Offaly Senior Hurling Management

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Joe Dooley's three years are up.

So, what say ye? Has he impressed enough over the three years to be offered time or is change needed?

[drummy]

leave him there!!

[bracknaghboy]

Joe Dooley can take this team no further. Time for a change. He has shown us that he is out of his depth tactically and when positioning players. Healion coming onto the wing last sunday.....Kenny playing wing back......looking at Brady fall around at centre forward for 50 odd minutes......leaving Parlon on the pictch......
Also you'd have to concerned that Offaly were not fired up or motivated enough last sunday. They never looked like a team that believed they would win, in fact they didn't look like a team that believed they'd give it a right good lash. Management have to take responsibility for poor positioning of players, not making the right changes and sending out the team not fired up. I can't see how Joe could further things next year, but I'm open to hearing how others feel he might.

[kinnittyman]

Personally, I feel that three years has been plenty for Joe. In three years championship progress (which is the most important thing to gauge progress by) has been minimal.

2008-beat a Limerick team that was all over the shop and lost to Waterford

2009-Flopped in Wexford Park and threw in the towel against Cork

2010-Beat Antrim, lost to Galway and Tipperary

A big positve was the promotion from Division 2 but realistically Joe got his three years and really now should gracefully move aside. Tactical and selection naivety has been clear for all to see and I can't see how a fourth year would benefit Offaly. Having said that Joe seems to have all the right friends and if he wants another year he'll get it.

So I'm going to refrain from speculating on a potential replacement until we get confirmation on Joe's position for 2011.

[first_touch]

I dont relish criticising management but I have to say last Sunday's team selection and tactics have cast a serious doubt over Joe Dooley's credentials for being retained as Offaly manager. What is needed next year is someone to 1) instil belief in the players that they can beat any opposition on any given day 2) pick the best players in their best positions and that, in my opinion, means David Kenny in a central defensive position and Rory Hanniffy in midfield and 3) get his team to take the opposition on man-to-man (which means none of this nonsense of dropping forwards back to make an extra midfielder or defender, thus revealing to everyone that you dont believe your team is good enough anyway).

Sadly, the current management showed none of the above attributes last Sunday. I would however be the first to gave credit to Joe Dooley for the progress that has been made over the 3 years. If Offaly had gone out and given Tipp a game Id say give Joe another year or more. But I doubt if he is the one to take us to the next level.

If he is kept on for another term I hope he proves me wrong!

[Bord na Mona man]

Offaly have improved bit by bit under Joe's tenure.
The team now sticks at it for the full 70 minutes and there is more intelligent and measured use of the ball than previously.
Are we underachieving with the current crop, or is there more that could be gotten out of them?
I honestly don't know.

I spent almost all of the last decade convinced that Offaly were underachieving on the field considering the players we had. But after a few years of musing that we shouldn't really be losing to Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork by 12, 15...or 31 points you start to doubt your own judgement.

[backofthenet]

I think this is a hard one to call really, he done more in his three year stint than the likes of McIntyre etc

Negatives:
We still havent made it to the last 8 of the all ireland
We havent beaten any real team of note in the three years in championship hurling
We suffered from fade outs all through out the three years
The forward line still doesnt show up on the big day when were up against it
Our Tactics and uneccesary moving of players can be our downfall in some games

Positives:
The emergence of Morkan, Rigney & Shane Dooley have shown he can bring players through
Whilst we havent made it to the last 8, we have only been stopped by Tipp, Cork & Waterford, hardly a disaster
The fade outs seem to have stopped although the fact we didnt turn up against Tipp was worrying


So I feel I would give him one more year, as far as Im concerned the Offaly team played to its absolute maximum against Galway both days, just didnt have the belief to make them pay. This year is the first in the last decade where they have shown up most days (eg both days against Galway and against Limerick) and there was a real desire and will to win. I dont think you can throw that away too lightly. There was also a renewed optimism amongst the fans through out the county, with Div 1 again next year & perhaps a better draw either in the provincial or qualifiers Offaly can make it back to Qtr or Semi final stages of the All Ireland again.

