the likes of Laz Molloy play Senior with Rhode although he could also play with Croghan in a lower grade at the same time.
If that wasn’t mad enough, one year Kilcormac were promoted and Killoughey relegated and the Killoughey lads could play Senior with Kilcormac. But after Killoughey won the IHC in 1984 both were Senior and they hurled separately for 1985 and 1986. The current, united club was formed in 1987. That decision was vindicated a long time ago but today, after 26 years hurling as a united parish, they finally claimed ultimate honours.
The colours have changed in the meantime. Both Kilcormac and Killoughey wore generally similar colours anyway. In the late 80s they wore gold with a green hoop. When different coloured sleeves became commonplace in the 1990s they wore gold with green sleeves. Then they wore green and gold hoops (like ballinamere do now). Then they switched to the predominantly-green about a decade ago.
On a final point of pedantry, I believe the name of the club should correctly be written as Kilcormac-Killoughey rather than Kilcormac/Killoughey, with use of a hyphen rather than a slash the more appropriate. A hyphen is commonly used when various parts of a parish come together to form a single club. A slash is commonly used to denote an amalgamation of separate parishes or clubs. For example, when Ferbane-Belmont joined with Lusmagh to play U21 hurling for a few years the name of the team would have been Ferbane-Belmont/Lusmagh, where Ferbane-Belmont was a parish and a club from outside the parish was included as part of the amalgamation. Tynagh/Abbey-Duniry is another example.
DAF wrote:Can someone explain K/Ks history in terms of the two clubs being amalgamated.I only thought they amalgamated in the late 80's but according to today's programme they were amalgamated as NaPiarsigh in the 70's and then went back to separate clubs.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Plain of the Herbs
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Kilcormac-Killoughey 2-16 St Rynagh's 2-12
I expected much more of St Rynagh’s today. It is commonplace for a team playing into the wind to play with a third midfielder but today was one of the few times I have seem a team play a third midfielder when hurling with the wind. And so they proceeded to hit ball after ball to an unmarked Healion.
The game bypassed Horan too. Now if he was injured he was an odd choice to bring outfield. I don’t know about all this talk of a ‘fitness test’. James Skehill failed his fitness test last week and still played in the All-Ireland. Not that that makes it right that Skehill should have played.
Danny Owens got all his calls right. Dinny Cahill and his team of ‘referee counsellors’ got theirs wrong, with the exception of switching Camon and Wynne. Kevin Grogan scored a critical goal, Geraghty scored a point (I think?), Mark Leonard scored and John Grogan and Killian Leonard all made a contribution.
On the other side, Fergus Shortt simply shouldn’t have been replaced. The reaction of the crowd told everything about Seán Dolan’s substitution. Gary Healy is a worker and was needed further outfield instead of full-forward. Awful stuff.
Rynagh’s early 0-3 to 0-0 lead looked something to build on but K-K still had more of the play at that time but hit everything wide and after K-K got off the mark, Rynagh’s never kept the scoreboard ticking over. The wind didn’t seem that significant but the flags behind the Arden Road goal were quite stiff. The goal before half-time (which came about when Ger Healion was caught the wrong side of a breaking ball) gave St Rynagh’s what was probably a ‘false’ four-point lead. Healion’s reaction to teammates showed great leadership, instantly calming a situation that could have blew a fuse on other days.
K-K ate them up around the middle in the last 20 minutes, though a few key incidences swung the game. Ciarán Flannery’s two attempted-tackles gave away two frees that were scored from distance, and the Rynagh’s reaction of the incident with the maor-camán on the sideline didn’t scream ‘focus’ and was a distraction to their own team. Slevin’s mighty point from distance was worth two points for its timing, execution, everything. Daniel Currams scored a few off his right side. Brian Leonard was mighty. So were the Healions. So was Alan McConville and Guinan. And Kilmartin with the black-and-white helmet. So was Fletcher too, and while he didn’t score much (if at all) he held onto alot of ball and didn’t allow quick clearances.
Slevin’s tally of 1-9 is mighty impressive. I know he was taking the frees and that, but no-one has hit 12 points in a final since Paddy Corrigan shot 1-9 in 1985. Before that we have to go back to Paddy Molloy’s 3-3 in 1965. Looking at the list of top scorers on page 28 of the programme only Phil Purcell (4-4 in 1946) and Willie Mitchell (2-7 in 1952) have scored more in a Final. Add in the frees Slevin missed early on and Phil Purcell’s record might have been under threat.
