County hurling championship resumes

[Plain of the Herbs]

I must say I was astounded to discover on this thread that scoring difference is to be used. This seems to have slipped in unnoticed in the spring; another case of delegates in the jacks at the time?

It’s plain wrong for a number of reasons.

Whatever about the league it’s wrong to use it in the championship. If teams finish level they should get the chance to play against each other again for a place in the knock-outs. IF Offaly had beaten Tipperary this year there’d have been some uproar with Tipperary going on to beat Cork, Offaly would have been eliminated on scoring difference.

There shouldn’t be an incentive to beat a weaker team by as much as you can.

It’s also unmanageable. Suppose a demoralised team concedes a walkover when the stronger team needs a sizeable win to advance? What happens then?

[Treasurer]

If there's a walkover involved, a playoff IS allowed.

I'd imagine this was brought in in response to complaints about counties struggling with fixtures due to so many inter-county games - instead of reducing the number of intercounty games, this is a way of reducing club fixtures!

[Bogman]

I like the use of score difference. Otherwise we can have endless playoffs and I seem to remember Tullamore playing Ballyskenach loads of times last year due to this. In Offaly we've had situations where a group of 4 or 5 ends up with 3 teams playing off. Another possibility is that we can have playoffs both at the top and the bottom of groups. The worst one is when we have teams playing off and it might pay a team to lose (Ballycumber a few years ago avoiding Rhode). Massive yawn from my perspective!

If score difference counts then teams have to play hard in every match to the end.

Besides score difference is not a bad indicator of the relative merits of hurling teams. For instance if Kilkenny beat Offaly by 14 and Tipperary beat Offaly by 4 then it's not that far off to say that Kilkenny are 10 points a better team than Tipp.

[Plain of the Herbs]

I didn't get what "diktat from on high" meant until Treasurer's post last night made it clear.

Those on high should keep out of individual counties' domestic affairs.

Another blow for the small clubs.

Aha - I didn't realise that it was a diktat from on high. I thought it was just a thing in Offaly since we've had loads of playoffs in both codes (particularly in relegation) in recent years.

I'd imagine this was brought in in response to complaints about counties struggling with fixtures due to so many inter-county games - instead of reducing the number of intercounty games, this is a way of reducing club fixtures!

[Offalys Future]

Besides score difference is not a bad indicator of the relative merits of hurling teams. For instance if Kilkenny beat Offaly by 14 and Tipperary beat Offaly by 4 then it's not that far off to say that Kilkenny are 10 points a better team than Tipp.

Was that a joke of a statement or what?

Cork bet Offaly by 19 points
Tipperary Bet Cork by a point

Then if your statement is correct Tipp are 18 points a better team than Offaly.

[TheManFromFerbane]

IMHO I think its a good thing. We all knew what the story was at the start of the Championship and it gives the club players something we've been looking for since the introduction of the qualifiers: A clear fixture list all the way to the county final.

[Lone Shark]

IMHO I think its a good thing. We all knew what the story was at the start of the Championship and it gives the club players something we've been looking for since the introduction of the qualifiers: A clear fixture list all the way to the county final.

I'm personally not a fan, but it's interesting to read that players knew it was going to be the case. I wonder if all the clubs in the county were as well briefed/informed however.

[corner back]

I agree. Scoring averages in a league system are good. Up to now teams were meeting in relegation battles and play offs endlessly. Tidies things up nicely and means county finals will be played on better pitches hopefully.

One drawback of the current system is that teams can be effectively knocked out of the hurling in May. I think every team should have one knockout championship match. Surely every player deserves a real championship clash every year.

For example, in Kilkenny, the 12 clubs are split into 2 groups. The league stages of the championship result in the top two in each group progressing to the quarter finals, teams placed 3 & 4 in each group play each other in the first round of the championship, as do teams 5&6. To keep the league matches relevant until the end, only the losers of the two team 5&6 matches play the relegation final.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Senior Hurling championship continues this weekend with six fixtures. As this is the third and final round for the four-team groups we will know six of the last nine qualifiers by Sunday evening. Scoring difference will be used in the event of a tie, which I don’t agree with but we’re stuck with it now. That won’t be a factor in the ’Rynagh’s / Lusmagh group unless either match in that group ends level. A draw between Shamrocks and Belmont would see Belmont eliminated. It would also be a factor in the Birr group if Clareen beat Kinnitty and with Clareen’s narrow defeat to Birr now significant they have most to gain. In that case, the extent of Shinrone’s defeat to Birr will determine whether they or Kinnitty advance.

