Offaly vs Cork - SHC Qualifier Rnd 2 07/07/2012

[durra1]

Did anyone apart from the camogie team actually travel to Cork for the game? If I was there I’d be crowing about it! The game being live on Newstalk, swayed it for this particular half-ass merchant.

It’s no solace to think that the difference on the day appeared to have been a bit of composure in front of goal and a few subs of the standard that could push the starters for their places as with most of the top counties.

Baker should be commended for a big call in bring in Sean Ryan against a lauded Cork midfield pairing. He’s a good example of the resourcefulness and versatility in a player that we badly need right now. We saw against Wexford that he’s probably not up to the standard of some of our bigger name players in terms of stick-manship but he’s a fair strike when he hits it, he can win dirty ball and he can move.

Baker (if he stays) needs to look quickly and identify options from our very limited pool of young players.

I’m talking Sean Coughlan, David Magner, Eanna Murphy, possibly Eoin Ryan. Maybe look at a few lads who are making Brosna Gaels and Shinrone tick at the moment. Baker / Cunningham are in a position to mix it up and not be beholden to the established clubs. Lads with guts who can secure possession and serve the stickmen. Galway had a few of them yesterday – they look like lords when conditioned and motivated, but some of them are plain janes when it comes to skill.

Slow-burning conditioning programmes need to start as soon as the SHC finishes before next season’s panel for the league is even picked. Why wait till November/December? Irla Tannion and Joe Canning were like beached whales last year and they’re like whippets now.

I think a few critics of Baker will have to reassess their posts on this forum to date in light of Galway’s performance yesterday. He’s been severely hampered this year in his options in the full back line and on reflection, that’s what really what killed us. Corner back is the one position where a versatile player cannot just slip into. You’re born a corner back. There’s been a lot of talk here about our inability to secure primary possession in the air. It appeared in three championship games that we have a real problem at times in securing primary possession when our backs are over a ball. A lot of tippy-tappy stuff on the floor preceded many of the Cork scores yesterday. That’s not a difficult skill to perfect. Make yourself big, shield the ball and know where you opponent is coming at you from. Hanamy was a genius at it.

We can expect retirements. Wouldn’t want to speculate as to who. The older statesmen on the side owe the jersey nothing given the era they hurled though. Top heavy on the heartache and short changed on the glory.

Congrats to Eoin Kelly on a very impressive debut. He appeared to vary his puck outs nicely as well as pull off a serious save in the second half. To echo POTH praise for David Kenny – the man played a captains part – remember Waterford game in Thurles 08).

The doom and gloom after the Galway game has somewhat lifted over the Big Top behind Pairc Ui Caoimhs town end. Maybe it’s not all that bad?

[Toxicity234]

I was down at the match. Very disappointed that we didn't win this game.
We had Cork Reeling in the 1st half and if we had taking the chances that came our way we could have put up a great scoreline. Bergin and Dooley were making there men look like junior hurlers. We were winning the Midfield battle and our half back were awesome.
The Cork Lads around me were in awe of Horan, Hanniffy and Morkan and the ball they were giving to the inside forward line.

Wadding was shocking. Cork should have being down a Man before half time but Wadding bottle it.
Pulling up Sean Ryan for Steps when he was in on goal was a s**t call when he was foul picking the ball. The Cork Penalty was a shocking call. I could go on but let just say as an Offaly man i wouldn't be buying him a pint anytime soon.

Tactical we were much better than against Galway, Hanniffy drop closer to Kenny, and Brady picked up the middle. It was a smart plan and work very well. With Ryan leaving Sweetman and McLoughlin chasing his shadows.
Leave Bergin and Dooley as the inside forward line work great as well.
The two lines we had problems in were half forwards but it should be pointed out that Egan was excellent all evening, He won any ball that came his way and cover a lot of ground up and down the field and Molloy did ok when he came on and our Full back line look a bit nervous at times.
Kelly in goals was excellent.

The real disappointing thing was Baker interview there was no disappointment at being out of the Championship in July. From his comment we only went to Cork to see if we could test this young cork team. Like we were there to make up the number and we never had a chance for winning.
If that what he really thinks he shouldn’t be managing Offaly.

Congrts to Galway. I didn’t go across the city to watch it, I was wrecked from drive to and from Cork the day before. 550 Km and a match in 6 hours I was wrecked. Canning was on fire with 1-10 and also made a few important turnovers in the middle of the park in the 10 mins before half time. Galway team play was great there was no stand back and the Galway Forwards were outstanding at slowing the ball coming from the Kilkenny Defence. I can’t remember a Kilkenny Defender having an easy clearance all afternoon.
If you defend as a team the opposition has 15 men to get through not just 6 or 3.

