Club Hurling championship

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
frankthetank
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by frankthetank »

County hurling semi - final weekend. Thankfully I am old enough to remember great Sunday double headers in Birr with crowds gathered on the bank in SBP and then onto Connaught St for post match analysis. Halcyon days indeed.

This weekend I feel will see the neutral observer drawn to Birr rather than Tullamore. A novel semi -final pairing, any senior semi - final with Shinrone in it would be novel, with no shortage of quality on show. It really feels like The Moment of Truth has arrived for Shinrone. Maybe not now or never but close nevertheless. With the Quarter Final hurdle overcome, or removed if you want to be pedantic, is this their time?

Shinrone are what I would describe as a momentum team. Not even over the course of a season but it can even happen during a match. I have seen them steamroll teams when the momentum goes with them and I have seen them squander massive leads when it goes against. This game could be the exact same. If they start fast and settle early they are in with a huge chance. However if Coolderry rattle of an early 1-03 without reply could the mental demons raise their heads? A strong possibility. But this Shinrone teams seems different. They seem to have a bit of steel about them in the likes of the 2 Doughans and the 2 Clearys. Jason Sampson is close to the best forward in Offaly on current form. They are mobile and use the ball really well. A lot to like as POTH would say. And they have what Coolderry don't have....recent underage success.

But let's be honest here, doubts still remain. The sheer volume of knockout games they have lost over the last 13 years can't all be put down to being beaten by the better team. 2019 was one of the biggest mental implosions I've ever seen from a a team and 2016 was bordering on ludicrous, how they threw away a 14 point half time lead. Maybe lessons have been learned. It just seems different this year.

Coolderry on the other hand are, well, Coolderry. You know exactly what you are going to get. Countering it is difficult. Very. The softening ground will suit their back line which has a lack of pace but wont be as exposed. They have huge experience all over the field and leaders up the spine. They also have in abundance what Shinrone don't.....recent senior success. However beating the same team 3 times in big games in the same season is a challenging thing to do. Will Trevor Fletcher have learned enough to get Shinrone over the line? Maybe the question should be will Trevor Fletcher keep himself calm enough on the sideline to get Shinrone over the line. He has failed in this regard before.

Really tricky one to call but the safe call has to be Coolderry.

The other semi-final doesn't get the juices flowing as much. I think it's just because people have almost grown weary of a perceived St Rynaghs / KK duopoly. Rynaghs seem to have their number at the moment so should get the win here in a tight one. K/K are however coming like an oncoming train with all the underage success so I would expect them to start to mop up senior titles over the coming decade.

In the Senior B Lusmagh need to beware. Clodaigh Gaels group performances were patchy to say the least in 2020 but they really turned up in the semi -final. I wouldn't be surprised if they put up a big score.

On the other hand Tullamore didnt turn up at all last year in their senior B semi final and a late goal took the bad look off their score vs Drumcullen. If this happens again Clara have a chance. Momentum is with them after last weekend's football results. A shock result here is a live possibility.

Finally in the relegation final from Senior A it's very difficult to see anything other than a Seir Kieran win. If the sod is heavy and it stays low scoring Drumcullen could stay in the game but they just don't have the firepower to match Clareen. More than likely 2021 will be Drumcullen's last stint in senior hurling for a very long time.

frankthetank
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by frankthetank »

Dodge83 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:51 pm Can anyone explain to me what is the whole point in playing cris cross in championship groups ? It was used in the junior hurling championship this year and because 4 teams finished on the same points there is now a playoff group to decide who progresses, which will drag on for a few weeks. This is unfair to the other teams who qualified and now must wait for these games to be played and will find it hard to get challenge games to keep themselves sharp. What was wrong with the traditional group set up ??
2 groups of five with traditional format equals one team not playing on a given weekend.

Also the exact same scenario happened in the Junior Championship around 5 years ago due to walkovers been given. And that was played with a traditional format.

Plain of the Herbs
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Thoughts on Shinrone

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

That’s a wonderful thought-provoking assessment of Shinrone by Frankthetank there. A few things to add (thoughts which were provoked by Tank, if you like).

