Offaly Hurling 2021

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
private joker
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by private joker »

Kilkenny have had a dedicated stats team for the last 7 years. They cover every aspect. They just like to let on that they don't.
Would not listen or believe a word out of kk mgt team on anything to do with hurling.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

A rake of Offaly lads are going to need a stiff drink after reading that. Shur Kilkinny don't do tactics.
More won't believe it.
More will equate the seven year time span to the loosening of Kilkenny's hurling domination.
private joker wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 3:55 pm Kilkenny have had a dedicated stats team for the last 7 years. They cover every aspect. They just like to let on that they don't.
Would not listen or believe a word out of kk mgt team on anything to do with hurling.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Kevin
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Kevin »

Plain of the Herbs wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 5:18 pm A rake of Offaly lads are going to need a stiff drink after reading that. Shur Kilkinny don't do tactics.
More won't believe it.
More will equate the seven year time span to the loosening of Kilkenny's hurling domination.
private joker wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 3:55 pm Kilkenny have had a dedicated stats team for the last 7 years. They cover every aspect. They just like to let on that they don't.
Would not listen or believe a word out of kk mgt team on anything to do with hurling.
Ruthlessness is all in the preparation.

To believe that Kilkenny don't have a plan to skin their opponents alive in every respect is to believe in superstition.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Fairplayalways »

oneshot wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 4:47 pm another big win and well done to all . people question earlier on what grounds would we beat carlow well today you got the Answer. offalys club hurling is as good or better than whats in carlow wicklow meath and kerry, what was missing from offaly over the last few years was belive and efford from the panel and abit of pride put back into the jersey.

finished the job next weekend again Down in birr and we are back in division 1 . 👍👍
based on last seasons performaces/collapse in many games/results, there was every right to wonder if we could match let alone beat the Carlows/Meaths/Kerrys - they did beat us last season..we do appear to be in a better place this season after watching the games..we wouldnt have know this prior to league commencing..

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Fairplayalways »

of course Kilkenny have a plan, all teams have a plan, Codys point was you have to win the majority of your man to man battles though to win the match..if you dont get the ball you cant play it out to the wings/play it short up the field...all that are examples of plans etc. but if you dont win your man to man battles then the plan is of little use...Kilkenny have better hurlers than most too so thats a big plus in winning the man to man battles..it looks all very well on the tv programmes with a digital marker pointing that when TJ Reid gets the ball, "player X should have been in this postion, he was too far over there etc."..when the heat of battle starts often positions mean nothing and its all hands on pumps when the tide is against you..the good players tend to try to cover everyone elses shortcomings etc. and hence gaps appear...tactics of course they are important but often go out the window in the heat of battle..a few examples on the tv screens at half time or later that night are only clips of when they worked...you dont see the other 60 minutes of the game when its all hands on deck in all postions...I hear the argument..

KeshaWantsTimber
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by KeshaWantsTimber »

Fairplayalways wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:34 pm of course Kilkenny have a plan, all teams have a plan, Codys point was you have to win the majority of your man to man battles though to win the match..if you dont get the ball you cant play it out to the wings/play it short up the field...all that are examples of plans etc. but if you dont win your man to man battles then the plan is of little use...Kilkenny have better hurlers than most too so thats a big plus in winning the man to man battles..it looks all very well on the tv programmes with a digital marker pointing that when TJ Reid gets the ball, "player X should have been in this postion, he was too far over there etc."..when the heat of battle starts often positions mean nothing and its all hands on pumps when the tide is against you..the good players tend to try to cover everyone elses shortcomings etc. and hence gaps appear...tactics of course they are important but often go out the window in the heat of battle..a few examples on the tv screens at half time or later that night are only clips of when they worked...you dont see the other 60 minutes of the game when its all hands on deck in all postions...I hear the argument..

The very reason puck outs are going short and passes going lateral and backways is to avoid man to man battles and many teams are doing this successfully. Teams who want a man to man battle need to figure out a way to lure their opponents into one as very few county teams at an level are allowing ball to be played to 50/50 contests.

