Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Fairplayalways
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Fairplayalways » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:35 pm

the only little thing I notice (and this is regular in Offaly teams/panels especially under Maghan) s is we are on about young players and the age bracket 23 mentioned and bringing them on etc., going by the old system these players have 5 years past since minor, surely by 23 they are beyond "bringing them on"...I noticed the same with one of the Irish soccer up and comming stars some time back, the manager said he (I forget the actual player) was "young" and " he needed time to develop".. when the panel were reviewing the game/managers interview they correctly brought up the point, that any other country with theses star players woudh have the players well integrated by early 20's (paraphrasing here)..wheeling them out to the world with their talents etc. Ireland were sticking with the 36 year old CDM though etc. etc. (just clarifying what the panel were stating the difference in approach)

Bar injury, some of these football lads we mention here are now heading into their 3 league campaign, how much more time do they need?..are they really that good if they need so much time...all the regular up and comming stars are mentioned here, but it all "are they ready for the step up"...its not as if we will be facing Dublin/Kerry/Tyrone/Mayo etc. in 6 weeks time in the league, its Division 3 football, competitive yes, but how long more is it going to take for some of these lads to "make it"...infairness some have and are more or less on the team most days, but some are not, and bar injury, one wonders what is the story with them, in other counties if they are supposedly so good, they are in the team some even in their late teens (Mayo had 2 last year I think)..its not a criticism of the players, are management being too over cautious with trusting these young players, at 23 one woud imagine you are upto speed with the level you are playing at, be it Divsion 1 or Division 3...

Tmacmahon
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Tmacmahon » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:44 pm

paddy Dunican, Ruairi McNamee, Jordan Hayes, David Dempsey shane tierney are all 25 so really they are not young lads brought through by management, they were part of 21 team in 2017 and most if not all were regular under the prevouis management

I actually agree with you fairplay, i heard people say jesse lingard has huge potential, hes 27 or that surely at that stage youve shown your potential

i will stress again i dont care of the age want maughan picks our best players.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Fairplayalways » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:48 pm

I agree with protecting a star minor maybe 17 or 18 for a year or two, but after that they are young men, Kerry are not "cladding" Clifford until 23/4/5..if he hadnt made it by that age in Kerry he would be history and we would all wonder what became of him...I know its a balancing act, but lordy me, we have to get on with it and give these "young lads" their heads and let them off..too much pussy footing around with some of them, again I will say if they are injured fair enough, but then again can you be injured for 3 or 4 years???

Kevin
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Kevin » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:23 pm

Fairplayalways wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:48 pm
I agree with protecting a star minor maybe 17 or 18 for a year or two, but after that they are young men, Kerry are not "cladding" Clifford until 23/4/5..if he hadnt made it by that age in Kerry he would be history and we would all wonder what became of him...I know its a balancing act, but lordy me, we have to get on with it and give these "young lads" their heads and let them off..too much pussy footing around with some of them, again I will say if they are injured fair enough, but then again can you be injured for 3 or 4 years???
Each situation should be looked at on a case by case basis. Keeping that in mind, agree with the idea here without question. Hold them back for too long they could lose interest or when they finally hit the field it’s learned too late that it’s not what the player or the management expected.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

jimbob17
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by jimbob17 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:38 am

Kevin wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:23 pm
Fairplayalways wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:48 pm
I agree with protecting a star minor maybe 17 or 18 for a year or two, but after that they are young men, Kerry are not "cladding" Clifford until 23/4/5..if he hadnt made it by that age in Kerry he would be history and we would all wonder what became of him...I know its a balancing act, but lordy me, we have to get on with it and give these "young lads" their heads and let them off..too much pussy footing around with some of them, again I will say if they are injured fair enough, but then again can you be injured for 3 or 4 years???
Each situation should be looked at on a case by case basis. Keeping that in mind, agree with the idea here without question. Hold them back for too long they could lose interest or when they finally hit the field it’s learned too late that it’s not what the player or the management expected.
Fully agree Kevin. Case by case is the way to go. Clifford was and is outstanding young player, but he had the physicality to go straight into senior team because of his size. You could not argue same with Cian Johnson for example due to size. I think a significant point here is the power and strength work required to get competitive at senior requires at least 2 years solid work (often developing physically for a year or two on extended panel without getting a look in), which means, it is almost impossible now for a minor to go straight to senior (bar being a freak of nature like Clifford).

So the point is that the lads mentioned (most of whom are only 23 or less and not 25 as suggested) have maybe 2 or 3yrs under their belts already with senior set-up and will probably hit their peak physically within the next 4 yrs (24-28). As far as I know, that was a young U21 team that missed out on their final year or two due to change to U20 grade from u21.