[durra1]

The (limited) Sunday Game highlights ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPEuTvpIihw

[Bord na Mona man]

A soft penalty and pulling up Sean Ryan for steps looked harsh.
Can anyone describe what the Cork off the ball striking incident was like at the end of the first half?

[RealFaithful]

Was there on Saturday evening. I think , like myself, most of the crowd missed the incident as the ball had just been cleared by the Offaly backs.

Heard from one of the Offaly players afterwards that the referee openly said at the time the yellow card was for "striking with the hurl".

I had always thought this was a straight red offence

[llkj]

I've looked 5 or 6 times now but I'm still not sure about how the Offaly goal actually went in. Looked like Colin Egan's initial shot was batted out by the keeper, Egan then jumped to swing at the ball again and missed, however while falling to the ground his trailing foot volleyed the ball to the net. Is this what happened or am I going mad?

[Bord na Mona man]

Was there on Saturday evening. I think , like myself, most of the crowd missed the incident as the ball had just been cleared by the Offaly backs.

Heard from one of the Offaly players afterwards that the referee openly said at the time the yellow card was for "striking with the hurl".

I had always thought this was a straight red offence

In theory striking is a straight card.
In reality it all depends on how hard you hit the lad, where you hit him and how far away the ball was.

[durra1]

To me Egan did connect with it.

It took a weird almost Wim Keift in Euro 88-style spinning bounce around the Nash.

[High School Musical]

Striking with the hurl, a pure cowardly act.
Does he think that makes him a man?

Tell me lads, what makes a man?
He’ll give you all his heart
He’ll smile when you're around
And cry when you're apart

If you know what makes a man
Wanna love you the way I do
Girl you gotta let me know
So I can get over you.....

[llkj]

To me Egan did connect with it.

It took a weird almost Wim Keift in Euro 88-style spinning bounce around the Nash.

You're right. On further inspection I see that he did connect with the stick.

[Kevin]

The penalty?

Trying to figure it out. The handle of the hurl held by our back seems to come down on the shoulder of the Cork player making the catch, but it looked like both were playing the ball.

I did not seem as thought the the contact disrupted the play in any way.

Could it have been something else?

Strange.

[Pot Noodle]

Taking a cursory glance through some of the posts here, I haven't seen anything about the players' social habits, which left a lot to be desired this year and is something that needs to be highlighted.
Discipline and application off the field has been slack. A large number of players going on a three-day bender having been lucky to beat the worst Wexford team since the 1940s (think about it for a few seconds, it's true) is evidence of that, particularly as the Galway game was only two weeks later. Compare that to Tipperary, where Padraic Maher was lambasted by Declan Ryan in front of his teammates for having a few drinks the day after the Limerick game, with reference also being made to the arse he was carrying. And Ryan's set-up isn't nearly as good as Liam Sheedy's was.
A number of players were also on a session in Galway the weekend before the Cork game. These are just two random examples - there are more - but I find the second one in particlar the most galling. The footballers have been pilloried - rightly so - for their social habits in recent years but the hurlers aren't the alter boys they're made out to be either. I'm not saying all of them are at this, but a lot of them clearly are. I don't advocate blanket drinking bans but it's been over the top this year. Yes, they are putting in an effort and making sacrifices but they're undermining it nonetheless. People may point to the team of the 1990s having a good time but that was different as virtually every team was at it back then to varying degrees.
I don't doubt that once the game started on Saturday that the players tried their very best but, for what it's worth, Cork outscored Offaly by 0-14 to 1-3 in the last half hour. Hope the session(s) was worth it lads.
If there is any hope of Offaly matching the exploits of the top teams on the field in the future, surely we must strive to match them off it first.

