Superhans75 wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 8:30 pm
I've watched every hurling game in the flesh you can't hide an average team
A few minutes you were saying the manager's the problem, now it's because the team are only average.
Quit while you've only dug yourself into half a hole of bullshit.
Truth be told any top team would have a field day against either side in realistic terms we would go up hope to beat antim/westmeath to stay up yes that's where you want to be hurling but has fennely pointed out getting hammered by kilkenny Galway isn't progress
Some brutal wides, some lads never showed up , when cahil can't put frees over its not your day ,
Not dirty enough carlow weren't afraid to dish out a few rough tackles should have leveled any carlow player with the ball when we went a point up with just over a minute left
Wasted so much time on the sideline before yhe end of normal Time no urgency nobody looking for the short pass cahil wasn't in form for placed balls i don't know where the idea he would have put it over under that pressure
Mitchel was excellent hope he brings that form into next weekend
I m bet and I was only watching!
What a game. As a Carlow man, I m delighted and the win epitomizes the spirit within the small pocket of hurling in the county here. It's a cruel way to loose on your players. I thought ye had some outstanding performances across the team but 1/2 whom I thought weren't at the pace of the game and didn't threaten us. Our group of lads have massive big game experience at county, club and fitzgibbon level and maybe that goes under the radar. I thought we were excellent in the air throughout but that was always a strength. Red card was a letter of the law job. Will it be called if it happened tomorrow in the munster champ? Doubtful. Ye showed some balls to come back and I thought ye would take us in extra time tbh. I suppose the defeat put questions around breaking winning momentum etc the last day in Carlow but they say history is written by the victors so if ye had won it would have looked like a master stroke. I would say our lads used the lack of talk about their chances etc as motivation (internally) as we seemed to be written off. Anyway, that's the joys of sport and looking at the u20 Leinster win Offaly will be hopefully back at the top in the years to come.
Hard luck to Offaly. Huge effort and character shown today. It's annoying to read know alls running the team and management down after such an agonising defeat.
Well done to Carlow. They were much more economical in converting scoring chances and dominated in the air. But they also benefited from a couple of terrible (and significant) refereeing decisions!
I know it's hard to countenance now but another year in the Joe McDonagh might not be all bad. It will give younger players coming through a chance to bed in to senior hurling. And with Laois and either Wexford or Antrim there it will be competitive. With Offaly going in the right direction I'd have no fear of any of these teams.
I'm only giving my opinion after over 20 games since January including FM challenge games
Nothing has changed
The half back line is awful people keep defending
Teams which concede silly scores
If you want this county to improve we need a different mind set .
First off, fair play to these lads who have put in such an effort to train and represent our county. Its some commitment to play intercounty these days - Sunday after Sunday in the league and championship. Serious dedication.
Hard luck to the lads. A one point loss. It could have went either way.
A replay would have been great to see these sides play again.
At least it didn't go to penalties.
The closer it came to this game, the worse I felt about it. I couldn't get away from the fact that in 2022, Offaly played Carlow in a must-win game in Tullamore, and Carlow were full value for their win - and while I cannot but praise the way Offaly have made a habit of winning tight games in 2023, I don't know if I would say that our hurling was vastly improved on last year. I would say there was small, incremental progress, but we also had Pádraig Cantwell and Leon Fox, the two wing backs from that team, unavailable. So overall, there was no reason that I could see why we would have overtaken Carlow, whatever about bridging the gap.
My fear was that Carlow are more settled, more physically mature, more experienced team, and that while we'd take them when it came to legs and freshness, there were too many Carlow players that you knew were capable of scoring well, and not enough Offaly players that you could say the same. At the risk of sounding like captain hindsight, some of that proved to be an issue. Even among the Offaly players that scored well, many of them would look back on the number of chances they had and will say that their conversion rate was not what they would have liked.
There will be a lot of focus on the wide count (I have 25 for Offaly and 9 for Carlow) but I do think that if you don't put that in context, you miss the point. Carlow shot fewer wides, because in general, Carlow had better quality shots. Their ability to win their own ball up front was crucial, both in terms of making life easy for defenders, who didn't have to give the perfect pass, and it meant that they had chances from close range. We shouldn't forget that Carlow could have had three goals in the first ten minutes, and Marty Kavanagh's chance in particular was an excellent one, with Stephen Corcoran making a good save.