So Shinrone are on the go for a decade or so. No need to panic, or throw out half the team, if they don’t make it tomorrow. Kilcormac-Killoughey were coming from about 1996 and didn’t win one until 2012. Several of the Coolderry block were on the go for a decade before they won their second Seán Robbins. They’ve an excellent underage conveyor, arguably the best in south Offaly heartland, so nothing to worry about there.

Neighbours. Shinrone could have done without Coolderry being semi-final opposition. It took until 1960 before they ever beat Coolderry, then 2000 before the next time, and 2019 before the next. Other hand, they beat those neighbours decisively in 2019. And their sole semi-final win was over Coolderry. And their second team beat Coolderry three months ago in the Intermediate final.

I saw Shinrone v Coolderry earlier this year, where Shinrone produced the full spectrum as only they can. Spellbindingly brilliant for fifteen minutes, I was thinking they should be competing in Leinster. Dominant on the ball, the Doughans controlling the game, supremely skillful, mixing the short and the long game. Continued to hurl well but the scores dried up in the second quarter as Coolderry began to get a grip. Coolderry introduced Kevin Brady after around 40 minutes and even though Brady did nothing, Shinrone visibly collapsed. How could that happen?

And there lies the rub. Teams will be met with all sorts of curve balls during the course of a match. And you change something to overcome that. But Shinrone just seem to collapse when hit with a micro setback. Item: 2019’s quarter-final v Birr, mentioned by Frankthetank, and somebody else earlier this week, I can’t recall who. Thing is, Birr’s taking an early lead into a wind shouldn’t have caused panic in the third minute. And Shinrone’s skills and ability to keep the ball meant they were well equipped to hurl, and score readily, into a wind.

Whatever, they can’t win 2019’s quarter-final now. Or 2016’s, or any of the rest of them. They can only win tomorrow’s. They will encounter setbacks over the course of the hour. Someone will pick up an injury and have to go off, they will have to hurl into the wind in the first half, they will have to hurl with the wind in the first half and turn over with a slender lead, they will hit the post, Coolderry will spring Martin Corcoran, the referee will get a call wrong that may or may not make a difference on the scoreboard, a key forward will find himself on the periphery of the game, they will hit five wides one after the other, Dan Doughan might be forced to track Brian Carroll. Those things are part and parcel of the game. You gotta get on with it and hurl the next ball. If Shinrone can manage that, they will go a long way towards winning.

I like the way the current Shinrone team is set up. Many will say they are a young team, and in several respects they are. But more importantly, they are old enough. Seán Cleary, Dónal Morkan, Jason Sampson, Darren O’Meara and Joe Cleary are around for over a decade. Joe Cleary is a hugely underrated hurler. Frankthetank is right to note Jason Sampson, who has scored 5 goals and 7 points from play this year. The next underage generation won 2013’s Minor final of which Declan and Adrian Cleary and Dan and Conor Doughan remain. Midfield probably suits Adrian Cleary best. And there are the recent additions, goalkeeper Éamonn Cleary, Dara Maher, DJ McLoughlin and Killian Sampson who don’t have a history of losing serial quarter-finals. The younger Sampson has quickly grown into a leader, comfortable with the frees.

Coolderry. We thought 2015 was their swansong. Then there was the 2018 resurrection, and now they seem to be running in three year cycles. And if Shinrone don’t make it, they’ll be back next year. The conveyor will continue to roll. I just hope, for the sake of their sanity, that they can ride out the upsets. If they are to win, the game will be up for decision in the 62nd minute. And I hope, for the sake of their sanity they will edge it. Maybe they just might.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Dodge83
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Dodge83 »

frankthetank wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:53 pm
Dodge83 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:51 pm Can anyone explain to me what is the whole point in playing cris cross in championship groups ? It was used in the junior hurling championship this year and because 4 teams finished on the same points there is now a playoff group to decide who progresses, which will drag on for a few weeks. This is unfair to the other teams who qualified and now must wait for these games to be played and will find it hard to get challenge games to keep themselves sharp. What was wrong with the traditional group set up ??
2 groups of five with traditional format equals one team not playing on a given weekend.

