Under 21 Team for Wednesday Night

[Lone Shark]

Three other questions, if I may:

1. Do the Shinrone U21s play as 'St Mary's'?

2. Do the Seir Kieran U21s play as 'Clareen' or is this just a familiar way of referring to the club overall?

3. I presume Barry Harding hurled U21 club in 2009 with St Brendan's'?

You may by all means.

1) Yes - it's an amalgamation with the Ballyskenach club.
2) Clareen is the village that the parish is based around, however Seir Kieran is the club. Seir Kieran club fields its own under 21 team so there is no amalgamation or anything there.
(3) Yes. St. Brendan's is Birr, Crinkill and Carrig & Riverstown amalgamated at under 21. Crinkill and Carrig and Riverstown play together at younger age groups as CRC Gaels so hopefully they'll be able to field a stand alone under 21 team in time but for now all three clubs play together as St. Brendans.


As for the other amalgamations that may be listed for panellists:

St. Malachy's - This is Ballinamere, Clara and Brosna Gaels Hurling clubs fielding together for this age group.
Na Fianna - This is pretty much North Offaly, meaning that it's Killeigh, Killurin, Edenderry and Gracefield hurling clubs, though I'm not sure if the latter two clubs are actually part of the amalgamation or if their players just play as permission players, or indeed if they had anyone playing at all. Somebody like True Red might be better able to confirm.

[thecornerback]

Arrigle, i think this is the entire panel for tonight with their correct clubs:

1. James Dempsey - Kinnitty
2. Barry Harding - St. Brendans(Birr)
3. Stephen Wynne - St. Rynagh's
4. Brian Coughlan - Kinnitty
5. Derek Morkan - St. Mary's (Shinrone)
6. Eanna Murphy - Seir Kieran
7. Timmy Gilmore - St. Rynagh's
8. Conor Mahon - Kilcormac/Killoughey
9. Dermot Mooney - Seir Kieran
10. James Mulrooney - Seir Kieran
11. Daniel Currams - Kilcormac/Killoughey
12. Mark Egan - St. Sarans (belmont)
13. James Gorman - Kilcormac Killoughey
14. Brian Leonard - Kilcormac/Killoughey
15. Odhrán Kealey - Kinnitty

16. Eoin Kelly - St Sarans (Lusmagh)
17. Karl Mollen - Shamrocks
18. Colin Egan - St. Sarans (belmont)
19. Killian Leonard - Kilcormac Killoughey
20. Nigel Dunne - Shamrocks
21. Kevin Murray - Seir Kieran
22. Ger Scales - St. Rynagh's
23. Damien Kilmartin - Klcormac/Killoughey
24. Paul Quirke - St. Rynagh's

I think thats all correct, hope its a help to you!!

[Plain of the Herbs]

A,

Where will this report appear? I look forward to reading it.

Some pedantic points - Kilcormac/Killoughey would be spelt with a slash (/) rather than a hyphen (-). I think I'm guilty of noting 'Clareen', but the club name (as LS pointed out) is Seir Kieran, so Clareen is to Seir Kieran as Gowran is to Young Irelands, for example.

Need Kinnittyman for the Odhran Kealey one, but I'm fairly sure 'Kealey' is correct.

Lads, I have to write a report (for a website, not for a paper) on this semi-final and I just wanted to get the clubs and the names right. I don't trust programmes and I doubt there'll be anything on it tomorrow evening mentioning St Saran's. Here is what I have on the first XV named and the possible subs, based on looking at this site, which is a mine of information and very interesting. Fair play to ye.


OFFALY James Dempsey (Kinnitty), Barry Harding (Birr? St Brendan's), Stephen Wynne (St Rynagh’s), Brian Coughlan (Kinnitty), Derek Morkan (Shinrone) captain, Éanna Murphy (Seir Kieran), Timmy Gilmore (St Rynagh’s), Conor Mahon (Kilcormac-Killoughey), Dermot Mooney (Seir Kieran), James Mulrooney (Seir Kieran), Daniel Currams (Kilcormac-Killoughey), Mark Egan (St Saran’s), Ódhrán Kealey (Kinnitty), Brian Leonard (Kilcormac-Killoughey), James Gorman (Kilcormac-Killoughey).

Subs: Eoin Kelly (St Saran’s), Colin Egan (St Saran’s), Dónal Coughlan (Seir Kieran), Paul Quirke (St Rynagh’s), Joseph Connors (Seir Kieran), C/Killian Leonard (Kilcormac-Killoughey), Ger Scales (St Rynagh’s), Aaron Whelahan (Birr).