Offaly needed to work the ball up the pitch with precision - whish usually went well, but sometimes, like with JM Nolan's point in the second half, went astray - and it also meant there were some amount of shots from distance. There were probably six or seven more at least that dropped short.
On the red card, I'll say it wouldn't be given in Munster, but these things happen in sport, and this is the upshot of the GAA really trying to clamp down on certain areas. In hurling it's the faceguard, and you get situations like this, and utterly accidental contact leads to a red card, and I've no doubt we're heading the same way when it comes to shoulder-to-shoulder hits that go ever so fractionally wrong.
As for the good stuff, there was plenty. The blocking and tackling was incredible (in particular Jack Clancy's and Killian Sampson's). Ben Conneely isn't captain any more, but feck me, he's a leader by example every day he hurls. Not all of our subs made an impact, but feck me, Eimhin Kelly and Paddy Clancy transformed things. Cillian Kiely didn't have a good day for a lot of it and there was a phase through the middle third of the game where he was trying to make up for past errors and just forcing things, but for a man who is often maligned for his lack of a cool head, he came around and worked his way into it.
Ultimately however, we never looked like we had Carlow on lockdown, and that point from Chris Nolan at the end was the kind of score they were getting all day. Forward wins a good ball, takes the defender out of the game, puts himself in an excellent position and converts a simple shot, the type of tapover point we got very few of.
Finally, to Adrian Cleary. To my mind, during the 70 minutes, he took a lot of shots that weren't on, albeit like a lot of others, there mightn't have been a huge amount of options available to him at the time.
That being said, taking on the shot at the end - which was 100% the right shot to take - took a fair bit of bravery. Those shots to win a game are the shots every player dreams of. Those shots to equalise are the stuff of nightmares for many. It was a decent effort, but it drifted a fraction, and on such tiny margins to championships turn. So to him, I say fair play for making the right choice to shoot, and if the same situation crops up again, I'd back him all day to do the right thing again.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
I wonder how much help has having a Kilkenny manager and playing in Kilkenny leagues been to Carlow players for proficiency under the high ball?
If you couldn't win your own ball, Brian Cody didn't want to know about you. Early career TJ Reid being a great example.
Unfortunately the traditional 'Offaly way' didn't put much emphasis on it, and it's another area we're going to need to bridge the gap on.
Firstly, what an outstanding contest and well done to both teams. The standard was very good in fairness and Offaly showed huge cajones to dig out a draw in normal time.
Re our performance / team, we need to start by being realistic as to where we are at with this team. We are a competitive decent Joe Mac team and could mix it with the bottom end of Liam McCarthy at best. There are very few of our players that would have been shining lights at Fitzgibbon cup level in recent times and most have come through an average at best underage process with very little success. We are in the main getting the most of what we have at our disposal. We have some very good players in Conneely, Killian Sampson, and couple more but you couldnt say too many others would get on any of the Munster teams and for us to get back to where we want to be, that is the level of hurler we need to produce.
The referee has got some mentions here. If we are objective, he was bad on both sides in stages. Technically he was correct on the red card. If it was the other way, we would have been asking for same. Beyond that he gave us some very soft frees and a few went our way that were blatant frees to Carlow too if we are honest. We had enough ball to win the match if we were good enough so we shouldnt be blaming referee.
It isnt the end of the world we did not win either and there will be growth opportunities for new young talent coming into Offaly set up next year competing at our own level against likes of Laois and whoever comes down etc. Like to think that when we do get back up in the next year or two hopefully, that we will be battle hardened and ready to do so. Look at Antrim now, who are competitive to large degree. We need to get to that level of strength and consistency unless we just yoyo up and down which is no good for us. In fact, i'd say in terms of strength and physicality, Carlow are more ready than us to make the step up currently. They appeared a physically stronger unit today from what I saw with many Carlow players winning their aerial duals over us. That said, missing Oisin Kelly and focal point he gives us is a loss at the moment.
