Offaly v Kilkenny '07 - John McIntyre on ref intimidation

[Bord na Mona man]

Did anyone hear John McIntyre on 'Championship Matters' last night?

He talked about the time Offaly played Kilkenny in Portlaoise in 2007. At half time Offaly were amazingly only one point behind with Damien Murray having just converted a penalty. As the teams came off, McIntyre said that Brian Cody and Kilkenny county secretary Ned Quinn nabbed the referee Michael Wadding and read him the riot act. They let him know in no uncertain terms that he was giving too many frees to Offaly.

According to McIntyre, come the second half, Offaly didn’t get too many frees.

I assume Wadding must have mistakenly thought that pulling, dragging, head high tackles, frontal charges and wrestling were illegal and needed to be set straight.

Joking aside, surely that sort of intimidation of officials is out of order? Whatever about hot headed managers, county officials (sitting on National hurling development committees) should know better.

[townman]

didn't offaly finish with14 men that day was it kevin brady sent off, plus Cody must have said something to the offaly players to
wasn't there 20 odd points in it at the end

[Bord na Mona man]

It was Derek Molloy who got sent off and the final margin was 14 points.

[DAF]

Why didnt McIntyre go in and do the same as Cody to balance things up?

Why werent Cody and Ned Quinn reported by somebody for intimidating the referee?

[corner back]

They would have been reported if they were intimidating the referee.

McIntyre is a waffler. Always looking for excuses. Galway's progress this year with a decent managaer over most of the same players that lost lamely a year ago in Tullamore against the Dubs reflects badly on him.

[manfromdelmonte]

and of course Cody (and other Kilkenny officials and backroom staff - eg physical trainer Dempsey) has been in the papers the last few weeks basically setting the tone for the hurling final.
he does it every year coming up to a big game.

maybe if he came out and said that the referee should implement the rules that are there, for the protection of players?

But no, Cody thinks its a man's game and that games should be let flow. i.e. let a lot of stuff go. which would favour kilkenny's more physical style.

[Daleamar]

and of course Cody (and other Kilkenny officials and backroom staff - eg physical trainer Dempsey) has been in the papers the last few weeks basically setting the tone for the hurling final.
he does it every year coming up to a big game.

maybe if he came out and said that the referee should implement the rules that are there, for the protection of players?

But no, Cody thinks its a man's game and that games should be let flow. i.e. let a lot of stuff go. which would favour kilkenny's more physical style.

He has put the spotlight on the referee, taking all the focus from his players. Lifting the pressure. Brilliant management for two reasons.

[Bord na Mona man]

Why didnt McIntyre go in and do the same as Cody to balance things up?

Yes, he should have. Jump in, tell the pair where to fup off with themselves.
Then point out that Offaly in fact aren't getting half enough frees and start flinging as much as he could back at them.
Sidetrack the whole event by diverting it to a manager vs. manager row.

Why werent Cody and Ned Quinn reported by somebody for intimidating the referee?

Reporting it would have been pointless. The result would obviously stand. No benefit would have come to Offaly if the culprits were reprimanded (unlikely). The authorities are not interested in pursuing verbal squabbles, especially as the ref wouldn't have reported it.

The hurling public would see it as sour grapes from a beaten team and you'd give Kilkenny another decade worth of motivation to bury Offaly.

Cody and Quinn needn't have bothered getting so worked up, as Kilkenny were always going to get the run on Offaly and steamroll them.

[Bord na Mona man]

and of course Cody (and other Kilkenny officials and backroom staff - eg physical trainer Dempsey) has been in the papers the last few
But no, Cody thinks its a man's game and that games should be let flow. i.e. let a lot of stuff go. which would favour kilkenny's more physical style.

There is one very obvious way of ensuring the 'game is allowed flow' and I'm surprised no one has thought of it yet...
Quite simply - don't bend, stretch and break the rules in the first place.

Then it won't matter what sort of ref there is, the play will flow.

[the weasel]

and of course Cody (and other Kilkenny officials and backroom staff - eg physical trainer Dempsey) has been in the papers the last few
But no, Cody thinks its a man's game and that games should be let flow. i.e. let a lot of stuff go. which would favour kilkenny's more physical style.

There is one very obvious way of ensuring the 'game is allowed flow' and I'm surprised no one has thought of it yet...
Quite simply - don't bend, stretch and break the rules in the first place.

Then it won't matter what sort of ref there is, the play will flow.