St Rynagh's tally of 2-12 is the highest score by a losing county finalist since they themselves hit 4-6 when Clareen won their first title in 1988. It is surpassed only by Drumcullen's 3-10 in 1955 and Shinrone's 4-10 in 1960.
Finally to Drumcullen. THAT’S how you should hurl when you’ve a physical advantage.
The game bypassed Horan too. Now if he was injured he was an odd choice to bring outfield. I don’t know about all this talk of a ‘fitness test’. James Skehill failed his fitness test last week and still played in the All-Ireland. Not that that makes it right that Skehill should have played.
Danny Owens got all his calls right. Dinny Cahill and his team of ‘referee counsellors’ got theirs wrong, with the exception of switching Camon and Wynne. Kevin Grogan scored a critical goal, Geraghty scored a point (I think?), Mark Leonard scored and John Grogan and Killian Leonard all made a contribution.
On the other side, Fergus Shortt simply shouldn’t have been replaced. The reaction of the crowd told everything about Seán Dolan’s substitution. Gary Healy is a worker and was needed further outfield instead of full-forward. Awful stuff.
Rynagh’s early 0-3 to 0-0 lead looked something to build on but K-K still had more of the play at that time but hit everything wide and after K-K got off the mark, Rynagh’s never kept the scoreboard ticking over. The wind didn’t seem that significant but the flags behind the Arden Road goal were quite stiff. The goal before half-time (which came about when Ger Healion was caught the wrong side of a breaking ball) gave St Rynagh’s what was probably a ‘false’ four-point lead. Healion’s reaction to teammates showed great leadership, instantly calming a situation that could have blew a fuse on other days.
K-K ate them up around the middle in the last 20 minutes, though a few key incidences swung the game. Ciarán Flannery’s two attempted-tackles gave away two frees that were scored from distance, and the Rynagh’s reaction of the incident with the maor-camán on the sideline didn’t scream ‘focus’ and was a distraction to their own team. Slevin’s mighty point from distance was worth two points for its timing, execution, everything. Daniel Currams scored a few off his right side. Brian Leonard was mighty. So were the Healions. So was Alan McConville and Guinan. And Kilmartin with the black-and-white helmet. So was Fletcher too, and while he didn’t score much (if at all) he held onto alot of ball and didn’t allow quick clearances.
Slevin’s tally of 1-9 is mighty impressive. I know he was taking the frees and that, but no-one has hit 12 points in a final since Paddy Corrigan shot 1-9 in 1985. Before that we have to go back to Paddy Molloy’s 3-3 in 1965. Looking at the list of top scorers on page 28 of the programme only Phil Purcell (4-4 in 1946) and Willie Mitchell (2-7 in 1952) have scored more in a Final. Add in the frees Slevin missed early on and Phil Purcell’s record might have been under threat.
St Rynagh's tally of 2-12 is the highest score by a losing county finalist since they themselves hit 4-6 when Clareen won their first title in 1988. It is surpassed only by Drumcullen's 3-10 in 1955 and Shinrone's 4-10 in 1960.
Finally to Drumcullen. THAT’S how you should hurl when you’ve a physical advantage.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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suckindiesel
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Re: Hurling Championship
as an independent foreigner at the games today i will give a few thoughts. good attendance, 7700 i think they said and 15 euros a fair price. and i know this is a bugbear of some, o connor park is head and shoulders above birr, and counties like offaly cannot afford and do not need more than one stadium. creating white elephants for use once or twice a year is profligate in these times.
i thought the offaly county minors were poor this year, not a good sign for the future. the minor final today was poor fare, i have no idea how a very young weak looking shinrone team managed to get to the final, maybe they had a handy draw along the way. few if any future stars on show in this game. i did like the jesus christ lookalike ref, he let it flow and of all the participants in the first game, he may have the brightest future.
