Offaly vs Dublin

[kinnittyman]

I counldn't get home in time for the match today but I got the Offaly Express text. Any reports? Footballers starting off 2009 the same way they finished 2008?

[Lone Shark]

Truly, truly awful. We took on a third string Dublin team and we were outclassed, out-thought and outfought. It's really not a pleasant vista right now. The goal was appalling and a few late points when Dublin were mentally halfway down the M4 took the ugly look off the scoreline, but in truth 0-15 to 0-5 would have been a fairer reflection of the game.

As for the players....

Alan Mulhall Didn;t really make any mistakes, though a few of his kickouts were mishit. I can't remember him having a save to make. Quiet game.

Conor Evans Badly needs to play more intercounty football to get up to the pace of the game. He played like a full back, which means that he tended to let his man out in front too often, plus he lived on the edge fouling wise. If the championship was tomorrow I'd say no way, but time, training and practice could stand to him.

Ciarán Mac I'm not convinced by the full back experiment at all. He may be an option for marking Kieran Donaghy, but right now games against Kerry are a long way from where we are. His tendency to tackle like a midfielder leads to a lot of cheap frees, but he might learn yet. I expect he'll be back in midfield or half forward yet - or else centre back, which is where I'd pick him.

Kevin Lynam Wasn't the worst of the backs, but you get the feeling that the game passes him by a bit - he needs to do more to claim a jersey for himself, because right now he just disappears into the background.

Kieran Flannery Showed some promise - I'm not convinced that he's strong enough to fight for breaks, but he really put a lot of effort into this and his pace wasn't used enough - he should get more chances.

Joe Quinn Probably needed this game to get up to the pace again, but he was very poor. Didn't get on the ball often enough, gave it away several times and needs to control the game a bit more. Again, given time I expect he'll offer a lot more.

Matt Mitchell I was quietly impressed by Mitchell - appeared to be using his brain as well as his feet and looked like he belonged in intercounty football. Another guy who could do well for getting a bit more time.

Niall Smith Was doing his job okay until the yellow card, though we possibly need more from him.

Conor Carroll Did a few good things, but I'd be unconvinced yet. I don't know if he's big enough to be a fielding option, while he didn't cover as much ground as you'd like from a second midfielder - or as much as we're used to from McManus anyway. More evidence needed before a definitive verdict one way or another though.

Neville Coughlan He picked up a few nice breaks and tried to take on plenty of responsibility, and he was one of the few who could stand up to Dublin physically. However he hasn't got the pace that he used to and I just don't think he offers enough of an attacking threat, unless he's being picked as the defensive half forward.

Rory Guinan Good size, but not fit enough and gave away a lot of ball with ill judged and badly executed passes. His freetaking is useful and he's another guy who needs games and training. I'm not sure if he'll have the time with his job and location (still stationed in Sligo?), but he might offer something as a biggish full forward yet.

Ger Rafferty Wouldn't have been any more out of his element if he was picked to play in the Ryder Cup team. Ridiculous selection and his inability to match his opposite number for pace down the wing was a huge problem - we have no corner backs, get him back in there now.

Thomas Deehan/James Coughlan I'm putting the two of them together because they're basically the same - two lads who haven't developed in the last two years at all. They're not fast enough to get well out in front, or strong enough to win it in close. They both dropped a few shots way short and never looked dangerous all day. Deehan was a little bit better at offering himself as an outlet but right now neither of them look like potential championship starters.

John Reynolds Good energy, showed well, ran up blind alleys, never looked like scoring. Same old same old. I'd have him on my panel because he'd be a good option when you're trying to hold on to a narrow lead and you need a forward who'll hold up the play, but while I love his attitude, I'd be trying something else.

A fine plethora of subs saw a bit of action, but no-one really stood out, nor got sufficient time to say that they missed out on a real chance. Overall I'd expect a fair few changes next week and a lot of hard work behind the scenes to be prescribed.

[bracknaghboy]

By all accounts it'll be a swift reurn to Div 4. I pity McNamee when he gets back because he'll be on his own in that forward line. The selection nonsence has to stop:
Reynolds, Deehan and Coughlan are not intercounty footballers. Totally out of there depth at this level and I would consider all 3 to be soft.......not really men.
Connor Evans has been a solid club player for 10 years but is woeful in a county jersey. He has flopped in every grade for Offaly.....the lad has no football brain. He gets away with being slack in club games but hes been shown up too many times for Offaly. Hes approaching 30 now and its time to accept hes no good.
Full back is a very difficult postion to play. Anyone who has played no 3 who does not normally play there knows this. Therefoe to take a man like McManus who plays midfield for 13 years and is prone to fouling and petulance and land him in at #3 is insane.
Anybody who watched this years intermediate final will know what Richie Connor is about and the whole thing looks bleak.
By the way that was Dublins 3rd or 4th string today....we were simply missing a few.

[Bord na Mona man]

Connor Evans has been a solid club player for 10 years but is woeful in a county jersey. He has flopped in every grade for Offaly.....the lad has no football brain. He gets away with being slack in club games but hes been shown up too many times for Offaly. Hes approaching 30 now and its time to accept hes no good.