This is why it is imperative that the S&C work is done well at early stage and developed through U17 and U20 levels so they are coming out of U20 almost ready for senior physically.

This new appointment is crucial for Offaly going forward as there is some real good talent coming through underage minor and U20 system in last couple of years.
jimbob

Tmacmahon
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Tmacmahon » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:06 am

Tierney and Dempsey were minors in 2015 so they would be 24 this year. Dunican , Hayes , mcnamee all 25 this year, I’m nearly sure none are 23

Tmacmahon
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Tmacmahon » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:24 am

Tmacmahon wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:06 am
Tierney and Dempsey were minors in 2015 so they would be 24 this year. Dunican , Hayes , mcnamee all 25 this year, I’m nearly sure none are 23
Hayes when I think about it could be 24

This is not important in the overall scheme of things.
It’s just great that we are starting to get our best players back in and with Joe like I previously stated he is definitely in the top 26 , joe is clearly an addition as would N Dunne be it’s actually interesting he’s not back and joe is perhaps it’s that joe is younger but Dunne is a better all round player so maybe his and John Maugham relationship is just not fixable. All of this does seem like old news and annoying I know

I agree with you Jim Bob and case by case is the only logical approach,like you said David Clifford is a once off and was physically capable as a minor

Cian will be fine in time he just needs loads of games and to be given enough game time to build his confidence at senior level
Cian has been on the panel since 2018 and for one reason or another has not played championship.
Give him games and he will score all day long will our CJ .

Maugham could be there for a few more years so it’s important we start making significant improvement now.
This is year 3 so after a 5 year reign we hopefully will have made progress that we can be proud of .

Fairplayalways
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Fairplayalways » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:49 pm

unless they are exceptiona talents, they are not going to hang around "bit players" on the panel "developing" at 23/4/5 years of age, their lives will move on, working full time, relationships and possibly marriage and building a home, are they going to hang around while we "develop" them to reach their peaks then at 26/7 years of age????...I dont think so, if lads are involved and are seeing themselves as bit players, grand upto early mid 20's, after that they will move on in their lives (most will)...I hear the the plan etc. and hopefully within 10 years we will have "caught up" so to speak, but the current lot are now mid 20-25 bracket and I cannot see too many hovering around waiting to develop physically or what have you, they either have it now or they havent...they will decide themselves if they are involved fully but still not regular starters, they will drift away, with "taking a year out" and what have you...

jimbob17
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by jimbob17 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:24 pm

Tmacmahon wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:24 am
Tmacmahon wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:06 am
Tierney and Dempsey were minors in 2015 so they would be 24 this year. Dunican , Hayes , mcnamee all 25 this year, I’m nearly sure none are 23
Hayes when I think about it could be 24

This is not important in the overall scheme of things.
It’s just great that we are starting to get our best players back in and with Joe like I previously stated he is definitely in the top 26 , joe is clearly an addition as would N Dunne be it’s actually interesting he’s not back and joe is perhaps it’s that joe is younger but Dunne is a better all round player so maybe his and John Maugham relationship is just not fixable. All of this does seem like old news and annoying I know

I agree with you Jim Bob and case by case is the only logical approach, like you said David Clifford is a once off and was physically capable as a minor

Cian will be fine in time he just needs loads of games and to be given enough game time to build his confidence at senior level
Cian has been on the panel since 2018 and for one reason or another has not played championship.
Give him games and he will score all day long will our CJ .

Maugham could be there for a few more years so it’s important we start making significant improvement now.
This is year 3 so after a 5 year reign we hopefully will have made progress that we can be proud of .
Hayes was also a minor in 15 if I recall correctly, which means that Dempsey, Tierney and Hayes are turning 24 later in year - in which case they are currently only 23 and not 25, which was my point in first place. Johnson is 2 yrs younger as far as I know and lots of other good young lads in there also who are 22/23 yrs old currently such as Colm Doyle Clara, Jack Quinn from Ballycumber, Aaron Leavy (Tullamore) and PJ Daly from Cappincur, all of whom could offer something. The next layer behind are likes of Egan from Edenderry, Donoghue (KK) Bryant (shamrocks) and Farrell Edenderry, all of whom are 19-21. In my opinion, lots of these lads are as good or better than some of the older lads on panel, who will move on in next year or two. There are a couple more just after coming through minor level or still there that will have a lot to offer also going forward.

