2nd level schools

[Muck Savage]

Lads
Just looking at the newspaper and the 2nd level school results. What Offaly schools are still entering into these competitions? I haven't seen any over the past few weeks. A few years back (maybe 20) Ferbane use to be fairly strong in the Colleges A competition with a lot of these players flowing into the county senior team. These were just not lads from Ferbane but the area around the town also. Since then Rubgy has taken off at the school and now the school has produced some very good players, some underage international players. This is evidence that a good coach in the schools around the county can have a big play in getting lads up to the skill levels needed. You can look back at St Brendans in the 80's and the players they produced, even about three years ago they had a good run as well with a lot of those lads on the U21 team last year. Last year E'derry I think had a good run also. I reckon it's very important to have a good coaching system in the 2nd level schools, here the better players from the clubs around the towns will get to play together and thus come on a lot faster. It's almost like a div underage side. What are the main schools around the county right now and is there much of a coaching structure (what are the coachs like)? The schools I can think of

Birr - St Brendans
Banagher CC
Ferbane CC
Ciaran's in Clara
Tullamore CC
E'derry

Any others? Who are training these teams now? Is it one of the teachers or is there a coach brought in from the county board? It would make a case for the Minor management to push for a competition between these schools and employ a full time coach to help develop players as well as spot tallent (maybe this is already in place but I don't think so). It's at this age that a lot of the talanted athlete's make a choice on what game to play as well as develop skills. Think how many rubgy internationals a lad like Clocker Grennan would have now if Rubgy was in Saran's back then and not just GAA!

I know a lot of the Rhode, Doon, Tubber lads head across the border to dark side.

[True Red]

My old alma mater,St Mary's Secondary in Edenderry are facing into a 1st round of the Leinster Senior A Colleges championship against Colaiste Eoin of Dublin tomorrow(Fri 14th Dec)

Having won the All Ireland "B" schools last year this will be a tough assignment away from home. The current trainer of the team is the same as last year, a Mr Emmett McDonnell, a teacher in the school. He has transformed the fortunes of the school in recent years,with early morning training sessions & weights programmes for players being the norm. He is a Kinnegad man and has trained Westmeath minor teams in the past. He most certainly is a steady hand on the tiller of football in the town's dominant second level school.

[Lone Shark]

St. Saran's, or Gallen as it is now, always overachieved relative to it's size from the late eighties through to the last few years, but it was natural that there would be a tapering off. They won the All Ireland colleges B in 1989, and they had five starters and two subs on the Offaly team that went on to reach the All Ireland minor final that year. The following year they lost to Mels in the Leinster semi, and Mels went on to win the All Ireland. Even in the nineties they were way smaller than any other school in colleges A (three times smaller in terms of total male pupils than the next smallest in their last year).

The amalgamation was a blessing in that it gave them access to the Leinster vocational schools competition which they won a few times, a much easier grade than colleges. The fallow period seems to be kicking in now though.

Having said all that, I wouldn't necessarily blame the rugby either. Obviously it is a new code in the school, but the two balance each other fairly nicely, and it's not like Conor O'Loughlin or Conor Higgins were ever going to be serious gaelic footballers. Even Aidan Wynne wouldn't have stood out, though obviously he was a bit handier with the round ball. You might lose one or two, but most of the lads who have been through Charlie Cooper's training sessions will tell you that it stands to you as a gaelic footballer too. If you think of the best lads to come through the school in the last few years - Aidan Keenaghan, Trevor Phelan, Gerry Grehan, none of them would be particularly big lads but neither would any of them be intimidated by bigger opponents or be afraid to take a tackle. I'd imagine that most of them would thank Charlie Cooper for a lot of that. James Coughlan on the other hand never really got into the rugby, and whatever else he is, he ain't robust.


In terms of Offaly schools in general, Edenderry's great win last year was the first notable success in a long time, but even so I'd be slow to criticise any of the schools in particular, for a few reasons.

(1) We don't have any huge schools, Tullamore VS probably being the biggest. (That's a guess). Compared to the successful schools like Pat's of Navan, St. Declan's of Cabra, Knockbeg, Patrician College and Kieran's or Kilkenny CBS in the hurling, we'll always be at a numerical disadvantage. Barring a particularly strong vintage we will struggle.

(2) Many of the schools that are successful have large catchments, even extending beyond their own county boundaries. Off the top of my head it would only be Banagher or maybe Edenderry in Offaly who would take any outsiders. Now compare that with: Moate - would take in a lot of Ballycumber, Tubber and some Doon. Rochfortbridge - Rhode and Croghan. Portarlington - most of Clonbullogue parish, and of course Gracefield. Borrisokane/Roscrea - most of Shinrone, Ballyskenach and Killavilla. An awful lot of non-Offaly schools have Offaly kids in them.