BELMONT v SHAMROCKS Friday 7.15pm
This is a crucial match with the winner advancing and the loser eliminated. Belmont lost to ’Rynagh’s by two points last time out though they never really looked like winning. They struggle to get good ball up to the pacy Egans , mainly due to poor striking. They also have a lack of pace in defence. Belmont might benefit from placing their team better, maybe with a big full forward for Alan & Mark Egan to feed off, with Paul covering ground behind midfield.
Shamrocks are fit, fast and play a ‘Dublin’ style of hurling laying off handpasses to mobile support players. They also have a score to settle from their playoff defeat two years ago. I expect they will exploit Belmont’s lack of pace and will win this match.
LAST MEETING: Belmont 1-15 Shamrocks 2-10, playoff 2005.

ST. RYNAGH’S v LUSMAGH Saturday 6.30pm
This clash of two neighbours has the potential to be the tie of the round. Both are through to the quarter finals though this won’t take from the match. While ’Rynagh’s were unspectacular against Belmont they always raise their game when facing their neighbours to the south. Expect their best performance of the year on Saturday.
To win, Lusmagh will need to concentrate on the job in hand rather than the prize for winning, that being bragging rights until the next meeting. St. Rynagh’s usually hold the upper hand and this will probably continue on this occasion, though after an intense struggle.
LAST MEETING: St. Rynagh’s 2-15 Lusmagh 1-15 round 2, 2004

BALLYSKENAGH v TULLAMORE Saturday 7pm
Tullamore will be boosted by their recent win over Kilcormac Killoughey and with Drumcullen to come in their last match the will fancy their chances of finishing second in their group.
Ballyskenagh will be pleased with their win over Drumcullen last week and are not without hope here, particularly with Brendan Murphy controlling matters. Still, Tullamore have turned a corner and still need to win here to advance, which should steer them home.
LAST MEETING: Tullamore 0-19 Ballyskenagh 1-10, playoff 2006.

COOLDERRY v KILCORMAC KILLOUGHEY Sunday 7.30pm
Coolderry are in red-hot form and romped to a huge win over a very poor Drumcullen side last week. Carroll and Murray went to town that day, and they still await Cathal Parlon’s return from injury. Whether they can keep this up to mid October will be critical to their title prospects.
The Kilcormac Killoughey side suffered a big setback losing to Tullamore last time out. They were scoring freely before the summer break but championships aren’t won in May. They are also finding out that alcohol bans at club level are counter-productive. How they recover from this setback will define their season.
Coolderry will win here though Kilcormac will still finish in third place in the group, facing a quarter final against Birr for their trouble.
LAST MEETING: Coolderry 0-18 K/K 0-13 round 4, 2006

KINNITTY v SEIR KIERAN Sunday, 7pm
Like ’Rynagh’s and Lusmagh, this also has the potential to be the tie of the round. The fixtures favoured Kinnitty, facing Birr in the spring followed by the two matches which would determine their qualification. They were semi finalists two years ago and have ambitions to get that far again, though they have a number of new names in their lineout this year. They struggled to beat Shinrone last time out which doesn’t bode well. They will find it difficult against their neighbours here
Clareen looked to be in early season trouble when they lost a match to Shinrone they should have won. Then they went and lost narrowly to birr in a match which may rescue their season. Although they lined out that evening with only three survivors from their title wining days the new team retains the Clareen style and steely determination. Joseph Bergin is now best placed at centre back, though they could do with a mobile, scoring forward.
I would expect Clareen to earn a narrow win here thus qualifying in second place with Kinnitty, following anxious phone messages from Birr v Shinrone, filling the third spot.
LAST MEETING: Seir Kieran 2-16 Kinnitty 0-10, round 3, 2006

BIRR v SHINRONE Sunday, 7pm
It’s difficult to see Shinrone making a contest of it here as Birr have way too much class. Birr got a fright against Clareen two weeks ago and won’t be caught a second time.
Shinrone will be tuned in to the Kinnitty/Clareen match in a bid to qualify. It could be a long, anxious evening for them.
LAST MEETING: Birr 3-24 Shinrone 1-12, semi final 2005

[Plain of the Herbs]

Lusmagh v ’Rynagh’s was postponed following an inspection of the Rath pitch by referee Noel Flynn. There were no arguments with this decision following the day’s torrential rain that fell all day coupled with the thunder storm that was getting going at the time.