I'm guessing there might be some sort of personal agenda at play here?
As I pointed out to you a few weeks ago, Evans has put in a couple of Man of the Match performances for Offaly in championship.
While he didn't play well today, it is crazy to label him a flop for Offaly.

[Bord na Mona man]

There are some lessons to be learned for Offaly football today.
A Dublin team made up of several players who won't even be on the Dublin panel in the summer gave us a lesson.
Some of the Dublin lads confidently kicked points from 30 yards out, Offaly players were dropping them short and wide from closer in.

Maybe the new tight fitting Dublin jersey is deceptive, but this experimental Dublin team, containing players not long out of minor had physique and conditioning streets ahead of the average Offaly player.
You can take it that a good footballer in Dublin is doing gym work and body building before he even gets near the panel.

A couple of things Richie Connor tried didn't really work.
In the first half the half forward was withdrawn to isolate the full forward line, however deliveries into them were poor, the showing of the forwards wasn't great either. In the second half, build up play improved, but shooting certainly didn't.
McManus at full back was worth a fling, but didn't come off.

It is early season, but the signs are already that a serious wake up is needed.

[the bare biffo]

I wasnt at the game so cant comment on Offaly's performance but whatever it was like I would be making any definitive calls on the basis of it.
One thing to bear in mind. Maybe this was a 3rd string Dublin team but in reality Dublin could field 3 teams that would be competitive in Leinster such is the size of their playing population.
There are lots of guys who wont be on their panel that are just as good as many that will.

[bracknaghboy]

I've no issue Bord na Mona man with any player who plays for Offaly. Evans to my knowledge is based in Dublin and I've nothing only respect for a chap doing that sort of travelling to train and play games. However handing over my hard earned to watch the same guys who continually show they are not up to it is hard to take. Its frustrating to say the least. How many times can lads underperform and keep getting call backs???? Proper intercounty players are solid and dependable virtually all of the time. Lads playing the odd good game here and there, loads of patchy games and then a few disasters are simply not good enough.
Pat Spillane said in the paper today that the Offaly v Westmeath game last year was the worst game of the year. Fair enough I think Roes tatics that day left us with no chance but its an indication how bad we are. I want to see Richie put something credible on the table to suggest that we can improve on last year. Things are bad at the back but our lack of forwards is just as bad.
Look its still very early days and if Offaly won by 10 points today people would be saying it was only a 4th rate Dublin team and so on....... but the early signs are not good.

[Oceans 15]

Connor Evans has been a solid club player for 10 years but is woeful in a county jersey. He has flopped in every grade for Offaly.....the lad has no football brain. He gets away with being slack in club games but hes been shown up too many times for Offaly. Hes approaching 30 now and its time to accept hes no good.

I'm guessing there might be some sort of personal agenda at play here?
As I pointed out to you a few weeks ago, Evans has put in a couple of Man of the Match performances for Offaly in championship.
While he didn't play well today, it is crazy to label him a flop for Offaly.

Have to agree with Bracknagh Boy here. I can only remember him playing one good game for Offaly and that was against laois in Croke Park a few years ago. He has been on the Panel since Tommy Lyons time and has never made it.

[Bord na Mona man]

One thing to bear in mind. Maybe this was a 3rd string Dublin team but in reality Dublin could field 3 teams that would be competitive in Leinster such is the size of their playing population.
There are lots of guys who wont be on their panel that are just as good as many that will.

True, but the worry is that Dublin your average player who isn't undergoing a regular county training regime still manages to be in better condition than the average Offaly panellist.

To use a buzz phrase, there is a lack of joined up thinking in Offaly when it comes to player development.
There is no use in a player who has just got the call up to the Offaly going to the gym now to try and and improve his physique.
He should have be doing this for months and years before now.

Players should be mentored from their late teens and weaknesses (skills and physical) worked on, regardless of whether they have broken into the county panel or not.
Too often it is left down to a team manager to pick a panel at the start of the year and then implement a training programme.
At the best of times Offaly have a revolving door policy at all levels when it comes to management.
Players fall through to the cracks as each new regime tries to grapple with short term targets.

I'd like players identified as having potential to be given 2 or 3 year development plans and mentored by a permanent set of coaches.
Even if most of these players never make a county team, any improvements made would benefit their club careers.

[redser]

It was a dreadful display. Offaly didnt look anyway hungry or as if there is any pride in them. At this time of year it is probably unfair to criticise too much as very little collective training has been done.

Yes management tried out a few things and new players and to be honest nothing looked positive.

Mulhall, didnt have a whole pile to do. Kickouts are not the best.

Evans and Flannery struggled terribly in defence, Quinn hasnt the football or the reading of the game for centre back. Mac tried hard but to be fair anybody would struggle taking on a new role at full back for first time. Mitchell possible more suited to the centre but he did alrite.

Midfield was poor. neither Smith nor Carroll got into the game and more or less were well beaten in their dual at midfield.

Half forward line struggled terribly. Rafferty is not a forward and everybody knew that, crazy playing him there. Guinan has plenty to offer in my opinion and he will improve with games. Neville got threw alot of work and although he was far from brilliant i thought he was possibly Offalys best player. He kicked one very good point and missed another decent chance.