[joe bloggs]

Taking a cursory glance through some of the posts here, I haven't seen anything about the players' social habits, which left a lot to be desired this year and is something that needs to be highlighted.
Discipline and application off the field has been slack. A large number of players going on a three-day bender having been lucky to beat the worst Wexford team since the 1940s (think about it for a few seconds, it's true) is evidence of that, particularly as the Galway game was only two weeks later. Compare that to Tipperary, where Padraic Maher was lambasted by Declan Ryan in front of his teammates for having a few drinks the day after the Limerick game, with reference also being made to the arse he was carrying. And Ryan's set-up isn't nearly as good as Liam Sheedy's was.
A number of players were also on a session in Galway the weekend before the Cork game. These are just two random examples - there are more - but I find the second one in particlar the most galling. The footballers have been pilloried - rightly so - for their social habits in recent years but the hurlers aren't the alter boys they're made out to be either. I'm not saying all of them are at this, but a lot of them clearly are. I don't advocate blanket drinking bans but it's been over the top this year. Yes, they are putting in an effort and making sacrifices but they're undermining it nonetheless. People may point to the team of the 1990s having a good time but that was different as virtually every team was at it back then to varying degrees.
I don't doubt that once the game started on Saturday that the players tried their very best but, for what it's worth, Cork outscored Offaly by 0-14 to 1-3 in the last half hour. Hope the session(s) was worth it lads.
If there is any hope of Offaly matching the exploits of the top teams on the field in the future, surely we must strive to match them off it first.

Too many lads have serious hang Ups about players going for a few pints.

Look at the rugby world cup where players from the all bblacks went out on the lash, yet it didn't stop them from winning.

Look at the premiership where each weekend after their matches players hit the town.

once the players present themselves in a proper state at the next training session after a big match then there is absolutely no problem in them going out and enjoying themselves. What is the point of all the sacrifices they have to make if they can't go out and enjoy themselves every now and again.
Remember too we are talking about amateurs and they are young men so to expect them to sit at home all year long is unrealistic imo

[durra1]

The issue raise by Pot Noodle really deserves its own thread.

There’s a massive issue here regarding amateurism and personal liberties v.s the standards set by peers in other counties, especially the successful ones.

It’s as much a cultural thing and it’s a generational thing. You don’t have to be working in astrophysics to work it out:-
Player Type A : 18-25 , College , working in a handy enough job with not too much responsibilities, Single, if working has disposable income.

Player Type B ; 25 + , steady employment, steady girlfriend or wife, possibly kids, possibly mortgage.

Who is more likely to be on a three day bender or on lush trips to Galway this time of the year? Obviously its player A.

Why does Player A really want to do these things? Because most of his mates and social scene outside of hurling are doing it. Because he wants to chase women. Because he sees what Player B’s generation is doing (or not doing) and doesn’t want to miss an opportunity to live life a bit when he can.

These are facts of life. Nothing Ollie Baker, Pat Teehan, Christy Cooney, Alan Shatter or The Man on the Moon can do about this.

In the English Premiership Rugby , a match day squad is picked on a Tuesday for the following Saturday and non-squad member are allowed out on the Wednesday or Thursday nights provided they show up on time for training on Friday. During the six nations, the Irish squad will hit the sauce in the after match luncheons religiously after every game.

GAA players are expected to work 9-5 Monday to Friday, train 4 times a week in between that and probably have a match at the weekend.

Where’s the release? I see Shane Dooley is asking people on Twitter what TV programmes he would recommend as he’s all done on Sopranos and season series etc. Like, there’s only so much any young man can stay and goggle at the box over a weekend after a week’s work.

Some common sense needs to prevail in the GAA world. Management are going to have to meet with players on their own level and work out reasonable parameters within which players can have a release throughout the season. And just as Christy Moores would say that can be climbing a mountain, jump in a lake , jetting off to Frhilliana or Lisdoonvearna !

It’s going to have to be taken as a given by management that younger players ought to be allowed make back-up plans (J1 summers etc.) well in advance so that if, and more than likely when, they get knocked out of the championship (as every county bar one will experience each season) they will be able to make the most out of what they have left for a summer. They should not be held up as having commitment issues for making these types of plans which they are well entitled to do.

I take the point that ,well, if KK , Tipp and Galway are staying off the beer then that naturally means we must do that too. But sadly were not comparing like with like in terms of resources and talent at our disposal and no argument to the contrary will stand up looking at our performances over the last 12 seasons.

Lads can say what they want but at the end of the day it’s an amateur game. Auld lads can crank on about “in my day we died for the jersey” and that sort of stuff but them auld lads had no problem slipping out for a skinful on a Friday night and driving home afterwards.Then at the next training session, hang around the back of the crowd doing laps and flake at a ball in a few games of backs and forward with no serious repercussions. To emphasise the point - different times.

And before people want to suggest otherwise – it’s a matter of record that Seamus Darby polished off a half bottle of brandy the night before the ’82 final!

It’s about adults meeting adults half way and working out what works out best for the collective.

[High School Musical]

Good post Durra1