Well done to the Drumcullen officials who didn’t admit any paying spectators while we awaited the referee’s decision.

Elsewhere, Shamrocks and Belmont drew 1-15 each in Killurin on Friday night. This draw means Shamrocks advance to a play off with Kinnitty or Shinrone. Belmont had the better of the second quarter and led 10 7 at the break with Alan Egan in attack and Ronan Daly in defence prominent.

Shamrocks took over in the third quarter and aided by a 35th minute goal looked set to kick for home when they led 1-10 to 0-10. A Kevin Flynn goal from a beautiful overhead flick brought Belmont back into it, though with Alan Egan well marshalled by Thomas Coughlan they were unable to make sufficient headway. David Kenny and Derek Molloy cancelled each other out at the other end.

It was score for score in during the last ten minutes with the lead changing hands frequently and the Shamrocks defence were disciplined enough not to give away the late free which, if scored, would have knocked them out.

[Offalys Future]

I decied to go and have a look at Tullamore and Ballyskenagh,
game cancelled due to terrible conditions.
No sign of too many Kinnity officials for the refund at the end!!!
I am sure the refixture will be free in.

Hindsight is always great but why werent these games fixed for earlier today or tomorrow?

[Plain of the Herbs]

Kinnitty beat Clareen 1-12 to 2-7 in Banagher on Sunday evening.

The first half was very poor and Kinnitty led 0-6 to 0-4 at half time.

Clareen, led by the Bergins, took the game to their neighbours on the resumption. Two goals, the first from James Mulrooney and a Joseph Bergin penalty put them four ahead on the forty minute mark. The sides traded scores for the next ten minutes and Kinnitty began to drag themselves back into contention. The break came with around five to go when an oppertunist forward (sorry, don’t know have his name to hand) pounced on a loose ball and beat Liam Coughlan to put them level. They topped that up with two more points while Clareen, despite moving Joseph Bergin upfield in a bid to save their year, were unable to break down the Kinnitty defence.

The standard of hurling was quite poor and Kinnitty hurled in patches as Rigney, Grimes, Robinson and Clendennin had some good cameos. For Clareen, the Bergins, Kevin Catrey and James Mulrooney hurled well in the second half but got no real backup from the rest. In addition, Kinnitty could call on the experienced Justin Kinsella and Matthew McRedmond from the bench as they sought to save the day.

Incidentally, the weekends goings-on leaves the likely quarter final pairings as follows:-
Birr v Tullamore; St. Rynagh’s v Kinnitty; Lusmagh v Kilcormac and Coolderry v Shinrone/Shamrocks.

[Biffo Army]

Incidentally, the weekends goings-on leaves the likely quarter final pairings as follows:-
Birr v Tullamore; St. Rynagh’s v Kinnitty; Lusmagh v Kilcormac and Coolderry v Shinrone/Shamrocks.[/quote]

Are you sure these are the potential q/f pairings? Seems pretty strange that Shamrocks can get to that position having not won a single game!!!

[Plain of the Herbs]

Incidentally, the weekends goings-on leaves the likely quarter final pairings as follows:-
Birr v Tullamore; St. Rynagh’s v Kinnitty; Lusmagh v Kilcormac and Coolderry v Shinrone/Shamrocks.

Are you sure these are the potential q/f pairings?

I am.

Seems pretty strange that Shamrocks can get to that position having not won a single game!!!

I agree with you, it is strange. Blame that on the goal difference now in use instead of holding play-offs.

[Biffo Army]

Oh yeah heard about that, harsh enough on Belmont to be fighting relegation as a result of this format change! Anyone know anything about the Coolderry vs KK match? A good win for the KK, after previous round defeat to Tullamore, think they had Leonard and Grogan back again. That result really highlights how even club hurling is in Offaly at the moment, the standard may be low, but it is relatively even! Relegation wise I'd tip Drumcullen for the drop this year....