Kids dropped from development squad

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Pat Mustard
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Kids dropped from development squad

Post by Pat Mustard »

Interested to hear peoples thoughts I would have always thought kids playing more sport can only benefit Gaa players https://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/gaa/7 ... match.html

frankthetank
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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by frankthetank »

Rubbish stuff from Declan Kelly. From reading that article the boys missed one training session. One! Presumably they informed Kelly of their expected absence in advance.

A once in a lifetime opportunity to play against the biggest soccer team in the country and now dropped off a county panel.

Talk about a dogmatic approach. They should have been wished best of luck in the match rather than dropped. They’re literally children.

Edit - On a second reading it seems their parents went down all the correct channels notifying management of their decision.

I've already had texts from guys in Limerick and Clare who came across this and they weren't too complimentary towards the decision. And these are staunch GAA people.

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Pat Mustard
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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by Pat Mustard »

frankthetank wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:37 am Rubbish stuff from Declan Kelly. From reading that article the boys missed one training session. One! Presumably they informed Kelly of their expected absence in advance.

A once in a lifetime opportunity to play against the biggest soccer team in the country and now dropped off a county panel.

Talk about a dogmatic approach. They should have been wished best of luck in the match rather than dropped. They’re literally children.

Edit - On a second reading it seems their parents went down all the correct channels notifying management of their decision.

I've already had texts from guys in Limerick and Clare who came across this and they weren't too complimentary towards the decision. And these are staunch GAA people.
No wonder we are where we are with this sort of shit going on I recall Offaly gaa running a lecture a couple of years ago where a lady, Professor Aine McNamara said it's important to let children play as much sport as possible. Obviously some people were talking when they should have been listening but I'm also hearing where dual players are being put under pressure to drop either hurling or football

lovelyhurling101
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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by lovelyhurling101 »

Below are some extracts from an article on current hurler of the year, Cian Lynch.

Its not difficult to give kids that level of respect and freedom. It certainly doesn't seem to have done him or Limerick hurling any harm.

"Another sporting path beckoned in his teens, two years spent being ferried on the road between Limerick and Dublin as he lined out for St Kevin’s Boys"

He was big into soccer,” recalls Niall Crowe, a teacher in Ardscoil Rís and a hurling coach of Lynch at schools level.

“I think it was the week before the White Cup final (Munster U15 hurling) in 2011, we were playing the Limerick U15s in a hurling challenge. He rather sheepishly came to me and said, ‘Listen I’ve a big soccer match up in Dublin.’

“Sure I said if he was committed to that, no problem. I think especially with kids at that age, it’s very important that they get a flavour for all sports.

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by brownie »

make no mistake this was 100% to do with those lads playing soccer. Declan Kelly outlined at the start of his tenure as director of the development squads that no other code including hurling was an excuse to miss football training or matches at any age group. he even went as far as outlining that any player that missed the 7 a side trial games in Feb were to be omitted from selection . there were 2 trial 7 a sides 2 weeks apart and any player that did not attend either was to be omitted for selection. that rule was broken or ignored depending on the missing player/players ability!
and what made Declan Kelly the perfect choice for director of football in offaly ? he has his hands in so many pies between offaly u20s ,u14 offaly development squad manager , director of offaly development squad , manager of st lomans and multiple underage teams in st vincents. does he live by the same rules he set these young lads, does he attend all the above teams sessions that he is involved with. i can say for a fact he doesnt .
shame on Declan Kelly and shame Offaly country board for backing him ! 2 step forward in 2021 and 3 steps back in 2022.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by Bord na Mona man »

It's seems pretty extreme, but it's important that those charge of the squad clarify what the code violation was and why the boys were dropped.
A lot of people have already jumped to conclusions.

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bracknaghboy
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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by bracknaghboy »

Lads have been on here for years bemoaning the fact we didn't have proper dedicated development squads and how everything was half arsed within the county.
Now we have them in place and the same lads want them to be run in a half arsed manner!
What would be acceptable? Allow players miss a maximum of 3 sessions due to soccer, golf, fishing or skateboarding commitments?
This wouldn't happen in Kerry or Kilkenny....young fella's would be over the moon about getting a shot at county panel there and there would be no other distractions. Could that be the difference between winners and losers in the long run, who knows?

We should acknowledge they are only children at the end of the day so you could ask was there a better way to go about this?
One could argue it's very unfortunate as well some parents went running to the media as well to blow all this up,which is rarely ever helpful. Could you say if they really really really wanted to represent Offaly they wouldn't be bothered about a soccer match? I guess you could.