(3) Pretty sure none of the Offaly schools remaining are boarding schools, which is always an advantage. The club I was with in Galway last year for a while trained in St. Mary's college - the boarders are woken up for an hour of gym before class every day. It mightn't be necessarily the best thing for everyone, but it certainly doesn't hurt their football ability.

As for Offaly schools, I think this would be the full list:

St. Brendan's CS
Birr VS
Borrisokane?? Play in Leinster, so does that make them Offaly??
Coláiste Choilm
Tullamore VS
Clara
Gallen CS
Kilcormac
Banagher (now amalgamated fully I think)
St. Mary's Edenderry
Oatlands?? (Is that the other Edenderry school?)

Any additions welcome of course.

[Muck Savage]

What's the coaching like at the other schools? Do the county board help or have any interest in them? I think down the years that it's fairly clear that the schools with the better coachs (rather than trainers) always seemed to produce better players for the county. We've talked about what needs to be done at underage level and I think that this is an ideal place to start, the better players will be together playing at a higher level, during the Winter months and in some ways are divisional teams so that a full time county board coach only has to call on 6-7 schools, rather than a scatter of mini camps all over the county. Just a thought as coaching during the teenage years is where skills are developed faster and quicker.

[Lone Shark]

It makes sense, except for the fact that it would have to be paid coaches by definition really. It's not like you can expect amateur players to be available to coach school teams of a Wednesday afternoon. Having said that, if the county chose to employ one football and one hurling trainer from the players, there would be worse ways to use the money.

[DD]

Oatlands?? (Is that the other Edenderry school?)

A daily bowl of porridge for every student . It's Oaklands (or the Tech to most people)!

[Over The Black Spot]

As for Offaly schools, I think this would be the full list:

Birr VS - School is gone years LS, amalgamated with a CBS? into St.Brendans from what I know.
Borrisokane?? Play in Leinster, so does that make them Offaly?? Wouldn't think they ever played in Leinster, though they do take a few from Shinrone every year.
Banagher (now amalgamated fully I think) Amalgamated in the last couple of years bit would have a sizeable Galway & Tipperary contingent which tends to stunt the development of some of the local players through their school years slightly.

Roscrea would also be taking a good chunk of players from Shinrone, Ballyskenagh, Killavilla, Coolderry & a few from Kinnitty. There would also be a few going to Cistercian, who do compete as an Offaly school but would have a big rugby presence to turn a young lads head.

All in all, I would say school hurling in the county is on a weak footing compared to rest of the province but with the Dublin schools combining & the size & quality of pick of the Kilkenny schools it's hardly that surprising. Wouldn't know enough about the football situation to comment.


Any additions welcome of course.

[durra1]

Speaking from the outside here as one who spent 6 years in one of those often maligned Leinster Rugby Schools it seems to me that there is nowhere near the level of interest from past pupils and say , local feeder clubs in the performance of the schools teams in my part of Offaly as there is in other areas. Lads are quick to sneer at the carry on of Leinster rugby schools (which admittedly is elitist and seems to get more and more homosexual every year) but there is a serious and genuine passion, tradition and interest amongst parents, past pupils and local club officials on the progress of players and the outcome in cup competitions. From what I see, there is considerable indifference if not apathy to the schools sides in the Tullamore area. That might very well be different down Birr way what with the relatively recent tradition of a schools all Ireland in the 80s and a senior club with all Ireland ambitions. Maybe it’s an unfair comparison but here in Galway there is huge interest in how say Marys or Jarlaths are doing and what players are coming through etc. The lads I hurl with here no all about the good young hurlers coming through the schools system and attend fixtures and help out training the sides when they can. Maybe I’m wide of the mark here.

[Lone Shark]

My apologies - for some reason I was mixed up between Borrisokane and Cistercian - no idea why, but put in front of me I can see now where I got mixed up.

I think with schools there is a considerable degree of success breeding success. Obviously at twelve years of age the child might not always have a huge interest where they go to school beyond going where all their friends are going, but if Dad has anything to do with it sporting pedigree can be an issue. If you were a footballer in South Mayo or North Galway you went to Jarlath's, while Mary's ran a fairly tight ship too. A very good friend of mine in college came through Marys having boarded there, and talked of having to do an hour of gym every day before starting school. It's a lot easier to do that with boarding school pupils than day pupils.

Overall I wouldn't read too much into our lack of school success. Obviously it would be great to have a St. Mel's or or St. Jarlaths in the county, but I think the mitigating circumstances are fair enough, and as long as the likes of Gallen and Mary's continue to field at least one good team between them while plenty of our young lads get good runs in colleges A with Joes or Moate then it's not really a problem.