Also the exact same scenario happened in the Junior Championship around 5 years ago due to walkovers been given. And that was played with a traditional format.
Are you referring to 2017 ? Belmont beat Crinkill in a play off game and then played Shinrone to decide who topped the group.(Crinkill & Belmont played 2 hugely entertaining semi final games that year , Belmont winning the replay by a goal after extra time. The 2 best games I seen that year at any grade!!) That was only over 2 weekends , this time it’s dragging out a bit. Personally I think it works better with the traditional format.

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive »

Coolderry win by 3 points over Shinrone. Clodiagh Gaels win by 0-23 to Lusmagh’s 0-17 today, Lusmagh put in a good second half, and were just 2 behind, but the Gaels found their shooting boots to finish 6 ahead at the end.

jimbob17
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by jimbob17 »

Coolderry deserved the win - but just about. Shinrone acquitted themseves very well after the third goal went in early in second half to go about 9 clear. In fact Shinrone will feel that the 2 goals either side of half time were both preventable and these had huge impact on game.

There was very little in it for all of first half but the second goal just before half time was a real downer for Shinrone as much as it was a tonic for Coolderry. The 3rd goal looked like a thrown pass before a good finish and could have been blown for a foul. In fact there were lots of incidents where hand-passes were thrown and blown as frees when picked up by the referee who had a very good game - particularly in his application of advantage rule.

From here to the finish Shinrone dominated and got 6pts on trot. It was getting very exciting with Shinrone looking for goals before Coolderry replied with 2pts to bridge gap to 5pts again. Shinrone stayed with it in fairness and pulled back into 3 pts before the clock ran out on them.

What I noticed - Coolderry are a seasoned team but they were really strong and physical and in the rucks today, they came out with lots of dirty ball. They are really good at this and the conditions suited Coolderry more than Shinrone in this respect. Brian Carroll was excellent but they have more than him. They must have brought on 4 subs in forwards too so they have a bench they feel are up to the level which goes against what people say about them being in decline. Corcoran scored 3 or 4 pts from distant frees today and this is an extra armour in their locker that most teams don't have. Coolderry linked very well together with little slip handpasses and best man always got the ball. It was a real team effort and they played for each other. Kevin Connolly was excellent at 14 and moved around a lot. Worth bringing back into county panel based on today.

Shinrone got lot closer than many would have thought after 3rd goal went in and really died with their boots on. All credit to them for this, they have had a good year and should take great confidence from their performance today. They are not too far off the mark. Coolderry are far from on the wane and if conditions are any way similar, I think they will win the final!
jimbob

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive »

jimbob17 wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:25 pm Coolderry deserved the win - but just about. Shinrone acquitted themseves very well after the third goal went in early in second half to go about 9 clear. In fact Shinrone will feel that the 2 goals either side of half time were both preventable and these had huge impact on game.

There was very little in it for all of first half but the second goal just before half time was a real downer for Shinrone as much as it was a tonic for Coolderry. The 3rd goal looked like a thrown pass before a good finish and could have been blown for a foul. In fact there were lots of incidents where hand-passes were thrown and blown as frees when picked up by the referee who had a very good game - particularly in his application of advantage rule.

From here to the finish Shinrone dominated and got 6pts on trot. It was getting very exciting with Shinrone looking for goals before Coolderry replied with 2pts to bridge gap to 5pts again. Shinrone stayed with it in fairness and pulled back into 3 pts before the clock ran out on them.
What I noticed - Coolderry are a seasoned team but they were really strong and physical and in the rucks today, they came out with lots of dirty ball. They are really good at this and the conditions suited Coolderry more than Shinrone in this respect. Brian Carroll was excellent but they have more than him. They must have brought on 4 subs in forwards too so they have a bench they feel are up to the level which goes against what people say about them being in decline. Corcoran scored 3 or 4 pts from distant frees today and this is an extra armour in their locker that most teams don't have. Coolderry linked very well together with little slip handpasses and best man always got the ball. It was a real team effort and they played for each other. Kevin Connolly was excellent at 14 and moved around a lot. Worth bringing back into county panel based on today.