You could argue equally that some leeway should be allowed to allow a couple of sessions be skipped.....what if one of them had Covid etc. then surely they'd have to miss a session or 2. Can we afford to be kicking the best players in the county to touch? No I'd say to that.
Good observation above about Declan Kelly making all sessions himself......but at the end of the day there has to standards set that players need to adhere to. Also I don't think we have all the full facts on this one.
Sorry for sort of contradictory post but I'm trying to stay somewhat open minded on this one.

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by SearingDrive »

bracknaghboy wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:12 pm Lads have been on here for years bemoaning the fact we didn't have proper dedicated development squads and how everything was half arsed within the county.
Now we have them in place and the same lads want them to be run in a half arsed manner!
What would be acceptable? Allow players miss a maximum of 3 sessions due to soccer, golf, fishing or skateboarding commitments?
This wouldn't happen in Kerry or Kilkenny....young fella's would be over the moon about getting a shot at county panel there and there would be no other distractions. Could that be the difference between winners and losers in the long run, who knows?

We should acknowledge they are only children at the end of the day so you could ask was there a better way to go about this?
One could argue it's very unfortunate as well some parents went running to the media as well to blow all this up,which is rarely ever helpful. Could you say if they really really really wanted to represent Offaly they wouldn't be bothered about a soccer match? I guess you could.

You could argue equally that some leeway should be allowed to allow a couple of sessions be skipped.....what if one of them had Covid etc. then surely they'd have to miss a session or 2. Can we afford to be kicking the best players in the county to touch? No I'd say to that.
Good observation above about Declan Kelly making all sessions himself......but at the end of the day there has to standards set that players need to adhere to. Also I don't think we have all the full facts on this one.
Sorry for sort of contradictory post but I'm trying to stay somewhat open minded on this one.
It makes sense to me. I would like to hear Declan Kelly’s side of the story. Running to the media isn’t always helpful.

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by frankthetank »

I think a massively overlooked point here is that those children would have been part of the Edenderry Town U14 soccer panel long before they were called up to an Offaly developmental panel.

This was a terrible decision and a PR disaster by all involved.

You’d swear they went on the beer. They went to a play a sport, at an elite level in their age group, that would actually compliment their Gaelic Football.

And I repeat, it was one session, one.

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by ah lethimoutwithit »

2 things here:

1) We have all said on here that standards and coaching need to improve.
As Bracknaghboy has said here that is what has been done, a transparent model has been put in place and PARENTS knew what they are signing up to.
BUT....too many people think that rules in the GAA are made to be bent if not downright broken.
If you are playing soccer and rugby on a Saturday, how are you going to commit to development squads?

2) Soccer players....go and commit to your soccer, give it a full on go until you are 15/16, you'll know then whether its for you or not. In the meantime you can dabble with GAA with your club, your school...no problem....GAA is stilll there for you. There are trials every year under the new system, if your situation with soccer/rugby/skittles/cricket/tennis/or dancing changes you can give it a lash and go for the trials! And you know what, IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH YOU WILL MAKE OY U16s or Minors, and you'll have given your priority sport at 13/14/15 a good go.

The shite that is being reigned down here on OY Co Board and director of football is coming from people who have no idea of what effort is being put in in Offaly GAA. And if you ask any of the participants mentioned that Declan Kelly is involved in do they need him at all the sessions, they will say no....and why?? BECAUSE HE IS A FUCKING CORDINATOR AND MANAGER who has empowered people to do their jobs as part of team to progress the GAA. I don't know a more dedicated man to GAA, but a man who brings people with him and gives them responsibility to do there jobs, enables the success to follow with his teams. The man deserves gratitude and has it from the real supporters in the county.

I've seen keyboard warriors on over the last few days that have been spewing bile...for what? Few lads being parked from a squad in favour of those more committed to it? Come on...There's a war going on and inflation. AND MANY OF THESE HAVE DONE NOTHING, AND I MEAN NOTHING to help the GAA but would drive them to Dublin 3 times a week for soccer, and when the bubble bursts, the GAA are there to carry the can.

Development squads are open ended year on year, so I say to the soccer lads in this instance, keep practising and you might make it at one or the other, and you can come back in next year. And you can enjoy playing with your club.
But OY Co Board/Coaching and games are right, pick your squads by your rules and go along with that, and next year pick it again.

PS think Hoops won 7-1.
So calm down lads, isn't the end of the world, there will be turnover in these squads over the years.