[Georgio1]

I would feel that Joe has taken them as far as he can. We hoped we had turned a corner against Galway, but the doubts really have to be there after a no show. How can ye say the fade outs have stopped?
1 Antrim- we dont set the tempo, fall behind, fightback to lead convincingly (1-08 to no score over 15 min spell), and then come within a whisker of losing
2 Galway- admire them for first 10 mins, but play some great hurling for remainder.
3 Galway- basically dont show for the first half, and somehow come within a whisker of beating them, remember they were down to 14 men for a decent spell)
4 Limerick-hurl fairly well, but so too do they, open up a 7/8 point lead, have it whittled to 2 points with 6 or 7 mins left.
4 Tipp- to my mind did not show up at all.

So what do we have, improvement from the past? Yes, but still large chunks of games where the intensity, desire, thought on the ball drops to shocking levels.
Can anyone here tell me we played to our potential against Tipp? It can happen that games just go against you but I felt there was no desire amongst any of the forwards to do the right thing when the opportunity arose. I said it already we need management in charge of teams who can think sharply and instill that sharp mentality in his team, to try to do the right thing all the time. Can Joe and his team deliver this? I dont think so, but like was said, I hope he proves me wrong.

[tipptopper25]

how about babs again????? only messing.... joe brought throught some young players.... give him another year.... maybe a new selector to keep the thing fresh... the talent is in offaly... cork and waterford are aging teams who may lose some players at the end of this year while offaly have a young team who will have learned a lot this year and could climb the pecking order if this happens...

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Good points made on both sides. No more valid than the other.

My two cents would be largely in agreement with bracknaghboy, kinnittyman, first_touch and georgio1. No need to repeat all they've said, they've done it better than I could anyway.

I firmly believe that this team is capable of more and has underachieved over the last number of years. Positional decisions (of which my opposition to some in particular (Hanniffy, Kenny) has been well documented), personnel (both on the team and in the panel) and tactics are something that this management have fallen short on. No need to be too scathing but I'd feel that Joe and his selectors have taken this team as far as they can.

There's a caveat though, an important one, and it's something people seem to have forgotten. There is no point in advocating change when the replacement could be worse. Think about it, the shortlist for the job last time held no standout candidates. In fact, some of them if appointed would have been a thundering disgrace.
Offaly County Board have a worrying track record of appointing managers (in both codes) who have no other qualifications or skills bar that they were on some winning county team once upon a time. This has invariably and predictably ended poorly (e.g Johnny P and Richie Connor).

The world has moved on and players are now more educated than their contemporaries of 20/30 years ago. They respond less to and quickly see through the bull and bluster from managers that would have sufficed in the past. Don't forget this is GPA world, professional in everything but name and the nature of how teams are prepared and trained has changed more in the last 10 years than it did in the 60 before that. I often worry that Offaly haven't kept with the times and the stories emanating from other counties camps would seem to reinforce that.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'd only like to see Joe Dooley replaced with somebody who'd be better. Sounds obvious I know but you'd be amazed how often the opposite occurs. To my mind, better would be somebody progressive and forward thinking who would bring a completely professional/modern approach to the county camp. If this excludes some of the older generation, so be it. Somebody who would surround themselves with a good team, and act almost as a delegator a la Brian Cody. And an Offaly man.

I can imagine no worse a scenario to occur than to jettison Joe Dooley only for the subsequent shortlist to consist of three archaic 'candidates', names we may have seen on numerous shortlists before, each worse than the other - immediately wiping out at least the next three years of potential progress and maybe more.

Thus to my mind the ideal solution may be to have Joe Dooley re-apply for the job, as his three years are up, along with a couple of other candidates. If Joe has done a good enough job and/or the other candidates don't impress then he can be re-appointed. To my mind it would be a fair solution for all concerned.

[Lone Shark]

Thus to my mind the ideal solution may be to have Joe Dooley re-apply for the job, as his three years are up, along with a couple of other candidates. If Joe has done a good enough job and/or the other candidates don't impress then he can be re-appointed. To my mind it would be a fair solution for all concerned.