Shinrone got lot closer than many would have thought after 3rd goal went in and really died with their boots on. All credit to them for this, they have had a good year and should take great confidence from their performance today. They are not too far off the mark. Coolderry are far from on the wane and if conditions are any way similar, I think they will win the final!
It seemed that Shinrone’s second half heroics just came up short today, according to RTE radio report. So Coolderry are very much alive heading to the county final. Should be an interesting
decider.

Dodge83
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Dodge83 »

There is no relegation from Junior A this year. Anyone know why ?

Dodge83
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Dodge83 »

jimbob17 wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:25 pm Coolderry deserved the win - but just about. Shinrone acquitted themseves very well after the third goal went in early in second half to go about 9 clear. In fact Shinrone will feel that the 2 goals either side of half time were both preventable and these had huge impact on game.

There was very little in it for all of first half but the second goal just before half time was a real downer for Shinrone as much as it was a tonic for Coolderry. The 3rd goal looked like a thrown pass before a good finish and could have been blown for a foul. In fact there were lots of incidents where hand-passes were thrown and blown as frees when picked up by the referee who had a very good game - particularly in his application of advantage rule.

From here to the finish Shinrone dominated and got 6pts on trot. It was getting very exciting with Shinrone looking for goals before Coolderry replied with 2pts to bridge gap to 5pts again. Shinrone stayed with it in fairness and pulled back into 3 pts before the clock ran out on them.

What I noticed - Coolderry are a seasoned team but they were really strong and physical and in the rucks today, they came out with lots of dirty ball. They are really good at this and the conditions suited Coolderry more than Shinrone in this respect. Brian Carroll was excellent but they have more than him. They must have brought on 4 subs in forwards too so they have a bench they feel are up to the level which goes against what people say about them being in decline. Corcoran scored 3 or 4 pts from distant frees today and this is an extra armour in their locker that most teams don't have. Coolderry linked very well together with little slip handpasses and best man always got the ball. It was a real team effort and they played for each other. Kevin Connolly was excellent at 14 and moved around a lot. Worth bringing back into county panel based on today.

Shinrone got lot closer than many would have thought after 3rd goal went in and really died with their boots on. All credit to them for this, they have had a good year and should take great confidence from their performance today. They are not too far off the mark. Coolderry are far from on the wane and if conditions are any way similar, I think they will win the final!
I had backed Coolderry to win the senior this year a few weeks back. A lot of people writing them off , saying they are past it but obviously not. A good mix of youth and experience. Also losing David Tooher to injury was a blow as he is a very exciting young hurler. Playing either St Rynaghs or Kk in the final it’s going to be a tight game and hard to call but Coolderry are more than capable of winning it.

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive »

frankthetank wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:52 pm County hurling semi - final weekend. Thankfully I am old enough to remember great Sunday double headers in Birr with crowds gathered on the bank in SBP and then onto Connaught St for post match analysis. Halcyon days indeed.

This weekend I feel will see the neutral observer drawn to Birr rather than Tullamore. A novel semi -final pairing, any senior semi - final with Shinrone in it would be novel, with no shortage of quality on show. It really feels like The Moment of Truth has arrived for Shinrone. Maybe not now or never but close nevertheless. With the Quarter Final hurdle overcome, or removed if you want to be pedantic, is this their time?

Shinrone are what I would describe as a momentum team. Not even over the course of a season but it can even happen during a match. I have seen them steamroll teams when the momentum goes with them and I have seen them squander massive leads when it goes against. This game could be the exact same. If they start fast and settle early they are in with a huge chance. However if Coolderry rattle of an early 1-03 without reply could the mental demons raise their heads? A strong possibility. But this Shinrone teams seems different. They seem to have a bit of steel about them in the likes of the 2 Doughans and the 2 Clearys. Jason Sampson is close to the best forward in Offaly on current form. They are mobile and use the ball really well. A lot to like as POTH would say. And they have what Coolderry don't have....recent underage success.