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bracknaghboy
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by bracknaghboy »

joe bloggs wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 9:32 pm
bracknaghboy wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 12:24 pm This nonsense that the game has somehow organically "evolved" into it's current state.
It hasn't. It has been hijacked by a bunch of professionals who have systematically destroyed the game to line their own pockets.
Name me one other sport in the world that has changed so dramatically in the space of 10 years?
Gaelic football looks in a healthy state compared to the scutter being served up on the intercounty hurling pitches.

Oh if you want to be entertained go away and do X but don't be watching a hurling match. More nonsense.
Yes, shock horror I do actually want to be entertained when I go to or watch a hurling match......Imagine that!!!!
It should be the other way around.....if you want to fetishise about stats then go do X but don't be interfering with hurling.

POTH and BNM man it must have been absolute torture for ye boys watching hurling in the 90's and 00's. How they you survive all that unscripted play, ground hurling, aerial hurling, loads of mistakes, goalmouth action....oh the horror of it all and not a clipboard to be seen.

Lads are quick to sneer at ground hurling and overhead stuff but the truth is we have nothing today to admire or be entertained by.....all we have is 30 wrestlers literally THROWING the ball around to one another. But hey thats "progress" for ya.
Thats pure head in the sand stuff. Adapt or die.
The game changes, always had.
Im not old enough to remember Wexford innovating by high fielding. I'm sure lads bemoaned the lack of overhead pulling but i bet you no one in Wexford cared a jot when they walked up the steps of the hogan stand.

We all enjoyed the success of the 80s and 90s but just hurling off the cuff won't do now as your opponents will dominate the possession and therefore will emerge on top. Theres nothing more id love to see again.

I agree that the entertainment of watching players compete to win their own ball etc is missing but try playing that game now and you will take a hiding. The only responsibility that county managers have is to get results, the aesthetics are secondary.
I never said above that Offaly would win anything playing the game from 20 years ago. I'm simply highlighting how hurling at the highest level has become for many people borderline unwatchable.
Game plans are not the problem. Every team that ever took to the field ever had a plan. Even having no plan is in and of itself a plan (of sorts).
It's the choreography today thats the problem.
All these pre-rehearsed moves.......short puck out to cornerback then a series of throws (not handpassing.....even that's been killed off) that have been worked on to death on the training pitch.The swarming of an attacker similar to the muggings that happen in Barcelona if you happen to wander down a wrong alley!!
The spontaneity is gone. The "what will happen next" is all but gone. It's too predictable, the players are robots.
I wonder did/do the clipboard stats worshippers ever "get" hurling at all?

Sure if winning and progress are all that matters then theres no problem. Perhaps there'll be a battery operated hurl soon that allow strikes the full length of the pitch and maybe 1000km shots........that would be "progress" and "progress " is always good. Maybe we'll live to see 15 actual robots take on 15 robots since it's not about entertainment as some lads on here say so what what would be the problem with that? Someone call Elon Musk for a prototype!

It's not all doom and gloom. Outside of the top teams the hurling still resembles hurling to a certain degree so we should enjoy that narrow window before that too completely passes.
Also great to see an Offaly team dominating teams and putting them to the sword, it's a dramatic turnaround and you can see they are well up for it.
Perhaps this young team are not carrying the burden of taking heavy beatings at adult level for year after year. Winning is the best habit there is and winning all 5 league games looks on as well as 3 Christy Ring games......a good years work. Theres hope.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Fairplayalways »

KeshaWantsTimber wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 9:11 am
Fairplayalways wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 6:34 pm of course Kilkenny have a plan, all teams have a plan, Codys point was you have to win the majority of your man to man battles though to win the match..if you dont get the ball you cant play it out to the wings/play it short up the field...all that are examples of plans etc. but if you dont win your man to man battles then the plan is of little use...Kilkenny have better hurlers than most too so thats a big plus in winning the man to man battles..it looks all very well on the tv programmes with a digital marker pointing that when TJ Reid gets the ball, "player X should have been in this postion, he was too far over there etc."..when the heat of battle starts often positions mean nothing and its all hands on pumps when the tide is against you..the good players tend to try to cover everyone elses shortcomings etc. and hence gaps appear...tactics of course they are important but often go out the window in the heat of battle..a few examples on the tv screens at half time or later that night are only clips of when they worked...you dont see the other 60 minutes of the game when its all hands on deck in all postions...I hear the argument..