the second game, it was an entertaining game. it lacked the physical intensity of past offaly finals i had seen, the current rynaghs version appearing timid compared to the 70s-90s version. KK dominated both halves, their finishing was dire in the opening 15 mins, the number ten who you are all commending for his scoring, missing 2 very soft early frees....yes he was great when he had the wind in the second half, when things were tight in the first i thought currams was the leader of the attack. on my calculation rynaghs converted 10 out of 11 scoring chances in the first half, they did not deserve the half time lead. second half KK used the elements and once they took the lead, rynaghs lost all shape and their full forward line had no real opportunity on goal in the final 20 mins. on the balance of play KK were a 10 point better team. the lack of fight in rynaghs was the big surprise to me, and based on what i saw today i would say they will be waiting for some time to win the senior title again.
i dont know the politics involved, if any, but why was brian gavin not reffing today, is he involved with either club. i dont rate carroll at all as a ref, seen him in plenty of intercounty action and think he gives cards for nothing and useless if a major incident occurs. his sending off of the galway minor full back this year was lamentable and shameful. today he was very very hard on rynaghs....when KK were struggling to convert their dominance from open play, carroll offered plenty of soft frees, very poor refereeing. if it had been a closer call then rynaghs would have been entitled to be aggrieved by his performance....in my view the guy who reffed the minor game would have made a better fist of things.
KK could easily get to a leinster final, though i think they are limited and their defense could be hammered by a decent forward line such as ballyhale if they come out of kilkenny.
from an inter county perspective, as someone who accepts that laois have reached the rock bottom with few silver clouds on the horizon, not much that i saw today suggests to me that offaly have the material coming through to resurrect the golden era. in laois we have had a number of tame/nice county finals and they have coincided with the inter county team in the doldrums, i left OCP today thinking was offaly heading down the same path.
one final thought, the lads in coolderry and birr must be scratching their heads tonight as i still believe, based on challenge games they played this year, that both are superior to the finalists today.
i thought the offaly county minors were poor this year, not a good sign for the future. the minor final today was poor fare, i have no idea how a very young weak looking shinrone team managed to get to the final, maybe they had a handy draw along the way. few if any future stars on show in this game. i did like the jesus christ lookalike ref, he let it flow and of all the participants in the first game, he may have the brightest future.
the second game, it was an entertaining game. it lacked the physical intensity of past offaly finals i had seen, the current rynaghs version appearing timid compared to the 70s-90s version. KK dominated both halves, their finishing was dire in the opening 15 mins, the number ten who you are all commending for his scoring, missing 2 very soft early frees....yes he was great when he had the wind in the second half, when things were tight in the first i thought currams was the leader of the attack. on my calculation rynaghs converted 10 out of 11 scoring chances in the first half, they did not deserve the half time lead. second half KK used the elements and once they took the lead, rynaghs lost all shape and their full forward line had no real opportunity on goal in the final 20 mins. on the balance of play KK were a 10 point better team. the lack of fight in rynaghs was the big surprise to me, and based on what i saw today i would say they will be waiting for some time to win the senior title again.
i dont know the politics involved, if any, but why was brian gavin not reffing today, is he involved with either club. i dont rate carroll at all as a ref, seen him in plenty of intercounty action and think he gives cards for nothing and useless if a major incident occurs. his sending off of the galway minor full back this year was lamentable and shameful. today he was very very hard on rynaghs....when KK were struggling to convert their dominance from open play, carroll offered plenty of soft frees, very poor refereeing. if it had been a closer call then rynaghs would have been entitled to be aggrieved by his performance....in my view the guy who reffed the minor game would have made a better fist of things.
KK could easily get to a leinster final, though i think they are limited and their defense could be hammered by a decent forward line such as ballyhale if they come out of kilkenny.
from an inter county perspective, as someone who accepts that laois have reached the rock bottom with few silver clouds on the horizon, not much that i saw today suggests to me that offaly have the material coming through to resurrect the golden era. in laois we have had a number of tame/nice county finals and they have coincided with the inter county team in the doldrums, i left OCP today thinking was offaly heading down the same path.
one final thought, the lads in coolderry and birr must be scratching their heads tonight as i still believe, based on challenge games they played this year, that both are superior to the finalists today.