But let's be honest here, doubts still remain. The sheer volume of knockout games they have lost over the last 13 years can't all be put down to being beaten by the better team. 2019 was one of the biggest mental implosions I've ever seen from a a team and 2016 was bordering on ludicrous, how they threw away a 14 point half time lead. Maybe lessons have been learned. It just seems different this year.

Coolderry on the other hand are, well, Coolderry. You know exactly what you are going to get. Countering it is difficult. Very. The softening ground will suit their back line which has a lack of pace but wont be as exposed. They have huge experience all over the field and leaders up the spine. They also have in abundance what Shinrone don't.....recent senior success. However beating the same team 3 times in big games in the same season is a challenging thing to do. Will Trevor Fletcher have learned enough to get Shinrone over the line? Maybe the question should be will Trevor Fletcher keep himself calm enough on the sideline to get Shinrone over the line. He has failed in this regard before.

Really tricky one to call but the safe call has to be Coolderry.

The other semi-final doesn't get the juices flowing as much. I think it's just because people have almost grown weary of a perceived St Rynaghs / KK duopoly. Rynaghs seem to have their number at the moment so should get the win here in a tight one. K/K are however coming like an oncoming train with all the underage success so I would expect them to start to mop up senior titles over the coming decade.

In the Senior B Lusmagh need to beware. Clodaigh Gaels group performances were patchy to say the least in 2020 but they really turned up in the semi -final. I wouldn't be surprised if they put up a big score.

On the other hand Tullamore didnt turn up at all last year in their senior B semi final and a late goal took the bad look off their score vs Drumcullen. If this happens again Clara have a chance. Momentum is with them after last weekend's football results. A shock result here is a live possibility.

Finally in the relegation final from Senior A it's very difficult to see anything other than a Seir Kieran win. If the sod is heavy and it stays low scoring Drumcullen could stay in the game but they just don't have the firepower to match Clareen. More than likely 2021 will be Drumcullen's last stint in senior hurling for a very long time.
Last edited by SearingDrive on Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

frankthetank
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by frankthetank »

Seir Kieran won 2-22 to 2-17.

Dodge83
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Dodge83 »

Carrig & Riverstown beating Birr by 1 point in Junior B final this morning in Kinnitty. Birr threw away a 7 point lead. They had a strong team on paper with some ex senior players on show. Fair play to Carrig & Riverstown for the comeback. Final score Carrig & Riverstown 3-12 Birr 1-17

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive »

frankthetank wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:05 pm Seir Kieran won 2-22 to 2-17.
Correct. Apologies for that oversight.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Fairplayalways »

frankthetank wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:53 pm
Dodge83 wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:51 pm Can anyone explain to me what is the whole point in playing cris cross in championship groups ? It was used in the junior hurling championship this year and because 4 teams finished on the same points there is now a playoff group to decide who progresses, which will drag on for a few weeks. This is unfair to the other teams who qualified and now must wait for these games to be played and will find it hard to get challenge games to keep themselves sharp. What was wrong with the traditional group set up ??
2 groups of five with traditional format equals one team not playing on a given weekend.

Also the exact same scenario happened in the Junior Championship around 5 years ago due to walkovers been given. And that was played with a traditional format.
I asked a hurling man that question during the summer and his answer was "they get an extra game" which fair enough is correct as you play every team in the other group and vice versa...I still dont know why, it is novel enough, but you are in a a group ahead of teams you are not playing which is sort of strange...

private joker
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by private joker »

Clodaigh gaels vs tullamore in senior B final. Should be a good game. Neither team are fit for Senior A at this moment in time but I'd say Tullamore are better equipped to maybe win one or two matches in senior A. Clodaigh gaels went from nearly been in a relegation final to the county final so don't know how they would fair out in senior A. Quite poorly I would think. Senior B championship this year was a very evenly contested one. Drumcullen going down and Birr coming up will make for another good one next year.

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