Call it a hunch but I can't see Joe loving this idea. I agree that it's an ideal world from the point of view of the Offaly county board, but I'd say that Joe might take offence at being asked to do this. I know that if I was in his situation I'd be inclined to tell the board to back me or sack me, that they've seen enough in three years about what I'm about and that they shouldn't need to go through a process like this.

Now a reviewing interview with Joe himself is another matter, but I'd say there would be no advantage to making it a contest with other nominees involved until the county board know that the position is vacant.

Agree completely with the crux of your point though - there is no point jettisoning Joe simply to end up with another hurler from the teams of the 1990's taking his turn at the helm.

[drummy]

who are the potential replacements?? (if joe is shown the door)
Do any of ye actually believe that this team could do better under a different manager??
Give him another 2 years!

[Real Faithful]

Gotta be honest with you I am on the fence on this one

Joe has had his three years and what has been achieved ?

Good -
1. The team certainly seems more competitive now than any time in the last ten years
2. Despite the disappointing end to the year against Tipp we had our most enjoyable championship in a long time
3. A lot of young promising players have come through
4. We do appear to be making progress and another winter in Division 1 should stand to us for next year

Bad -
1. Despite improvements we still ( I feel ) tend to rely on the same three or four experienced players when the going gets tough - Hannify, Murphy and Franks being the notables.........and they are not getting any younger. How many more years would you hope to get from these players. The three in question have serious miles on the clock now as they all came onto the country team quite young.
2. At times it seems obvious what our best team and formation is but management go a different direction - Kenny at Centre Back , Hannify at midfield seems obvious
3. The Tipperary game - At half time we were 8/9 points down and playing badly but I for one actually still thought we had a good chance and expected us to throw the kitchen sink at Tipp. Unfortunately our tactics despite the wind at our backs and need to chase the game seemed quite negative. I would have thrown Hannify into the forwards and told our midfield to push on. A lot of time we seemed to have a 2 man full forward line and the Tipp full back was clearing ball after ball with ease. To me anyway it didn't make much sense

So depsite all of this I really don't know whether Joe should stay or go.
I do think we have made progress in the last three years ( certainly more than we made in the previous three years under McIntyre ) but the question is whether Joe can take us any further.............

Would a top class manager like Nicky English find us the extra 10-15% we need ? Probably - and that amount of improvement would really put us in the mix with the top teams
In fairness the chances of such a person wanting the job are probably greater now due to the work Joe has done but would our county board ever make such a decision?
Remember in 2002 - two years after contesting an All Ireland final we ended up with Fr Tom Fogarty as manager
Maybe Joes not so bad after all

[Lone Shark]

Would a top class manager like Nicky English find us the extra 10-15% we need ? Probably - and that amount of improvement would really put us in the mix with the top teams
In fairness the chances of such a person wanting the job are probably greater now due to the work Joe has done but would our county board ever make such a decision?

Flip that around for a minute though. It's all very well to look at these kind of decisions in isolation and to blame the county board for not going ahead with them, but the other side of it is that if the question was that we can get a proven manager who has won an All Ireland previously, be it Nicky, Donal O'Grady or whoever, but it'll cost ye an extra €3k per club to fund it, how many clubs would want it then? I can't see it being as unanimous if that was the case - indeed I'd probably oppose myself, both on the grounds that manageers shouldn't be paid and because we don't have the money.

[Slieve Bloom Man]

This is a tough one. I wouldn't be overly happy with Joe Dooley and would prefer for him to move on. Some of the selections just didn't make any sense. However, like others I'm terrified of who the county board might get to replace him. There are not many managers out there with top level experience that would be available to us. Donal O Grady and Nicky English are top quality but as LS pointed out we probably couldn't afford them. After that I can't think of anyone I'd feel confident of. Kevin Martin needs more experience, Kevin Ryan has done a good job with Carlow and seemingly Tony Dempsey (current Wexford under 21 & former senior manager) was interested in the job 3 years ago. But I'm afraid though we could be better to stick with the devil ya know. The county board should at least look to add in a new selector to freshen things up a bit.

I hope Tom Cribben is kept on with the footballers.