Re: Hurling Championship
well to be fair offaly clubs have done well over the last few years Coolderrys hicup again westmeath champions in 2010 but they made up
for it last year by winning it Birr won in 2007, tullamore got to the leinster club final in 2009, and i know it will be the last thing in the
KK players heads today after winning their first county title and they will enjoy there win.
but they will have the Carlow winners first which will be a hard game as i remember Birr getting it hard in DR.Cullen park in the early 2000's
to come out with a win if K-K come out of that one they will have another hard one again Laois/westmeath winners in tullamore
and most of them K-K Players are well suited to hurl in O'Connor park as they have won many a underage title there.
they also put back to back minor titles yesterday and with the minors over with, i would like to see young Dylan Murray or Alan Spain
get a chance from the bench in K-K'S leinster club run i think they could well do a job later on in the year i know they are young but they have bags
of skill and talent.
as for out countyteam suckindisel yes we are way off the pace of the 80's 90's sides and got the short straw in the draw for the championship
but we beat wexford this year and only for a poor opening 15 minutes again Galway we scored was it 3-16 again the team that took kilkenny to
a replay, after beating them in the leinster final, also had to play cork again away and were unlucky for the second year around.
so not been smart we might not have won or win all irelands but i think will will might have to fall a little lower before we reach laois level.
for it last year by winning it Birr won in 2007, tullamore got to the leinster club final in 2009, and i know it will be the last thing in the
KK players heads today after winning their first county title and they will enjoy there win.
but they will have the Carlow winners first which will be a hard game as i remember Birr getting it hard in DR.Cullen park in the early 2000's
to come out with a win if K-K come out of that one they will have another hard one again Laois/westmeath winners in tullamore
and most of them K-K Players are well suited to hurl in O'Connor park as they have won many a underage title there.
they also put back to back minor titles yesterday and with the minors over with, i would like to see young Dylan Murray or Alan Spain
get a chance from the bench in K-K'S leinster club run i think they could well do a job later on in the year i know they are young but they have bags
of skill and talent.
as for out countyteam suckindisel yes we are way off the pace of the 80's 90's sides and got the short straw in the draw for the championship
but we beat wexford this year and only for a poor opening 15 minutes again Galway we scored was it 3-16 again the team that took kilkenny to
a replay, after beating them in the leinster final, also had to play cork again away and were unlucky for the second year around.
so not been smart we might not have won or win all irelands but i think will will might have to fall a little lower before we reach laois level.
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Lone Shark
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Re: Hurling Championship
I'll put up a more detailed post on the match when i get time later, but I just wanted to pick up on this post:
There may have been a few cards given out, but they were either soft or stupid. Ciarán Flannery's frontal charge on a K/K defender when the ball was there to be won was bone-headed and it was hugely costly - it was potentially a two point swing at a critical time. That's not controlled intensity, that losing your head. When K/K started to push on midway through the third quarter, it didn't matter where Conor Clancy put his puckout, it was going to be a green jersey that came up with the ball. Rynaghs were working with scraps, they were physically dominated, and the fact that no-one in blue stepped up to claim a ball, even if they did turn around and drive the thing wide, was critical. Rynaghs needed a rallying point, be it a point from distance, a big (legitimate!) hit, a high catch, whatever. None of their bigger guys were able to provide it.
This year Laois beat us at minor level, and would probably have beaten us at under-21 too, based on results. More Offaly club sides need to start producing high quality, intense hurling in order to raise the standard, and Rynaghs didn't do that yesterday. That's not trying to hang the Banagher lads on the basis of one bad day, they did produce arguably the best performance of the year against Coolderry after all, but midway through the second half I observed to a friend that the main reason why K/K would win that game was because it wasn't being played like a county final, it was being played like a round robin game - and K/K are very good at round robin games. Hopefully, they'll be better at knockout hurling too from now on, based on this result. Either way, the lack of intensity was apparent.
I'm not trying to cause a row, but that's the kind of condescending shite that has allowed us to freefall as far as we have and it would be silly not to pick up on it. Maybe we might be a notch or two above Laois now - which from reading his post, is not something that suckindiesel would disagree with - but his/her point was that the game lacked intensity, and that it wasn't a great sign for the future, which I personally think is a very good observation and a legitimate point.townman wrote: so not been smart we might not have won or win all irelands but i think will will might have to fall a little lower before we reach laois level.
