The Oz Factor

[TheManFromFerbane]

Well Anybody been watching this? Interesting auld show so it is. Any thoughts on it so far?

[Lone Shark]

Haven't been watching, I saw a few trailers for the first show and seeing as I was in severe danger of launching a nearby plate at the TV screen, I decided it was safer for all concerned that I stayed away.

Not to drag the thread off topic with the first post, but I hate this constant obsession with the 10-12 lads that go out to Australia for a year or two to play AFL. Lads like Nixon are being painted by some GAA people almost as if they are old men waiting outside a school with a bag of sweets, while the GPA is delighted to piggyback on this issue since it gives them an excuse to say that we need some form of semi-professionalism back here to fight against this.

My thoughts on this is simple - a dozen lads coming out of minor taking the opportunity to go to Australia is no bad thing. How come we have a huge focus on this, and yet nobody in the country chooses to dwell on the fact that most clubs lose a dozen minors out of every U-16 team by the time they turn 22? Is that because these lads aren't as good so they don't matter? Is that because a lad going off to play for St. Kilda is a deserter who's letting his county and his club down, but a lad who goes off football or hurling to drink pints five nights a week in the local is grand?

The GAA's obsession with becoming more and more about the elite will be the undoing of it yet - and this is just one more example of that happening. The crisis in the GAA is not a handful of young lads all across Ireland that get handed the opportunity of a lifetime thousands of miles away, it's the handful of young lads that are leaked out of every club, every year for a myriad of reasons.


Anyway, that's my rant over - ye can now resume discussing the show....

[TheManFromFerbane]

Ya I'd be thinking much on the same lines as yourself to be honest.

If these lads left to go travelling for a year or work for a year in Austrailia then there wouldn't be this national uproar. The fact that they are going to work in Austrailia for a year as a professional footballer is kinda irrelevant I would have said.

I'm surprised at how bitter and angry Tom McGurk is about the whole thing. I mean he is a presenter for a professional sport that is a far bigger threat to the GAA as far as I'm concerned?

[Lone Shark]

I'm surprised at how bitter and angry Tom McGurk is about the whole thing. I mean he is a presenter for a professional sport that is a far bigger threat to the GAA as far as I'm concerned?

I'm afraid I've no idea what Tom McGurk's involvement is here, but I don't necessarily agree that rugby is a "threat" to GAA. Again, there are a few lads that we lose to it every year, but that downplays the fact that a lot of lads who would otherwise go from 14 to 16 stone weight from October to March instead come back to the GAA in April in good physical condition and primed to play a good hard contact sport.

Of course at the higher levels you have cases like Gearóid O'Grady, but for every one of him, there are twenty lads who are better GAA players for having played a bit of winter rugby with Tullamore, Buccs, West Offaly Lions or whoever.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Haven't been watching, I saw a few trailers for the first show and seeing as I was in severe danger of launching a nearby plate at the TV screen, I decided it was safer for all concerned that I stayed away.

Not to drag the thread off topic with the first post, but I hate this constant obsession with the 10-12 lads that go out to Australia for a year or two to play AFL. Lads like Nixon are being painted by some GAA people almost as if they are old men waiting outside a school with a bag of sweets, while the GPA is delighted to piggyback on this issue since it gives them an excuse to say that we need some form of semi-professionalism back here to fight against this.

My thoughts on this is simple - a dozen lads coming out of minor taking the opportunity to go to Australia is no bad thing. How come we have a huge focus on this, and yet nobody in the country chooses to dwell on the fact that most clubs lose a dozen minors out of every U-16 team by the time they turn 22? Is that because these lads aren't as good so they don't matter? Is that because a lad going off to play for St. Kilda is a deserter who's letting his county and his club down, but a lad who goes off football or hurling to drink pints five nights a week in the local is grand?

The GAA's obsession with becoming more and more about the elite will be the undoing of it yet - and this is just one more example of that happening. The crisis in the GAA is not a handful of young lads all across Ireland that get handed the opportunity of a lifetime thousands of miles away, it's the handful of young lads that are leaked out of every club, every year for a myriad of reasons.


Anyway, that's my rant over - ye can now resume discussing the show....

I agree completely with the above sentiments.