But GAA clubs need to stand up and be counted and support their coaching and games structure and reign these people in. I know Rhode have appointed a GPO part time at a significant investment to upgrade their coaching standards and they will have access to the best S&C advice and football coaching and their players have the opportunity to aspire to play senior at the highest level if they are good enough, and go on to play senior for Offaly. Its a far better prospect to have than a poor gossun born in Clonmore Harps has down the line. So play your soccer and give it a lash , and the GAA in all its manifestations will have room for you when you are ready.

To the "Mammy's" and "Daddy's" on social media, don't worry your heads, you know why, you could have far worse things to be dealing with!

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by joe bloggs »

Delighted this has blown up in Kelly's face.

He's a guy on a power trip. Wins an All Ireland and thinks he can dictate what he likes. Never mind letting lads play soccer he won't let them play hurling.

Kids need to be allowed experience as many disciplines as possible and afterall they are supposed to play for enjoyment. Its not as of yhey are progressing to a future career.
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by jimbob17 »

ah lethimoutwithit wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:12 pm 2 things here:

1) We have all said on here that standards and coaching need to improve.
As Bracknaghboy has said here that is what has been done, a transparent model has been put in place and PARENTS knew what they are signing up to.
BUT....too many people think that rules in the GAA are made to be bent if not downright broken.
If you are playing soccer and rugby on a Saturday, how are you going to commit to development squads?

2) Soccer players....go and commit to your soccer, give it a full on go until you are 15/16, you'll know then whether its for you or not. In the meantime you can dabble with GAA with your club, your school...no problem....GAA is stilll there for you. There are trials every year under the new system, if your situation with soccer/rugby/skittles/cricket/tennis/or dancing changes you can give it a lash and go for the trials! And you know what, IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH YOU WILL MAKE OY U16s or Minors, and you'll have given your priority sport at 13/14/15 a good go.

The shite that is being reigned down here on OY Co Board and director of football is coming from people who have no idea of what effort is being put in in Offaly GAA. And if you ask any of the participants mentioned that Declan Kelly is involved in do they need him at all the sessions, they will say no....and why?? BECAUSE HE IS A FUCKING CORDINATOR AND MANAGER who has empowered people to do their jobs as part of team to progress the GAA. I don't know a more dedicated man to GAA, but a man who brings people with him and gives them responsibility to do there jobs, enables the success to follow with his teams. The man deserves gratitude and has it from the real supporters in the county.

I've seen keyboard warriors on over the last few days that have been spewing bile...for what? Few lads being parked from a squad in favour of those more committed to it? Come on...There's a war going on and inflation. AND MANY OF THESE HAVE DONE NOTHING, AND I MEAN NOTHING to help the GAA but would drive them to Dublin 3 times a week for soccer, and when the bubble bursts, the GAA are there to carry the can.

Development squads are open ended year on year, so I say to the soccer lads in this instance, keep practising and you might make it at one or the other, and you can come back in next year. And you can enjoy playing with your club.
But OY Co Board/Coaching and games are right, pick your squads by your rules and go along with that, and next year pick it again.

PS think Hoops won 7-1.
So calm down lads, isn't the end of the world, there will be turnover in these squads over the years.

But GAA clubs need to stand up and be counted and support their coaching and games structure and reign these people in. I know Rhode have appointed a GPO part time at a significant investment to upgrade their coaching standards and they will have access to the best S&C advice and football coaching and their players have the opportunity to aspire to play senior at the highest level if they are good enough, and go on to play senior for Offaly. Its a far better prospect to have than a poor gossun born in Clonmore Harps has down the line. So play your soccer and give it a lash , and the GAA in all its manifestations will have room for you when you are ready.

To the "Mammy's" and "Daddy's" on social media, don't worry your heads, you know why, you could have far worse things to be dealing with!
Have been mulling over this for last 24 hrs. Had some brief conversations with a couple of people and the consensus to appeared to be much along similar lines - ie that it was done in best interests of Offaly but could have been handled differently.

I'd tend to agree with this.

Lets not escape the fact that Offaly GAA has been at a low ebb for a long time. It has not held much status in the minds of many young sports people for a long time and as a result, the 'respect' earned by playing for your county was not as high as it may have been held in the 'Glory Years'. As a direct result of this, Offaly GAA has been competing with soccer and rugby in this time where it once had dominance, and in some respects, has been struggling and losing talent to these outlets. These other sports would have offered potential paths to professional sport through Connaught / Leinster Rugby and cross channel soccer or maybe even LOI soccer or international underage soccer, while often, Offaly GAA took a back seat. This is the context in which this issue has occurred. This is the context that Kelly would have observed over the last few years with U20s. He had to call lads on certain things with regards to other commitments and did just that. Offaly won an U20 All Ireland. He was working with young adults. He did phenomenal work with this team and we celebrated that All-Ireland like rarely before. That part worked and worked very well.