There may have been a few cards given out, but they were either soft or stupid. Ciarán Flannery's frontal charge on a K/K defender when the ball was there to be won was bone-headed and it was hugely costly - it was potentially a two point swing at a critical time. That's not controlled intensity, that losing your head. When K/K started to push on midway through the third quarter, it didn't matter where Conor Clancy put his puckout, it was going to be a green jersey that came up with the ball. Rynaghs were working with scraps, they were physically dominated, and the fact that no-one in blue stepped up to claim a ball, even if they did turn around and drive the thing wide, was critical. Rynaghs needed a rallying point, be it a point from distance, a big (legitimate!) hit, a high catch, whatever. None of their bigger guys were able to provide it.
This year Laois beat us at minor level, and would probably have beaten us at under-21 too, based on results. More Offaly club sides need to start producing high quality, intense hurling in order to raise the standard, and Rynaghs didn't do that yesterday. That's not trying to hang the Banagher lads on the basis of one bad day, they did produce arguably the best performance of the year against Coolderry after all, but midway through the second half I observed to a friend that the main reason why K/K would win that game was because it wasn't being played like a county final, it was being played like a round robin game - and K/K are very good at round robin games. Hopefully, they'll be better at knockout hurling too from now on, based on this result. Either way, the lack of intensity was apparent.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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shannonbanks14
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Re: Hurling Championship
Well done KK, every dog has to have his day.The KK subs did well and made a difference, hopefully we'll be back with what is still a very young team and not get hit with emigration.Not a bad year getting to intermediate and senior finals, it shows hurling is strong in the parish and offaly needs it to be.
Re: Hurling Championship
Congratulations to K-K (a nod to POTH)! I listened to the game on the radio yesterday, as I was unable to attend. Sometimes you could be listening to the match and have one vision of what type of game it was and then talk to someone who was at it and their description was be totally different. The boys did their best, but surely Midlands Radio could do better. My favourite line from yesterday was "The ball is on the hospital side of the field, and while I have a moment, I'd like to take this opportunity to say hello to everyone in their, I hope you are all keeping well". If they were all keeping well, etc...
I'd say this is the furthest thing from K-K minds at this stage, but the match against the Carlow champions is going to be a real test. The Carlow final will be on 21st October, between Mount Leinster Rangers and Erins Own, after their semi final victories yesterday: Erins Own 4-10 Ballinkillen 2-06; MLR 0-15 Naomh Eoin 0-09. If MLR come through that one, they are really going to be a huge challenge and I would actually rate them as favourites to win the game. they have huge experience in Leinster over the past few years, including winning the All Ireland Intermediate in Croke Park last year (hence gaining Carlow teams the right to play in Senior). I believe that such experience at the post-county championship level is vital. So, K-K enjoy the celebrations but don't get carried away... give Leinster the proper respect it deserves!
But, do spend a week or so, celebrating the greatest achievement of your lives first. Well done!
I'd say this is the furthest thing from K-K minds at this stage, but the match against the Carlow champions is going to be a real test. The Carlow final will be on 21st October, between Mount Leinster Rangers and Erins Own, after their semi final victories yesterday: Erins Own 4-10 Ballinkillen 2-06; MLR 0-15 Naomh Eoin 0-09. If MLR come through that one, they are really going to be a huge challenge and I would actually rate them as favourites to win the game. they have huge experience in Leinster over the past few years, including winning the All Ireland Intermediate in Croke Park last year (hence gaining Carlow teams the right to play in Senior). I believe that such experience at the post-county championship level is vital. So, K-K enjoy the celebrations but don't get carried away... give Leinster the proper respect it deserves!
But, do spend a week or so, celebrating the greatest achievement of your lives first. Well done!
