private joker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:37 pm
The last game of the league and the joe mcdonagh were always the most important. The league set up is a farce. The championship will be far more even. Offaly will do well to contest the final. Antrim will win it out. The mgt team that are in place now need to absolutely stay on next year and if possible the year after. They are going the right way and doing the right training. The players need 4 to 5 years consistent training. A change is mgt would be a disaster. The s & c work been done by clubs is a real concern. It's where offaly are lacking. You need to be physically able to hold your ground as well as hurl.
Agree. Offaly need Ml. Fennelly & team to stay on, see this defeat as a party of the learning process. The last we want in Offaly is a panic reaction, and change of management.
Who else will take over?, the flat earth brigade?
antrim overwhelming favs now for joe mcdonagh. they are further on than us. and playing at a higher level longer. hard see how we can turn it around sadly.
I hope Fennelly stays on too, but realistically will he, I am hearing 4 or 5 years for all this work to come through, I cannot see him staying that long, maybe (and its a maybe) he will do next year but I am sure there are other jobs much nearer to home he would be interested in. When Offaly lost to Carlow and were relegated a good few years ago, I was speaking to a county board delegate who said Offaly would be better off staying up in the old format where they were struggling in the then Division 2....I havent see a whole pile of change to be honest, we were getting severe hidings that time by the big teams and are still getting them...already the "todays game was always the important game" has started and we have lost that, not by a point or 2 but by alot more and always looked like losing...as I said earlier, lads that are not involved that might add to the set up need to be got back if possible...lots of skillful players but no "engines" in the team...Joe McDonagh will be a tough battle for us...
Not sure what is meant by "today's game was the important one has started already" . Today's game in the league was always going to happen. There was no way that offaly were winning a single game in that league. They were always going to be playing either laois or Antrim in the last game.
Players to come back? Too late now. Maybe next year, and in reality, they'd make little or no difference.
it was said above "we all knew todays game was always going to be a crunch game" (paraphrased here)...its probably too late this season for players not involved to get back in board as unlike years ago when teams did parachute in players at the expense of others, thankfully that day has gone in all grades from what I see...but next year is another year, and there are some who would definitely make a difference based on previous form anyway (no guarantee I know that form can drop) but we are lacking an engine in the team..one or two players can give that buzz and drive we dont currently have...fair dues to the lads involved, how they commit is beyond me and I hurled myself for a number of years..its not for everyone now regardless of ability..
I was running off our scoring and conceding in all 5 group game and then todays 6th game relegation play off. Total scored 5-94 total conceded 20-142.
Including todays 6th game we didnt average 1 goal a game (take out todays 6th game and we do average 1 a game) but without we avveraged 0-15 a game. Our concessions averaged at 3-23 per game (thats 17 points defeat on average)
Convert all goals and points to point for averages and round up/down to nearest decimal we get Offaly scoring 0-18 and conceding 0-34 (we gain a point)
I didnt bother going back to Walsh cup. I suppose the proof is in the pudding as they say.
Antrim on the other hand: Antrim total scored: 12-106 and Antrim conceded 17-120 over 6 games (5 group and relegation playoff)
Averages: Antrim 2-17 Opposition 2-20 (average 3 point defeat - V Tipp was way the heaviest) all scores converted to points an Antrims defeats were 5 points.
Offalys were average 16/17 point defeats V Antrims 3/5 point defeats accurately describes todays defeat I suppose. Offaly average sored 0-18 and Antrims is 0-28 if we want to be exactly exact as they say...
It's just 7 weeks since Offaly started the league campaign vs Galway. There is a limit to what you can do in a short time window when you're faced with a massive shock from the rise in standard. What looked like improvements against Klare and Wexford may have equally down to these teams realising that Offaly were well off the standard and not being too pushed. Yesterday was a stark reminder of the scale of improvement needed.
However, there are several more weeks of hurling to be done this year and Offaly can keep building.
After Offaly face Antrim in the Joe McDonagh they are have Meath, Down and Carlow. The aim should be give Antrim and stiffer game the next day out and to try and get into the Joe McD final with wins in the other matches. It will be a challenge but not impossible if we are learning and improving.
I suppose this time around we "should" expect to get results against the Meaths and Carlows etc. (no guarantees though) Antrim will be a test again for sure...we have made progress I suppose but it just goes to show how far back we have gone if cant win a game in Division one and lose the relegation play off to Antrim by 10 points (absolutely no disrespect to Antrim either) but the other division contained Kilkenny and Waterford and I suppose we can be thankful we hadnt to face either of those...get experience is one thing and losing is part of that but losing by 20 or 30 points is of no use to to any team..roll on the JMCD and see how it goes.
To be fair to lads, We had fallen hugely down the ladder. This is a new team. Yesterday, we were without our full back (Burke) and Ravenhill in midfield. With injuries etc, our axis of Ravenhill and Fox in midfield was broken up and without that physicality, we struggled. That may change for next day. I give us every chance to compete in and win Joe McDonagh. If we do, that is a great year. Westmeath won it last year after lots of struggles in the league. We are still only building.