Mainly, I am just wondering whether there are any more outfits this season such as St Saran's (which I gather is a Belmont/Lusmagh amalgamation at U21 for 2009). Have any other clubs made this merger for 2009, which would affect the proper listing, since the outfit named should be the one for which the player hurled internally at U21 in the given season, to my way of thinking? Who are 'St Mary's', 'Malachy's', 'Ballinamere', 'Na Fianna' -- and how does it affect listed clubs for panel?

Two other things. 1. Is it Cillian or Killian Leonard? 2. What's the story with the family's preference with fadas on 'Ódhrán' (could be different ways, depending on pronounciation) and is the surname properly 'Kealey', 'Keely' or 'Kealy'?

Last thing: I've seen mention, scrolling through very quick, to Kilcormac-Killoughey's U21 side in 2008 being known as 'Kilcormac-Killoughey Gaels'. If I read right, was this name an amalgamation? And does it exist for 2009?

Thanks very much for any help. And best of luck.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Arra relax, Exile. Remember Offaly outnumbered them in the corresponding fixture two years ago on the wettest night of a wet summer?

Hope there is a decent crowd travelling to support the lads tomorrow night but with the game being midweek and a fair distance for alot of people I wouldn't hold my breath. We can't even get support at our home games at weekends so what chance is there of people leaving their coronation street on a Wednesday evening to travel to Kilkenny

[Arrigle]

I think thats all correct, hope its a help to you!!

It's more than helpful. Thanks very very much. One other thing: I presume there are similar amalgamations at Minor?

[Plain of the Herbs]

Amalgamations at minor would be somewhat different in that there are A and B grade championships played on a round robin basis. Under 21 is played on a straight knockout basis, there is no U21 B championship, so most of the smaller clubs amalgamate to leave 12 participants.

Despite being a small club, Seir Kieran go it alone at minor and U21. Last year they won the U21, and reached the minor A semi final (losing to 'Rynagh's in a replay) despite having a panel of only 16 persons!

It's more than helpful. Thanks very very much. One other thing: I presume there are similar amalgamations at Minor?

[Arrigle]

You may by all means.

1) Yes - it's an amalgamation with the Ballyskenach club.
2) Clareen is the village that the parish is based around, however Seir Kieran is the club. Seir Kieran club fields its own under 21 team so there is no amalgamation or anything there.
(3) Yes. St. Brendan's is Birr, Crinkill and Carrig & Riverstown amalgamated at under 21. Crinkill and Carrig and Riverstown play together at younger age groups as CRC Gaels so hopefully they'll be able to field a stand alone under 21 team in time but for now all three clubs play together as St. Brendans.


As for the other amalgamations that may be listed for panellists:

St. Malachy's - This is Ballinamere, Clara and Brosna Gaels Hurling clubs fielding together for this age group.
Na Fianna - This is pretty much North Offaly, meaning that it's Killeigh, Killurin, Edenderry and Gracefield hurling clubs, though I'm not sure if the latter two clubs are actually part of the amalgamation or if their players just play as permission players, or indeed if they had anyone playing at all. Somebody like True Red might be better able to confirm.

Thanks very much too. And: did Shamrocks field as a stand alone U21 side in 2009? Cheers.

[Plain of the Herbs]

They did, I think, though something tells me they were unable to field a team and forfeited the match.

Thanks very much too. And: did Shamrocks field as a stand alone U21 side in 2009? Cheers.

[Arrigle]

A,

Where will this report appear? I look forward to reading it.

Some pedantic points - Kilcormac/Killoughey would be spelt with a slash (/) rather than a hyphen (-). I think I'm guilty of noting 'Clareen', but the club name (as LS pointed out) is Seir Kieran, so Clareen is to Seir Kieran as Gowran is to Young Irelands, for example.

Need Kinnittyman for the Odhran Kealey one, but I'm fairly sure 'Kealey' is correct.

Thanks, POTH. Report on kilkennycats.com for tomorrow morning. Just a standard one. There'll be a preview of the game there in about an hour and a half.

I've become very interested in getting club names right. So appreciate you picking me up on the hyphen-slashmark issue. To my mind, a hyphen is correct when the club name is the joining of various parts of a parish. A Kilkenny example would be 'Graigue-Ballycallan', because the two named places are entities in the parish of Kilmanagh. Where a club is the amalgamation of two separate parishes (and of prior clubs, in all likelihood), I believe a slashmark is correct. So, in Galway: 'Abbey-Duniry/Tynagh.' I put up my thoughts on this issue, which is complex, on rebel gaa a while ago because I was editing a book on KIlkenny hurling and wanted to get opposition clubs correct.