On the back of this huge success, he was given 'Director of Coaching' role, apparently in a voluntary capacity. He was put into a situation for which (surmising here) his qualifications may be questionable, and I am not in any way knocking the man. He did what he thought was in the best interests of Offaly from his knowledge and experience. But here is the thing. These are kids that are 13 years of age - just out of primary school and a long way off high level sport, unlike his U20 team. This is a totally different market from the Co U20s, or any where close to it. As I would see it, his role as a Director of Coaching is to raise standards of coaching, to keep the net spread wide, and develop a broad base of talent from which we can then select for Leinster championship teams, firstly at minor, U20 and ultimately senior players. Acting in any way that undermines that process is unhelpful in my opinion.

The fact is that at U14, you are going to have many lads that are multi sport athletes, and the best will be the best across many sports, let it be rugby, gaa, soccer, basketball or otherwise. It has always been the case and will continue to be. Everyone wants the best lads but they will ultimately choose the one sport THEY prefer. The advantage that soccer and rugby has currently at it's end point, is you have a professional game if you are good enough. The percentage chance of 'making it' is tiny but that carries weight in minds of young lads.

Another factor in this instance is that parents are involved and you are dealing with kids. Unlike working with adults, parents will demand that their kids are treated well and fairly and rightly so. U14 development squad level is not, nor should ever be the dog eat dog world of elite level sport that U20 championship is attempting to approach. It appears to me from what I have read, that parents followed all procedures here and let management know they were not available. They were found to be playing a different sport - one that actually complements GAA - with their friends in a national quarter final against Shamrock Rovers - a HUGE occasion in their sporting lives to be fair. They missed one training session for this I believe. It appears this was the reason they were dropped. I believe that this is wrong and extremely short sighted. You will not be able to bully young lads in to playing GAA over any sport when they are adults so why do it when they are kids. Now I am not saying there was any bullying involved at all for that matter, but it appears to be a dictatorial approach to a scenario where there was a relatively simple and easily attainable solution. It just causes needless resentment long term and leaves a sour taste for those affected, with no winners whatsoever. I just wonder if it was for example, a school basketball All Ireland quarter final, what might have happened? Do people concerned or those within the GAA have some form of inferiority complex to rugby and soccer because they are professional sports? Or if the shoe was on the other foot, if they missed a soccer training for an All Ireland quarter final match with the Offaly U14's, would the soccer management have done similar? I'd suggest not.

These young lads could be some of our best future players and needlessly calling this so soon just sets the wrong tone. You should want lads to represent Offaly because they want to - and I believe these young lads really do. Another huge point here is the actual benefit of being involved in multi sports for youth sport development. There is any amount of research regarding the limitations of early specialisation as alluded to in earlier post. Cian Lynch played soccer in Dublin well into his mid /late teens - an outstanding sports man now. Did soccer have a large part in his development? Absolutely. Paddy Dunican played soccer for Ireland at underage up to maybe 18 or so. Was that beneficial? Absolutely. Rugby played a large part in Johnny Maloney's development into adulthood and there are countless examples of Offaly senior players that played rugby and soccer at underage. Maybe this filled a bigger part of the jigsaw in their development that people give credit for. Maybe the ones that only played GAA did not benefit from skills that may have been developed in other sports and never played county senior as a result. The research certainly supports this. Interesting also to hear Kieran Donaghy recently talk about young Kerry players needing to play more basketball at underage as a winter sport to develop ball handling and spatial awareness. Beyond these, I can think of so many outstanding sports-men and women where other codes had huge impacts on their development and ultimate success in sport. All of these played 'other sports' a long way above U14 level - Kevin Moran, Niall Quinn, Anthony Tohill, Graham Geraghty, David Beggy, Jason Sherlock, Joe Canning, Con O Callaghan, David Meyler, John Egan, Brendan Cummins, DJ Carey, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe, Mick Galwey, let alone GAA dual coders and Aussie Rules converts - the list is absolutely endless.