Well done to Carlow. They are a very decent team at this level and caused us huge problems today. Unlike us, they had forwards that could consistently win their own ball and take on their man and get a score - more than we had even. I think there are a few in Offaly that have an air of hurling snobbery towards Carlow. That needs to stop if we are to get the work done to get back to where we want to be. We need to get our own house in order and there is a lot of fixing in that alone. Carlow have beaten us in many big games in recent years. They have some serious forwards and many would start on the Offaly team. The likes of Martin Kavanagh, the two Nolans and James Doyle have all been doing it at the top end of Fitzgibon Cup in recent years and it should have been no surprise that they are beating us. Give credit where it is due.
On managerial front, they had Tom Mullally over them. He is a well respected kilkenny coach who has done a lot at club level. He oversaw that Naas team that hammered Shinrone only last year and has been involved with lots of clubs winning championships. How the bookies had us as overwhelming favourites is beyond me. It was always much more of a 50/50 game. On our part, Kelly is the manager now, so who is doing the coaching. Does this area need to be improved or added to for us to make the next step. I am aware Brendan Maher is involved in some capacity but not as full time coach. Have to say, I thought it was an unusual move to get rid of Fennelly and then appoint his coach last year, particularly after all the rumblings around Liam Sheedy and Eamon O Shea in intervening time period. Kelly has been with this group for 4 or 5 years now so he should really have a very clear idea on what his best team is at this stage. There appears to be a lot of change within team from week to week, particularly around midfield area and half forwards and full forwards and this uncertainty is a bit confusing. David Nally plays anywhere from midfield to corner forward, while both Paddy Delaney and Joey Keenaghan have played everywhere from midfield to corner back in recent seasons. Im just not convinced he knows his best team and team selections can vary significantly. I understand squad competition is healthy and needed but the players being played across so many positions seems a bit unhelpful and counter productive in terms of generating a particular style of play and helping lads settle in to one or two positions. Eimhin Kelly for me always seems to do well when introduced and I find it hard to understand how he isnt selected more often, particularly over some lads that are often selected. Ben Conneely for me should be centre or full back or possibly a specific marking role on opposition most dangerous forward - maybe that is the case to be fair. To me, he is just wasted playing as a regular corner back if it is the case.
All in all though, won majority of games played this year against teams of our own level so there is still lots of positives and next weekend can top it off. A few years ago we were losing to Kerry and Down etc, lest we forget. We are moving in right direction i'd feel to large degree and staying in Joe McDonagh for another year is far from the end of the world. It is about the level we are at.
Stephen Corcoran: Had a few good saves, including a great diving one early on, ballooned a free wide but short puckouts were on the ball all day, bar one in extra time to Killian Sampson (not quite sure if ball was too long or miscontrolled). Perhaps should have been stronger for the first goal.
Ben Connelly: what a game he hurled, galloping out and cleaning up so much ball. His man did a nice bit of hurling but he is a top forward and was always going to do some damage.
Ciaran Burke: Superb hurler, started well and faded out of the game for a bit as he was dragged all over following his man.
I don’t think we were properly set up. Usually ciaran Burke would man the edge of the square no matter who comes near, today he followed his man all over (similar to Ben did) and it upset our rhythm. We didn’t go man marking against Laois or Kerry and hard to see why it was implemented today. Once these forwards went out too far, it should have been someone else’s duty to man them. Overall, 7/10, another solid performance and pucked a wide but no fault to him for trying after a great marauding run.
Dara Maher: I am sure the young chap is heartbroken this evening. The only thing I can say is that he is unlucky that it wasn’t a Munster Hurling game, as he would have been lauded as brave and living on the edge, as Cathal Barrett was last week: To be quite honest, I’m not even sure he meant to grab the man by the face guard, it was just an instinct reaction to raise the hand and face up to the man as danger presented itself. I had been worried that Carlow may target him and that paid true, as they dragged Ben and ciaran out and lumped 2 balls in on top of him. Hope to see him bounce back in club championship.
David King: his usual, reliable self with the odd mistake and free thrown in. Never too much goes wrong on his wing, although we were dominated in the air.
Jason Sampson: A magician with a hurl, some great touches and passes, would have loved to have seen him winning as captain.
Killian Sampson: some great runs, some great balls but still a lot of the Carlow hurling seemed to come down his side. Does a lot of loose hurling. Would have liked to see him hit the last line ball, but no complaints with Cahill hitting it. Silly free given away in extra time, experience will teach him a lot. Had previously got a heroic block.