The full forward line were probably starved of decent ball but there is question marks over all three anyway. Deehan doesnt show any pride in playing for his county, he has a terrivble attitude when he plays for the county as opposed to when he plays with clara. I think he just wants to use it as an image thing. Reynolds is not a county footballer full stop although he does get on the ball alot but lacks any real talent. Coughlan has plenty of talent but not a battler. I would use him as a impact sub with 20 mins to go in a game and things open up. He has the ability to get brilliant scores.

On the whole, i think the management should be revising the squad they have in there. Id like to see Evans tried at centre back, Quinn at Full or Corner back and Rafferty put back into full back line.

[Silken Thomas]

That was as a depressing result as it gets in fairness. Even taking into account Dublin's 36 Senior football clubs and vast playing population. The fact that the top 40 Dublin players are training semi-professionally in La Manga while the 'development' squad are on tour, pushing Offaly around, speaks volumes.

My main bugbear is the fact that either the players did not follow any semblance of a fitness regime over December or Richie Connor didn't provide one.

If it's a case that the players are going through the motions and using the window of Offaly football as a personal gain socially, egotistically and financially; shame on them.

If it's a case that fitness programs stretch into little more than the old saying 'mind yourself over the Christmas'
God help the supporter

[black and red exile]

Lets all just calm down a little bit. Before we start jumping on management and players backs let us at least give them until the end of the league before we start to sharpen the knives. It was the first game on Sunday and it was obvious that most of the players were not up to any sort of match fitness whatsoever but that will come as time goes on. It is also obvious that certain positional changes that were tried last Sunday will not be in place come the start of the league and don't forget the only games that you can try out these things are in matches like the O'Byrne cup and challenge games. The fact that Dublin's third team turned us over is not really that big an issue, I was talking to a big dubs supporter during the week and he informed me that these guys were doing trojan gym work since the first week in October as well as doing alot of individual training on their own and that was very much reflected in the final scoreline. We could see during the 70 minutes that they were alot sharper and fitter than us but Richie and the panel have a month before we take on the Rossies and there is one sure thing that it will be an awful lot better than last Sunday in Tullamore.

[Lone Shark]

I've no problem with the tactical switches or anything that didn't work, that's not the issue - if we got cleaned because Mac was destroyed at full back and conceded six or seven scores, or because a young midfield got roasted, I'd say fair enough - they're problem positions and we won't solve them without trying something.

However you point out that

I was talking to a big dubs supporter during the week and he informed me that these guys were doing trojan gym work since the first week in October as well as doing alot of individual training on their own and that was very much reflected in the final scoreline. We could see during the 70 minutes that they were alot sharper and fitter than us ...

Why is that? Why have the Dubs got so much work behind them and we don't? Surely we need it as much as they do? That's the aspect of this that troubles most people - we need to do a lot of work to build up our strength and to build up a power culture among the elite (by that I mean regular senior CLUB starters) in this county. I'm not talking about ensuring that all fifteen players are built like orcs out of Lord of the Rings, but simply an end to this long era when other teams can physically brush us aside.

[redser]

I wouldnt worry so much about gym work. Its being sport specific with this training that is important. That Dublin team to me looked like a bunch of players that had been doing alot of hard running in heavy conditions. That was the main difference. The power comes from the legs and in heavy conditions it can take its toll. That was the only difference and obviously they had done a bit more kicking. U can do all the gym training you want but if you go out onto a pitch for the first time in heavy conditions you'll still struggle.

Id much prefer to see the Offalyt lads actually doing alot of hard running and tough ball drills in training instead of doing 15 sets of bicep curls to pump the guns. in the gym. As far as i can see alot of the lads are more concerned with image than hard graft. The never say die attitude that was once a major attribute with Offaly teams is long gone it appears.

Lets hope Richie starts getting the lads working hard on the pitch because thats where it will matter in May.

[TheManFromFerbane]

Not looking for a row or anything but I just wanted to say a few things about your points.

I wouldnt worry so much about gym work. Its being sport specific with this training that is important.

There is a huge amount of gym work that could and should be done that would greatly improve a GAA player

That Dublin team to me looked like a bunch of players that had been doing alot of hard running in heavy conditions.

I thought there was supposed to be no team training until January...I know that's bull, loads of teams were back training before Christmas, but you can't really blame Offaly for following the rules.

U can do all the gym training you want but if you go out onto a pitch for the first time in heavy conditions you'll still struggle.

You can do all the skill training you want but if you lose the ball every time you get tackled or get brushed aside like a little girl everytime you try to takle then you'll struggle too.

I think the combination of both is the way to go and I thought at this stage everyone knew that was best practice?

As far as the game itself, I have to admit I didn't see it but it really is crazy to be getting too worked up over it. Things were tried that's great, that's what we've been looking for. Just because they don't work straight away doesn't mean it's a bad idea. As long as there are plenty of challenge matches between now and the league. And we play 95% our best team during the league with one or two experiments every game then I'd be delighted with that.