If managed correctly, in next 2 yrs, we should be heading towards Div 2 in my opinion!
jimbob

Tmacmahon
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Tmacmahon » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:52 pm

Therotically they could have all turned 24 between the first of January and now but I know the evidence is conjectural

NewEra
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by NewEra » Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:23 pm

jimbob17 wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:24 pm
Tmacmahon wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:24 am
Tmacmahon wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:06 am
Tierney and Dempsey were minors in 2015 so they would be 24 this year. Dunican , Hayes , mcnamee all 25 this year, I’m nearly sure none are 23
Hayes when I think about it could be 24

This is not important in the overall scheme of things.
It’s just great that we are starting to get our best players back in and with Joe like I previously stated he is definitely in the top 26 , joe is clearly an addition as would N Dunne be it’s actually interesting he’s not back and joe is perhaps it’s that joe is younger but Dunne is a better all round player so maybe his and John Maugham relationship is just not fixable. All of this does seem like old news and annoying I know

I agree with you Jim Bob and case by case is the only logical approach, like you said David Clifford is a once off and was physically capable as a minor

Cian will be fine in time he just needs loads of games and to be given enough game time to build his confidence at senior level
Cian has been on the panel since 2018 and for one reason or another has not played championship.
Give him games and he will score all day long will our CJ .

Maugham could be there for a few more years so it’s important we start making significant improvement now.
This is year 3 so after a 5 year reign we hopefully will have made progress that we can be proud of .
Hayes was also a minor in 15 if I recall correctly, which means that Dempsey, Tierney and Hayes are turning 24 later in year - in which case they are currently only 23 and not 25, which was my point in first place. Johnson is 2 yrs younger as far as I know and lots of other good young lads in there also who are 22/23 yrs old currently such as Colm Doyle Clara, Jack Quinn from Ballycumber, Aaron Leavy (Tullamore) and PJ Daly from Cappincur, all of whom could offer something. The next layer behind are likes of Egan from Edenderry, Donoghue (KK) Bryant (shamrocks) and Farrell Edenderry, all of whom are 19-21. In my opinion, lots of these lads are as good or better than some of the older lads on panel, who will move on in next year or two. There are a couple more just after coming through minor level or still there that will have a lot to offer also going forward.

If managed correctly, in next 2 yrs, we should be heading towards Div 2 in my opinion!
Tierney and Daly not involved.

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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Tullman » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:40 pm

There will be better forwards before and after CJ but he’s the best finisher I have seen in my time his shot to score ratio is quite ridiculous, there’s questions about whether you can carry him on the county team but when he gets in front of goal you just don’t think he will ever miss.Imagine he had been on the end of one of those goal chances vs Kildare. He’s been struggling bad with injury please god he makes a full recovery.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Fairplayalways » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:09 pm

I hope he recovers fully from his injury, the years are ticking by and good forwards come and go in every county, and Offaly are no exception, he seems to be around now a few years and yet we cannot say we seen him have any sort of run in sucessive league games etc...Niall McNamee will be gone soon and then we will be saying "if he only had McNamee beside him now he would be great" etc..I am not upto speed with his his injuries or whatever but I am hearing about them on here for I dont know how long at this stage....I wish him well and he surely needs to be cutting his teeth fairly shortly, be it Division 3 level, it wont be any easier the higher the divisions if we get there...no guarantee under a new managers as every player knows...

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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Sur lookit » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:49 pm

Johnson having an operation, not sure how long out for.
Lee Pearson & Cathal D have 2 years u20, Bill Carroll, Chilly Donnelly, Aidan Bracken, Kevin Mcdermott all worth a look.

My point is that Maughan has a lot of similar type players. These guys can offer something different. Man markers, hard runners/ball winners to drive on in games for last 20 mins, and give real impact, and get experience.

What level is Conor Lynam and Nathan Poland at now, are they featuring at all strongly at club level. Kyle Higgins is struggling to make an impact for Ferbane. There is a real issue with underage talent v cutting the mustard at senior level, and its important that the balance is gotten right in order to retian promise and build on it without throwing too many young lads in.

Someone said about John Maughan being here for a number of years, I would guess that this year would be his last due to the way he talks about the long drive.
I have sympathy in that there are players that have been blooded during his time, but that was forced initially due to lack of committment from some senior players who decided to leave as is their right. In addition the last year has been a disaster in terms of trying to get preparation in, at this stage they would have had 5 or 6 challenge games played. But anyway, best of luck to them, I would guess that there will be a push to get county panels back together for sometime after 17th March.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Maughan & O' Malley / Dunne & Maher

Post by Fairplayalways » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:10 pm

I think too this next campaign of championship will be his last...if it is, I hope he lets off the shackles and gives the best players their outings on a consistent basis and let us push on...I doubt that wil happen but I hope I am wrong..

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