Nally: very quiet in the first half, exploded into life in the second half with 3 quick points. Unfortunate to see him go off when putting his body on the line for his county. Would have been crucial down the home stretch, never seems to go off tired or fatigued and always good for another score when the play becomes even more broken.
Sam Bourke: Got on a lot of ball early in the game, with 1 point and 3-4 wides/dropped short. I think it was a bit naive to throw him in today having never hurled at this level before. His man also started very strongly to the second half and Sam couldn’t keep with him. Seemed a bit of a play to justify moving the u20. If the 2 games had been on together, there would have been a lot of talk about whether Mitchell would hurl and he more than likely would’ve hurled some part senior, but Bourke would not have had any part in the senior game. Harsh enough on Keenaghan, Delaney, Kelly and Clancy to start him ahead of them and it did the young chap no favours either. Hopefully he bounces back next Sunday.
Kiely: anonymous at times but also showed some great bursts of power that only he can. Easy to look at stats or video and say X number of puckouts went on top of him and weren’t won, but a lot of them were at times when we had no other option other than to hit the big man and nobody got around to help, which never happened Carlow at the other end.
Jack Clancy: had a great game, not the most gifted hurler but an absolute workhorse. Pucked a few early wides when we really would have rathered any other forward with the ball. Hurled great at half back in second half, was sorely missed when departing.
Adrian Cleary: heart breaks for the young man. Offaly’s most honest hurler with some lovely touches. Ben and Ciaran were given some early short puckouts that were ballooned away, the same can’t be said about Adrian’s - gives a lovely ball to the forwards advantage. Going on today’s performance, there honestly wasn’t too many others you’d rather taking that last shot than Adrian and I can only praise him for trying. Offaly’s season was transformed when he started going back as a sweeper and I can only but praise him.
Mitchell: got a great early goal. Got blocked down a couple of times when shooting from speculative angles. Always shows well and has that bit of silk. Would have loved to see him take on a few more balls. Hopefully there’s a Cork full back having a hard time sleeping tonight ahead of next Sunday.
Cahill: just not his usual self. Got mauled on the first ball that led to the goal and that didn’t help with the few knocks he had coming into the day. 3 frees missed in the first half that you never expect from him. Don’t know if it was to do with nerves or Croke Park or injuries or a swirling wind in the open end or what it was. Also pucked some bad wides. Was clearly out on his feet in extra time, harsh on him to be left there unable to move. Without him we wouldn’t have reached this stage and let it galvanise him.
Brian Duignan: very quiet while on the pitch. Could perhaps have been taken off earlier. And yet we were crying out for his presence in extra time when he looked to be coming on but was sent back to the bench. Produced a barnstorming 10 minutes against Kerry that changed the game and always has the potential to do similar.
Eimhin Kelly: Great showing when introduced, 2 points and 2-3 frees won that were converted. Always seems to have that cuteness to get by a man and draw a foul. Hard done by not to start, but management cognisant of his recent injury.
Paddy Clancy: Also gave a fantastic showing when brought in. 2 great scores. Never seems to settle for taking the ball out in the corner and shooting, always tries to use his pace to create a better angle. Could perhaps even went further with 1 or 2 more balls, especially on the occasion he was hooked on the far side when shooting.
Shane Dooley: brought into act as a focal point, despite no ball reaching Kiely when occupying a similar role. End justified the means when normal time ended, however never got into extra time. Had a ball in his hand inside the Carlow 21 under the Hill in the first period, oh what could have been. An almighty servant to Offaly GAA and would have loved to see him on the winning side. Brian Duignan should really have come back in for him.
Joey Keenaghan: brought on at end of normal time, taken back off, brought back on and taken off again. Pucked away a ball on far side and gave away a shocking off the ball free when we were looking to move 2 up. Would have liked to see him introduced in midfield where he could display his power running more, as he is always liable to a poor foul.
Paddy Delaney: showed well in extra time, always seems Mr Reliable around the middle third, nothing too flashy.
John Murphy: very little involvement, couldn’t make it stick in his brief cameo.
I’m sorry, there is definitely one million things I missed and I haven’t watched the game back yet. To be honest, I don’t think I have the stomach to ever watch it back.
To Carlow, fully deserved, took your chances, played hard and beat the odds, something us Offaly folk loved to do down through the years.