So, I guess my question is: are Kilcormac and Killoughey two parts of the same parish or are they prior clubs that amalgamated? A Laois example of this process, I believe, is 'Rathdowney/Errill' (not 'Rathdowney-Errill'). Thanks for your patience...

[Arrigle]

They did, I think, though something tells me they were unable to field a team and forfeited the match.

Thanks. So the subs from Shamrocks should be left as that, in that those lads did not play at all at U21 in 2009?

Actually, we had a situation like that at Minor in 2005, when Eoin Cody (Windgap) played on the county team but his club did not field at Minor due to lack of numbers. Recently, there's been a 'Galmoy/Windgap' outfit at Minor and U21 for this reason. However, amalgamations are rare in Kilkenny because there is A-D in grades at Minors and A-C in grades at U21.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Not giving you an 'Offaly' answer or anything, but the answer is - both!
Kilcormac and Killoughey are in the same parish, Killoughey being aroung the Blue Ball and Mountbolus area. However, they were seperate clubs for many years though played together as Na Piarsigh at underage during that time. They amalgamated in 1987 as Kilcormac/Killoughey.

So, I guess my question is: are Kilcormac and Killoughey two parts of the same parish or are they prior clubs that amalgamated? A Laois example of this process, I believe, is 'Rathdowney/Errill' (not 'Rathdowney-Errill'). Thanks for your patience...

[Arrigle]

Not giving you an 'Offaly' answer or anything, but the answer is - both!
Kilcormac and Killoughey are in the same parish, Killoughey being aroung the Blue Ball and Mountbolus area. However, they were seperate clubs for many years though played together as Na Piarsigh at underage during that time. They amalgamated in 1987 as Kilcormac/Killoughey.

An Offaly answer is what I want! For me, a hyphen is correct, since otherwise you can't indicate a single parish-centred club. When I've this preview finished, I'll stick up the relevant bit of the stuff I put up on rebel gaa and see what ye think. GAA boards are great for this kind of thing, since I wouldn't know the ground in North Kilkenny, let alone in Offaly...

What is the actual name of the K-K parish, by the way? The parish of 'Carrickshock', for instance, is 'Aghavillar'. Carrickshock is the townland, outside Hugginstown, where the famous battle was fought.

[Plain of the Herbs]

They did, I think, though something tells me they were unable to field a team and forfeited the match.

Thanks. So the subs from Shamrocks should be left as that, in that those lads did not play at all at U21 in 2009?

Actually, we had a situation like that at Minor in 2005, when Eoin Cody (Windgap) played on the county team but his club did not field at Minor due to lack of numbers. Recently, there's been a 'Galmoy/Windgap' outfit at Minor and U21 for this reason. However, amalgamations are rare in Kilkenny because there is A-D in grades at Minors and A-C in grades at U21.

I suppose the answer would be that the Shamrocks lads should be listd as Shamrocks, in that the club entered but were unable to field on the day, as opposed to not entereing a team at all.

Shure Galmoy and Windgap are miles apart, Windgap being near Carrick-on-Suir, and Galmoy being half in Laois, aren't they?

[Arrigle]

Shure Galmoy and Windgap are miles apart, Windgap being near Carrick-on-Suir, and Galmoy being half in Laois, aren't they?

That's spot on. But the decision -- a brave one, in my view -- was that the very similar profile of the two clubs -- rural, with depleted numbers and largely bypassed by the boom -- over-rode geography. As it turned out, the experiment was a success in its own terms, even though nothing hectic was won. I know some of the key personnel in both clubs and they are very intelligent, thoughtful people.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Not giving you an 'Offaly' answer or anything, but the answer is - both!
Kilcormac and Killoughey are in the same parish, Killoughey being aroung the Blue Ball and Mountbolus area. However, they were seperate clubs for many years though played together as Na Piarsigh at underage during that time. They amalgamated in 1987 as Kilcormac/Killoughey.

An Offaly answer is what I want! For me, a hyphen is correct, since otherwise you can't indicate a single parish-centred club. When I've this preview finished, I'll stick up the relevant bit of the stuff I put up on rebel gaa and see what ye think. GAA boards are great for this kind of thing, since I wouldn't know the ground in North Kilkenny, let alone in Offaly...

What is the actual name of the K-K parish, by the way? The parish of 'Carrickshock', for instance, is 'Aghavillar'. Carrickshock is the townland, outside Hugginstown, where the famous battle was fought.

The parish name is Kilcormac. http://www.dioceseofmeath.ie/parishes/index.html

This discussion might also be of assistance:- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=848