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Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Hurling Championship
THANKS for that insight. Seriously. It is alway good to get the views of an outsider. Puts alot of perspective on the state of us.
suckindiesel wrote:as an independent foreigner at the games today i will give a few thoughts. good attendance, 7700 i think they said and 15 euros a fair price. and i know this is a bugbear of some, o connor park is head and shoulders above birr, and counties like offaly cannot afford and do not need more than one stadium. creating white elephants for use once or twice a year is profligate in these times.
i thought the offaly county minors were poor this year, not a good sign for the future. the minor final today was poor fare, i have no idea how a very young weak looking shinrone team managed to get to the final, maybe they had a handy draw along the way. few if any future stars on show in this game. i did like the jesus christ lookalike ref, he let it flow and of all the participants in the first game, he may have the brightest future.
the second game, it was an entertaining game. it lacked the physical intensity of past offaly finals i had seen, the current rynaghs version appearing timid compared to the 70s-90s version. KK dominated both halves, their finishing was dire in the opening 15 mins, the number ten who you are all commending for his scoring, missing 2 very soft early frees....yes he was great when he had the wind in the second half, when things were tight in the first i thought currams was the leader of the attack. on my calculation rynaghs converted 10 out of 11 scoring chances in the first half, they did not deserve the half time lead. second half KK used the elements and once they took the lead, rynaghs lost all shape and their full forward line had no real opportunity on goal in the final 20 mins. on the balance of play KK were a 10 point better team. the lack of fight in rynaghs was the big surprise to me, and based on what i saw today i would say they will be waiting for some time to win the senior title again.
i dont know the politics involved, if any, but why was brian gavin not reffing today, is he involved with either club. i dont rate carroll at all as a ref, seen him in plenty of intercounty action and think he gives cards for nothing and useless if a major incident occurs. his sending off of the galway minor full back this year was lamentable and shameful. today he was very very hard on rynaghs....when KK were struggling to convert their dominance from open play, carroll offered plenty of soft frees, very poor refereeing. if it had been a closer call then rynaghs would have been entitled to be aggrieved by his performance....in my view the guy who reffed the minor game would have made a better fist of things.
KK could easily get to a leinster final, though i think they are limited and their defense could be hammered by a decent forward line such as ballyhale if they come out of kilkenny.
from an inter county perspective, as someone who accepts that laois have reached the rock bottom with few silver clouds on the horizon, not much that i saw today suggests to me that offaly have the material coming through to resurrect the golden era. in laois we have had a number of tame/nice county finals and they have coincided with the inter county team in the doldrums, i left OCP today thinking was offaly heading down the same path.
one final thought, the lads in coolderry and birr must be scratching their heads tonight as i still believe, based on challenge games they played this year, that both are superior to the finalists today.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
Re: Hurling Championship
Surely if intensity in hurling in Offaly is an issue then the championship structure needs to be completely overhauled.4 from 6 is too much in the group stages and I would think it leads to teams saving themselves and not pushing as hard as they possibly can all year.You can lose 3 matches and still win the county championship which Tullamore did, you can lose 4 matches and win if results went a teams way.Having a more do or die nature to the group stages would be better preparation for players stepping up to county level.Lone Shark wrote:I'll put up a more detailed post on the match when i get time later, but I just wanted to pick up on this post:
townman wrote:
This year Laois beat us at minor level, and would probably have beaten us at under-21 too, based on results. More Offaly club sides need to start producing high quality, intense hurling in order to raise the standard, and Rynaghs didn't do that yesterday. That's not trying to hang the Banagher lads on the basis of one bad day, they did produce arguably the best performance of the year against Coolderry after all, but midway through the second half I observed to a friend that the main reason why K/K would win that game was because it wasn't being played like a county final, it was being played like a round robin game - and K/K are very good at round robin games. Hopefully, they'll be better at knockout hurling too from now on, based on this result. Either way, the lack of intensity was apparent.
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Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Hurling Championship
I think in all grades there are going to be matches which teams are going to target as matches they simply have to be at their best, and there are matches they know they can ‘save themselves’, either by not fully extending themselves or by not risking a player who is carrying a knock. Whether there are four Senior clubs or 14, there is going to be a ‘hierarchy’ of stronger teams (at the moment that would be K-K, Coolderry, Birr) and there are teams whose target is survival at that grade. That’s the same in any county, and is the same at inter-county. If anyone can show me a county which has eight or more title contenders at any one time then I’m all ears. Dammit there’s about 20 teams in British soccerball and most know well they won't be title contenders.
County Finals in all grades are nearly always played at an intensity beyond anything else in that grade in that year. This is true from Senior down to Junior B. It is also the case whether there is a knockout championship or a round-robin. I think the point Lone Shark is making (and I was the friend who was in his company) was that yesterday’s lacked the intensity of a Final. Suckindiesel more or less concurs. And I don’t know why this is. St Rynagh’s played without belief in that second-half.