To the ref, it seemed almost like an audition to ref a high-profile game. I won’t give some blatant frees in the spirit of ‘letting the game flow’ while an innocuous face guard grab warrants a straight red. Yet a clear hurl trip in front of the ref on David King didn’t even result in a free. Perhaps im being too harsh on Thomas Walsh. He’s always been a ref I liked and certainly helps add to the spectacle, but the spectacle is no use when you’re on the losing side.
The game seemed to be played at a million miles an hour, every puckout seemed to be a quick one. It was hard to track in person, I can’t imagine how it was to view on telly with replays to be accommodated also.
I felt our half forward line was cleaned out for the early stages and it wasn’t until we began to work the ball out through the backs and give into good ball to the full forward line that we began to have success.
Although, there were also numerous occasions of balls being pucked aimlessly away and others instances where you would find yourself lauding the back for delivering a great ball, only to look up and realise none of our forwards have moved that way.
As with any sport, you never know what your shelf life is and when you will reach another final. Please God this time next year the headlines will be about the Faithful’s bounce back.
I hope I haven’t came across as too harsh on any of the players, I truly admire each and every one of them for the commitment that they show to the Offaly jersey.
You see it with the Uber-successful teams that after a few wins, the excitement factor seems to dissipate (a la Dublin footballers). Thankfully, as an Offaly supporter I don’t think we will ever not celebrate a win, as we have had a fair few bad days.
Hopefully the 20s can give the Rebels a game of it and the Seniors can put up some level of fight against Cork/Limerick in 3 weeks time.
Uibh Fhaili abu
Bord na Mona man wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 12:03 am
I wonder how much help has having a Kilkenny manager and playing in Kilkenny leagues been to Carlow players for proficiency under the high ball?
If you couldn't win your own ball, Brian Cody didn't want to know about you. Early career TJ Reid being a great example.
Unfortunately the traditional 'Offaly way' didn't put much emphasis on it, and it's another area we're going to need to bridge the gap on.
From our side -
Tom and his team (Christy Kealy is his right hand man and v much a key man in things, is from Carlow) would have seen where we have an edge on teams. They are shrewd men who drive high standards. The style suits the player and I often wonder do teams all thing they have to play to a template now. There would be no particular emphasis on aerial ball winners but you play to suit at times. John Michael Nolan has been pulling them from the clouds at this level for over 10 years, mouse, Chris etc at senior and fitzgibbon for ages also. Credit the clubs here also - it's not down to 3 years under a particular manager - we were in liam McCarthy 4 years ago and ran galway to 6 pts in salthill and drew with them in the league, so we aren't an overnight team! 11 lads who featured v Galway that day, featured yesterday (mouse got 5 from play and Chris 1 2 - so no slouches!) The kk league thing is a help for games alright but the reality is over 90% of these games get played by our clubs without their current county players - and our panel, especially our first 15 have been there an age. We have 6 senior clubs, 2 of which have featured in Leinster finals in the last 10 years and it's a well fought and tough championship - my own club only lost out by 1 pt to st mullins in the semi last year. In fact mlr who were beaten by portumna in the all Ireland finals were beaten down here in the next 3 finals by st Mullins.
I do feel we came in nicely under the radar and maybe there was more talk about ye given the u20 success and the league promotion but it was no major secret down here that we were primed for this nicely. I do feel people didn't give our recent history enough credit but that's the joys of it.
Best of luck in the 20s - I ll be down to support al going well and hopefully they ll regroup to give the preliminary q final a rattle.
Look no disrespect but you didn't come under any radar offaly were far better in previous games of the joe mcdonagh and knew exactly what to expect from carlow, what carlow forwards were doing one end offaly dropped balls hit misplaced passes the other that's the difference not because:
Fitzgibon
Club championship
Manager
At the end of the there was 1 point in the difference and offaly had a chance to send it to penalties and a chance to win it full time the under 20 had no bearing on this game only the players offaly needed for the senior final
The only influence it had apart from it is that it would have been great to try win the senior and carry tge good feelings into the under 20
Carlow were sharper, the sending off had a huge impact
Any other stats about club and college hurling and previous results don't change or add to it
Offaly beat dublin in the league a few year ago and ended up getting relagated by the end of it