At the end of the day, it's a free choice for the players whether to go to Australia or not. Everybody, including the players involved, is aware of the risks involved in professional sport. To those brave and good enough to try their hand at it, best of luck I say.

This painting of the AFL as some malign, evil influence grates with me. All they are doing is offering a career/job to somebody they believe has the necessary skills and talents. Throughout our lives all of us are offered jobs beyond our beloved homestead, how this is different escapes me. The inclusion of Tom McGuirk in this program is bizarre, but I'd love to see what he would have done if CNN offered him a contract for a well paying job in America when he was a struggling 19 year old journalist.

If the GAA are truly worried about keeping their best payers then perhaps they could start by organising club championships properly at a local level so that a player in January will know what dates his club will be playing in July.

[Thereorthereabouts]

Agree totally with what has been said above.

The GAA need to make their sports more appealing to all players as a first ( setting club fixtures and sticking to them, compensation/ rewards etc) and then based on that the players will stay more loyal to the association.

There has always been threats to the GAA, whether it was soccer after the 1990 World Cup, or rugby in the last few years.The AFL now see an benefits in taking some young lads across the world and give them a wonderful opportunity. It is up to each player then, based on their circumstances whether they want to take a shot at it in Oz or stay with their club and county.

Young people deserve to get as many opportunities, and this is one hell of an opportunity. To take away the chance for someone to excel in their field and to earn a decent income from it would be criminal. Re introducing college fees wouldn't be as bad!!

Of course where there is a asset that is wanted, there will always be business men trying to make their percentage on each sale, but i think most of our young lads here will be well advised before signing anything over...

[red exile]

mc guirk knows what he is talking about and i think he gave very constructive arguments in this debate.he is well informed and brought to light that only a select few sportsmen enjoy the glamour and trappings of wealth .for many its a hard slog , in a career that lasts only a decade or so and if there is nothing to fall back on its life on the dole

[Offalys Future]

mc guirk knows what he is talking about and i think he gave very constructive arguments in this debate.he is well informed and brought to light that only a select few sportsmen enjoy the glamour and trappings of wealth .for many its a hard slog , in a career that lasts only a decade or so and if there is nothing to fall back on its life on the dole

Tadgh Kennelly studied Geography in college in oz paid for by the swans.
He is a full time coaching officer for gaa

[Rynaghs Biffo]

Agree with LS and MFF.

A young fella growing up should be given the best oppurtunity for himself to move forward in life. Not to be held back by grumpy old men on the sidelines.

I've moved over to Melbourne, and to be honest, there's a hell of a lot more going for a fella in their 20's here, than there is in Ireland.

Any anyway, there's a major difference between Gaelic Football and the AFL. I've been to about 10 or 12 AFL games now (got a handy season ticket number!!) and the standard is very diverse. The aussie rules want big muscly men that can catch a high ball. Kicking is simple, just kick it in a straight line and you've mastered it. There's F all skill in the game, compared to Gaelic Football. That's why they have competitions for the greatest mark of the year. When do you see the GAA advertising the greatest fielding from the sky. Very few GAA players make the professional grade here. Look at Setanta, he is one of a few, and he was a hurler. So what's wrong with giving the young lads a chance over here and see what happens, it's their life.

[Bord na Mona man]

I'm afraid I've no idea what Tom McGurk's involvement is here, but I don't necessarily agree that rugby is a "threat" to GAA. Again, there are a few lads that we lose to it every year, but that downplays the fact that a lot of lads who would otherwise go from 14 to 16 stone weight from October to March instead come back to the GAA in April in good physical condition and primed to play a good hard contact sport.

Of course at the higher levels you have cases like Gearóid O'Grady, but for every one of him, there are twenty lads who are better GAA players for having played a bit of winter rugby with Tullamore, Buccs, West Offaly Lions or whoever.

I wouldn't be so confident.
The state of hurling in places like Limerick and Cork cities has been made worse by the increased popularity of rugby.
Even take Ferbane. Correct me if I'm wrong, but rugby was started in the schools at the start of the 90s and maybe it is just a coincidence that the quality of gaelic football player produced has dropped since then.

Players trying all sports is no bad thing, but there eventually comes a point where you can't argue that a lad who is spending time practicing his skills in one sport is going to reap the benefits in the other sport.