On the positives, we have genuine competition for goals. Corcoran seems to be ahead at moment but there won't be much between Corcoran and Clancy. We have really good young lads like Joey Keenaghan, Killian Sampson and Ciaran Burke getting established in the backs - all under 23 i'd say. That said, we could have done with Jordan Quinn this year when the injuries started - he would have slotted in seamlessly and Conneely could have been left at 6. You can probably add Jack Screeney to that in terms of developing competition in backs - or anywhere for that matter.
Cleary, Kelly and Ravenhill and likely Fox will contest for midfield berths. In the forwards, John Murphy has really developed as a young player, and likes of Luke O Connor and Brian Duignan and Liam Langton are very much learning their trade too at this level and this experience will stand to them. Eoin Cahill reminds me of a young John Troy with his wrists and is developing real experience too. Getting Oisin Kelly back will be key to us making next step. He is a young man too and hopefully we might see him in a month or two if we are still hurling at that stage.
All told, there is a lot to look forward to and we are where we kind of expected to be. The next step now is to try and win Joe Mac.
all is grand upto 8 and 8 positions, from there on we seem not sure of who to start where...and we dont have one or two marquee forwards to bang in 2-03 or more per game..Oisin Kelly can do it when on the team but not consistently either, most teams have 2 or 3 forwards capable of scoring sums like that in most games, if one doesnt do it the other does etc. we dont have one of them that I see, and not seeing them do it at lower level is a worry but as you say we are a work in progress..the JMCD is to be looked forward to when a few injuries will clear up and maybe get players back in their own positions...we will score points all day long, its the goals I worry about...but lets see how it goes..
Only game I saw was in horrendous conditions in Birr for the Dublin game in the Walsh cup.
I was expecting that Antrim might beat us, but I was shocked at how comfortable it was.
We have been targeted as a team that leaks goals and are easy to run at. That needs to be addressed, and hopefully injured players will be able to get back. I think that there is a definite opportunity to learn from this game and the team needs a huge challenge and take it on up in Antrim again.
It may all come down to Kerry away but we can't take any team for granted, with Carlow away a particular challenge.
I had high hopes for Fennelly and the management team, and don't want to comment on whether he has improved us or what direction we are going in overall. This is because I don't know enough about the general hurling scene. But what I do know is that there is a shocking turnover of players in the county and it is really difficult for many of our players in their first or second years of senior hurlilng and must imagine that this is part of the difficulty for the management.
I would hope that the management and the players will be able to regroup over the next few weeks and the learnings from Div 1 will stand to them when they get going in the J MC competition.
Small point BNM man, you've made your point with Klare, (mostly to yourself), time to let it go now like a good chap
We lads the League was always going to be tough.
Wexford, Galway, Limerick and Clare are miles ahead of us.
The Clare game was the interesting one. We stayed with Clare more or less for 50 mins and then they change the way they were playing and in 10 mins destroy us .
The issues
Averaging 17.2 points a game
Conceding 33.8 points a game.
Laois were close to us in the league table.
the conceded 33.2 a game
But scored 20.6 a game.
Can't win a puckout. Puckout turnover killing the any progress.
Soft down the middle of the pitch.
Little understanding of a defense system.
Aggression and desire in the tackle.
The good things.
We have lots of lovely hurlers in the county.
We are Fit.
The low point
Gearóid McInerney goal. McInerney is struggling to make the Galway team cause he got no pace, He was still faster that the whole Offaly team.
The high point. Eoughan Cahill Goal from a free vs Antrim. a great strike.
The Antrim game.
Offaly Score from play 0-11 Antrim score from play 2-16.
We going to struggle over the Joe Mcdonagh.
Our team is set up to play the beautiful game and everyone else has a element of mean and nasty players to stop that.
There is nothing simple in Hurling.
Limerick, Waterford, Wexford Kilkenny and other are on or over the line all the time.
We so far back for the line we can't see it.
Again the one thing not lacking here is hurlers and that a good start.
I don't want to be harsh but there are too many contradictions in that post but one that stands out,
"We are fit" v Gearoid Mc is faster than anyone on the Offaly team.
But I agree with some points, we do lack savvy in the tackle (whatever the tackle is these days is another story as I believe the tackle is refereed completely different as you go up the divisions!), and are too easy to attack down the middle.
"Lots of lovely hurlers in the county"....what do you mean with this? Or is this a thinly veiled swipe in that they have skill but can't make an impact as don't have the strength or the speed.
I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say that I have sympathy for the players in the county today, and say they are suffering because of the lack of any coherent evolution of coaching to match the evolution of the game....not due to education but due to stubborness on the behalf of the hurling fraternity (with a few exceptions!). Hopefully that is changing. And it is incumbent on supporters to get out and support them over next number of weeks. Tie in a club trip to Kerry or Antrim, but even 300 in either venue could make a difference to these lads.
Gearoid McInerney who clearly has no pace (and turns like an articulated lorry but that’s neither here nor there) running away from our entire team is an example of our lack of pace rather than fitness.
Controversial or not, I agree with you here. 100%.
ah lethimoutwithit wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:03 pm
I'm going to be a bit controversial here and say that I have sympathy for the players in the county today, and say they are suffering because of the lack of any coherent evolution of coaching to match the evolution of the game....not due to education but due to stubborness on the behalf of the hurling fraternity (with a few exceptions!). Hopefully that is changing.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