That the round-robin stages lacked the intensity of a Final is a separate matter altogether. DAF, you use the example of Tullamore hurlers. Their record in the round-robin stages in 2009, and since, might have left alot to be desired, but they turned on the heat on K-K in the 2009 Final and in the 2010 semi-final, and on Birr in the 2009 semi-final and the 2010 quarter-final. So whatever happened in the group stages had no adverse affect on their ability to give performances of the upmost intensity when it was needed.
County Finals in all grades are nearly always played at an intensity beyond anything else in that grade in that year. This is true from Senior down to Junior B. It is also the case whether there is a knockout championship or a round-robin. I think the point Lone Shark is making (and I was the friend who was in his company) was that yesterday’s lacked the intensity of a Final. Suckindiesel more or less concurs. And I don’t know why this is. St Rynagh’s played without belief in that second-half.
That the round-robin stages lacked the intensity of a Final is a separate matter altogether. DAF, you use the example of Tullamore hurlers. Their record in the round-robin stages in 2009, and since, might have left alot to be desired, but they turned on the heat on K-K in the 2009 Final and in the 2010 semi-final, and on Birr in the 2009 semi-final and the 2010 quarter-final. So whatever happened in the group stages had no adverse affect on their ability to give performances of the upmost intensity when it was needed.
DAF wrote:Surely if intensity in hurling in Offaly is an issue then the championship structure needs to be completely overhauled.4 from 6 is too much in the group stages and I would think it leads to teams saving themselves and not pushing as hard as they possibly can all year.You can lose 3 matches and still win the county championship which Tullamore did, you can lose 4 matches and win if results went a teams way.Having a more do or die nature to the group stages would be better preparation for players stepping up to county level.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
Re: Kilcormac-Killoughey 2-16 St Rynagh's 2-12
Fully Agree POTH. The reasoning behind Rynaghs managements idea on playing a 3rd midfielder when with that strong wind was baffling to say the least. Healion was in his element when really he should have been worried sick with ball raining down on them and scales and quirke lurking off the breaks. It obviously would have been a wise move in a second half but i thought it was hurling suicide on the managements part to do it in the 1st half. KK had a much stronger bench too and the lads they brought on improved things. The Grogans did well, as did young Geraghty and Mark Leonard when introduced. Leonard broke even with Gary Kelly at wing back and then Kelly was moved from where he was playing exceptionally well winning ball and coming on to the play. If the man of the match was picked at half time, Kelly would have got it. He created scores and scored himself. Leonard just got stuck in morer than geraghty and it worked and nullified a significant part of their plan as Clancy had no option on the puckout after and the KK boys began to mop up on the breaks with their physical strength.Plain of the Herbs wrote:I expected much more of St Rynagh’s today. It is commonplace for a team playing into the wind to play with a third midfielder but today was one of the few times I have seem a team play a third midfielder when hurling with the wind. And so they proceeded to hit ball after ball to an unmarked Healion.
The game bypassed Horan too. Now if he was injured he was an odd choice to bring outfield. I don’t know about all this talk of a ‘fitness test’. James Skehill failed his fitness test last week and still played in the All-Ireland. Not that that makes it right that Skehill should have played.
Danny Owens got all his calls right. Dinny Cahill and his team of ‘referee counsellors’ got theirs wrong, with the exception of switching Camon and Wynne. Kevin Grogan scored a critical goal, Geraghty scored a point (I think?), Mark Leonard scored and John Grogan and Killian Leonard all made a contribution.
On the other side, Fergus Shortt simply shouldn’t have been replaced. The reaction of the crowd told everything about Seán Dolan’s substitution. Gary Healy is a worker and was needed further outfield instead of full-forward. Awful stuff.
Thought too that the ref had a poor game giving a lot KK's way and Banagher couldnt buy a free at times. Rynaghs will get chances again given their quality and their youth but this one might have been the one to win as the KKs know well and for that reason and their previous losses, im delighted for the KKs, its been a long time coming.... Rynaghs really need to get a lot of their lads bulked up a bit as i felt they were found wanting a little in the physical stakes at times...
Be interesting to see how KK go in the junior football after the week they are about to have....Clara will be licking their lips....
jimbob