[Lone Shark]

I wouldn't be so confident.
The state of hurling in places like Limerick and Cork cities has been made worse by the increased popularity of rugby.
Even take Ferbane. Correct me if I'm wrong, but rugby was started in the schools at the start of the 90s and maybe it is just a coincidence that the quality of gaelic football player produced has dropped since then.

Players trying all sports is no bad thing, but there eventually comes a point where you can't argue that a lad who is spending time practicing his skills in one sport is going to reap the benefits in the other sport.

I'd agree with that if I could put my finger on lads who were lost to the egg chasing permanently and then you could say that players A, B and C would be good footballers now if we still had them (One or two at most who MIGHT have been good senior footballers), or if the lads who have played both but now stick with the football didn't all say that it was of huge benefit to them. I've yet to meet the lad in Ferbane who doesn't say that Rugby helped his football, in terms of confidence in the tackle etc.

I would argue that yes, it probably affects hurling all the more since hurling requires constant work on your touch and feel, but I don't think Ferbane is the poster case for rugby being a threat myself.

[bazza]

Could not disagree with you more LS. Rugby ruins Gaelic Footballers and Hurlers. If a lad is playing in the forwards especially, it really affects them as they are so used to running in straight lines and making tackles. In order to become competitive rugby players have to bulk up to such a level that they become to big for GAA teams and can't even turn and lose all sharpness. Added to that it can take a rugby player (back or forward) months to regain their GAA fitness as rugby requires a completely different type of fitness based more on hits and steady stamina rather than the sharp bursts needed in GAA. Gearoid O'Grady and Stephen Kelly are the only 2 examples of lads I know who combine both to a decent level. But I have often put Gearoid on my "fantasy Offaly 15" on this site and people have dismissed him as average so is he even a good example? Maybe we should look at Eric Miller. The man had strength, fitness and attitude but he just didn't have the speed or skill to make it as a footballer. I was at the match between Ferbane and Edenderry at the weekend and to be honest it was probably the worst match of the weekend in terms of skill. I just don't see how rugby has improved these lads in anyway. I'm waiting for someone to say the Ferbane lads or any lads for that matter get much stronger and braver after a rugby stint but I believe it takes so much from their speed, fitness, skill and awareness that those benefits are cancelled out.

[Lone Shark]

I think what you're referring to is lads who are still playing rugby way into their twenties - I would agree in that instance, however I could name most of the lads in Ferbane that are playing rugby at that age and while some of them are footballers, none of them are jinking forwards that live on subtlety and craft. Rugby in Ferbane is mainly an issue for lads in school, and at that age, I think the training required is no harm, since most of them are doing something similar at county level anyway.

As regards the game at the weekend, I'd say the weather was 90% of the cause of the standard of play. Both those teams are better than they looked out there.

[Bord na Mona man]

The is a certain extent to which lads can learn skills from one code and bring them to another.
In rugby for example Rob Kearney's superior ball catching skills and ability to kick on the run are likely to have been honed playing gaelic football. On the Lions Tour, it was noticeable that the quickness at which he was able to change direction allowed him to get past several would-be South African tackles.
In Offaly club football, most backs seem unable to deal with Georoid O'Grady's barreling runs, where he runs straight lines, breaks tackles and doesn't allow the ball to be knocked out of his grasp.
So I wouldn't completely dismiss the usefulness of skills of one code to the other.

I was talking to a fella who went to a famous fee paying rugby school in Cork. He said that they were always warned that playing gaelic football was detrimental to their rugby skills and should be avoided. So there will be a certain amount of unfounded scare-mongering about the effects of playing other sports from vested interests.

Back on topic.
I think we are all agreed that the real problem is losing large amounts of players at a young age rather than a handful in later years. The occasional older player who makes the crossover at the later age seems to worry people, like the Australian exiles, rather than an entire batches of untapped underage talent.

By untapped, I mean young players never getting enough exposure to gaelic games to learn the skills.
Selling gaelic games to younger players is harder these days.
You are up against very glamorous sports with an international outlet and bigger publicity machines.
I think the GAA had it easy-ish for a long time in a lot of areas of the country and will have to fight harder now to recruit and hold onto players.