The very reason puck outs are going short and passes going lateral and backways is to avoid man to man battles and many teams are doing this successfully. Teams who want a man to man battle need to figure out a way to lure their opponents into one as very few county teams at an level are allowing ball to be played to 50/50 contests.
If push comes to shove, Kilkenny for example will go one to one and win their battles, they have shown it over the years...they can win the ball outfield so dont fear loosing their own puck outs...as I said elsewhere the lack of crowds have shown up how boring and one paced all this constructed hurling is..I dont know when I seen a hurl broken in a match..Tom Dempsey of Wexford remarked this on his retirement a good few years ago now 21 years ago this year (hard to believe isnt it) how modest hurling had become, he said he thought (this was 21 years ago) the last man he broke hurls with was Martin Hanamy...

private joker
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by private joker »

So if hurls are been broken that makes for a good game? Kk want to go man on man but opposition won't allow it. Kk are trying to change but will need a new manager to achieve that. Get t and drive it hurling is gone. The random play is gone. Took long enough to get to that stage to be honest.

Kevin
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Kevin »

Good luck to the boys this weekend!!!
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Sur lookit
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Sur lookit »

Best of luck this weekend to all involved.
Great performances so far, the bar is set now lads and drive her on.

This non breaking of hurls must surely help with the offset of carbon and as such can only be seen as a positive from an environmentalists point of view #saveourashtrees.

allstar2010
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by allstar2010 »

So true Bracknaghboy, top intercounty hurling as a spectacle has become so boring to watch. Last years All Ireland for example - 0-30 0-16, yawnfest. Teams don’t really try work a goal anymore cos they know they’ll get 3pts just as easy. Lighter sliotars, stronger and fitter players makes it a lot easier to score from distance. Limerick are All Ireland champs and rightly so, they’ve been the best at implementing a plan that makes them hard to beat but how many goals have the scored in their last 5 games? Hardly any mistakes anymore and no real excitement.

I’d prefer to watch a live club game now than watch an intercounty game.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by Fairplayalways »

private joker wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 12:52 pm So if hurls are been broken that makes for a good game? Kk want to go man on man but opposition won't allow it. Kk are trying to change but will need a new manager to achieve that. Get t and drive it hurling is gone. The random play is gone. Took long enough to get to that stage to be honest.
I think (and you) probably read between the lines what Tom Dempsey was saying 21 years ago, was hurling was less physical and becomming non contact...thats what I read what he was saying and it appears he was fairly correct..and yes, games where a hurl arent broken and there are plenty of them are pedestrian with little or no direct clahses and boring in the main..the score of last years All Ireland mentioned elswhere 0-30 tells its own story...so apparently all this constructed pre planned play is way better than the propper 15 V 15 we had in the past...its all ok because hurling has "evolved" (I think no one really knows what that word means or why it is used in hurling terminology...it sounds good though...

kingscounty
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by kingscounty »

Interesting to hear a number of high profile past Kilkenny legends giving out about the state of the game today. Richie Power and Eoin Larkin absolutely slating the way the game has gone and they are finding football more entertaining!

The two of them probably have 20 all Ireland’s between them and have had great battles through the years with Tipp when it was good to watch. Power in particular describing how the games are ‘not enjoyable to watch anymore and that it’s worrying’.

But hey what would they know about hurling!

private joker
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2021

Post by private joker »

Kilkenny, who were properly the main team who would be the most persistent foulers in the game of hurling. That's what is been missed here. Not every free is a foul, but equally not ever free given is wrong either. I think it gas now that kilkenny players are coming out now during their barren period in terms of all irelands. Between 2009 and 2013, they got away with murder.

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