So Declan Kelly makes that call based on what he knew and here is probably the nub of the whole thing. Declan Kelly is an excellent manager of adults and got us huge success last year. I believe he is probably entitled to a shot at the senior role next or at least be very involved. This decision, I believe, was made in his perceived best interests of Offaly GAA based on his experience / knowledge and was well intentioned, there is no doubt about that. But it was a very misguided decision and that is probably the main issue. There is a MAJOR difference between how you should approach U14 development squads versus inter-county U20. Kelly (for all his success at adult level) to be fair has probably a fairly limited enough knowledge of best practice in youth development. Giving him that Director of Coaching role was probably not best suited to his skill-set, where he is used to working with young adults and adults. There are lots of other people working for Offaly GAA now in Games Manager / GDA / GPO role with academic background, experience and knowledge of this whole area that may have been much better placed to assume that role. It is also likely there are others in the county that would have been a lot more suited too, have more knowledge and experience in that type of role. The role here is to bring parents with you, bring kids with you, create the right environment for good coaches to coach and do it so well (organisation, coaching etc) that both parents and players will choose to go to football over soccer because they enjoy it, because of the standards of organisation and coaching and because of how they are treated. It is important that when they choose the GAA, it is because they are ready and because they want to play for Offaly. Ultimatums only engenders fear and resentment and are unhelpful. And down the line, at later stages of development, U16 / U18 for example, there is still nothing wrong with letting young lads off to play a national cup q-final with their school friends at the expense of a county training session.

All that said, there is an element of social media and journalism here that I don't like - people looking to stir the pot and make a huge thing out of a relatively small thing. I don't know who went to who - journalist to parent or vice versa? Either way, I believe the parent / parents were used on a bad week for news! There was a much easier and more amicable way to solve this than the manner in which it has become a national news story, that will leave a good deal of hurt on both sides. Bad news sells well and some journalistic vultures love this type of sh*t, knocking a good man when he is down.

A well-intentioned but misguided decision that should never have reached the level of exposure that it has.
Last edited by jimbob17 on Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jimbob

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by Doon Exile »

Fair and honest post Jimbo.

My tuppence is slight shorter and as said, I’d agree in principle with the post above, albeit I do have sympathy for DK here. Last year he gave us the lift of a lifetime- one we never thought we’d see again so I’d ask not to jump on his back too much now.

We’ve all made decisions, let it be adult or underage or even in work that have not panned out as intended but equally they were made for the greater good at that time. I’m sure DK set out his agenda at the start of the year with the same good intentions and felt he maybe couldn’t be seen to be conceding or dare I say, undermined here with the 4 players in question.

Regardless, we are where we are and while it’s attracting national attention now, hopefully it’ll be resolved soon, blow over and a good win next win next Thursday night will see it not being mentioned again.
Doon exile....

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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by Slugger »

Good posts above and far removed from the ignorant ranting that I've seen on other social media.

One thing that should be paramount in all considerations is the physical welfare of these young fellas. They are still growing and developing and for years young teenagers have been training on a Fri night, playing a match on a Sat morning, not warming down or refueling properly perhaps rushing to a training session in another sport later that day, perhaps even another match on Sunday, different sports, different age groups, playing out of their age group ...

I've been involved in underage sport for over 30 years and have witnessed so many talented lads who never reached their potential due to chronic injuries stemming from the above practices. Too many underage mentors are pushing lads through pain for victory at all cost. We are kidding ourselves if we really believe that our U15 club hurling mentor at Thursday night's training doesn't know that Jim played a big school game that day and had soccer training last night and has a football quarter final on Saturday (after the school training Sat morning)...

The solution is simple but unfortunately won't happen. There needs to be COMMUNICATION and COMPROMISE between mentors of all sports that an underage player is involved in. Parents need to take responsibility on behalf of their child also. Fitness and conditioning work should be strictly tailored for the individual across all the sports that he/she is involved in.

I met a player recently that I had coached about 18 years ago. Great great talent. Played everything. Never reached his potential. He's now in his 30s. Can hardly make a Junior B bench. "I've always had weak ankles" he tells me. The truth is that I failed him by pushing him for 1 more sprint after he'd been sprinting on a soccer pitch that morning. His parents failed him by not approaching me and telling me that. His soccer mentor failed him by not sending me a quick text saying to watch him, he'd turned his ankle that morning.

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Pat Mustard
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Re: Kids dropped from development squad

Post by Pat Mustard »

20220413_103801.jpg
20220413_103801.jpg (250.14 KiB) Viewed 7258 times
So we can't accommodate our own kids but kids from other countries are ok. This is just nepotism at its best

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