But the thing about hurling is that the rules are for interpretation. The rules dont give a breakdown of whats a foul or not. I personally as a player and fan rather the way the refs are awarding frees over the last few years, putting more emphasise on the ball carrier than the tackler. In the past the man with the ball only had to run at the tackler, throw his hands in the air and get a free. Now if he tries to do it he knows he will have to be held or pulled down or actually break the tackle. All of this can be said for football also. Kilkenny win most of the time because they have the best team.

Yes the interpretation of the rules has changed but I think its for the better and I dont think its influenced by Kilkenny.

[manfromdelmonte]

read the rulebook

its where you'll find what a foul is. they are well enough defined.

(i'm always amazed by the amount of people who have never seen a GAA playing rulebook. never mind read it)

the non-implementation of rules I have a big problem with are:
charging - you cannot put the head down and bore into a fella. (richie power). its not rugby. the emphasis should be on the ball carrier to side step his marker
high hurley - players ducking in the head and then looking to wrap the hurley arm around their neck. it wasn't a high tackle until the ball carrier did that!
under a high ball using the hurley to barge a players helmet/head out of the way so ensuring he won't get the jump.
steps. it is four steps. not 5, 6 or even 7 as most players seem to get away with now.
handpasses. unless there is clear daylight between the hand and the sliotar, it should be a foul. there should also be a definite striking action.
throwing the ball out in front of you after you've two touches taken and lifting it again (shefflin)

[ryot]

Best player for steps this year, D Hayes. He averages about 10 and I have yet to see him pulled for it

[Bord na Mona man]

and of course Cody (and other Kilkenny officials and backroom staff - eg physical trainer Dempsey) has been in the papers the last few
But no, Cody thinks its a man's game and that games should be let flow. i.e. let a lot of stuff go. which would favour kilkenny's more physical style.

There is one very obvious way of ensuring the 'game is allowed flow' and I'm surprised no one has thought of it yet...
Quite simply - don't bend, stretch and break the rules in the first place.

Then it won't matter what sort of ref there is, the play will flow.

But the thing about hurling is that the rules are for interpretation. The rules dont give a breakdown of whats a foul or not. I personally as a player and fan rather the way the refs are awarding frees over the last few years, putting more emphasise on the ball carrier than the tackler. In the past the man with the ball only had to run at the tackler, throw his hands in the air and get a free. Now if he tries to do it he knows he will have to be held or pulled down or actually break the tackle. All of this can be said for football also. Kilkenny win most of the time because they have the best team.

Yes the interpretation of the rules has changed but I think its for the better and I dont think its influenced by Kilkenny.

The rules aren't supposed to be interpreted. It's just that several of them aren't being enforced.
In gaelic games, the ref isn't supposed to have the same scope to apply rules at his own discretion, like a rugby referee does for example. It seems to just happen that way.

In hurling the major problems I see it are ball carriers charging and the tacklers using the spare arm to drag them back. These are clearly illegal in the rule book, with no ambiguity, or interpretation needed.

I think it needs to be at least discussed at official level rather than just have it shouted down by 'let the game flow' blarney merchants. If the consensus is that spare arm wrestling should become a legitimate tackle in hurling, then write it into the rulebook, or else decide to penalise it. Don't just ignore it.

All said, Barry Kelly did a great job yesterday. Thankfully he ignored the pre-match attempts to railroad him and wasn't afraid to penalise fouls. And the game did flow. Both teams quickly realised it wasn't going to descend to pro-wrestling and got on with the hurling.

And give the players credit. Most of them would prefer to win games with the skills they learned hitting the ball off the gable end wall, rather than through gym and tackle bag sessions.

The current issues in hurling have been caused by poor officialdom and opportunistic coaching, rather than players setting out to spoil at their own behest.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Would Barry Kelly have given that last free if the game had been a draw??? No way is my answer, but just shows you how human nature plays a role in making these decisions. And tis the same in professional sport, how many times do you hear Giles saying about penalty incidents that, that would be a foul in any other area of the pitch?
Personally have to say that you can only admire Kilkenny for their resilience. So many of their players were not going well yesterday but kept at it. My man of the match would have been Paul Murphy who had some second half. Shefflin is the greatest hurler ever and that performance in the second half was superb.
For the next day Galway wil have the benefit of playing in a senior All ireland, and this should stand to them, but they will need to bring their A game for the whole game next time!!!