Offaly Hurling 2020

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
frankthetank
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by frankthetank » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:31 pm

That is a lot of stats to absorb Plain. Wowsers.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:38 pm

My plea of insanity is not too far away...
frankthetank wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:31 pm
That is a lot of stats to absorb Plain. Wowsers.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

llkj
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by llkj » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:24 am

Whether we like it or not, restarts are a key component of hurling. Worryingly, Offaly won just 46% of their own puckout.
Just curious what you define as a restart from a stats point of view? Is it puckouts only or would it include all of the other ways of restarting a game like a line ball or a long range free for example?

private joker
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by private joker » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:22 am

The stats by Brian mcdonnell are very good. The team that kept the ball the most were more successful. Bateing the ball from defence to attack as quickly as possible is not always the way.

Tmacmahon
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Tmacmahon » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:16 pm

There is no correct way to play. If we had good ball winners we could go long more often , we are hamstrung in that we do not have men that are good in the air in 50/50 duals,
so what would we rain balls down on top of lads that can't win primary possession.
we are not slick enough to play through the lines,
or maybe the simple answer is , that no matter what we dont have good enough hurlers, regardless of style, tactics,set ups.
the players tain as hard as anyone and should not be slated not that anyone is slating them to be fair. what im trying to say is we are where we are, because we deserve it and all we can do is focus on the coming generations to try and ensure we improve.

private joker
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by private joker » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Have nothing but admiration for the players. Would never want to slate them.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Fairplayalways » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:36 pm

for my sins, I watched the Offaly V Down game again last night on the Pairc TV, you can look at highlights as most will know...I looked at alot of things in the game, and above re the posession is 100% correct, Down were more assured and confident, planned in their handling and distribution of the ball when they had it, I will go as far as to say they were relaxed, and I mean that, with the backs in particular having little or no resistance in manoeuvering the ball out and down the field, they were better ball winners, catching the longer passes very cleanly etc..simply put Down were the better team, people wont want to hear that, but that is the case.

For the first down Goal, and this is a feature of Offaly hurling over the last few years, there are exceptions in fairness, but the Down players won the ball and ran towards the Offlay goal, expecting to be challenged, but wait, a hurl comes in (yes a hurl but not a body, not a physical challenge) the Down player, sees he can run a bit further, eventually ending up outside the square, stil hurls mainly the only challenge, no phsical bodies, and just when the physical challenges were about to be exerted when the player was on the edge of the square, the Down player kicked the ball to the net, it was a good finish, but with a bit more exerted marking further out, he would have had to at least shoot for a point. Ide say he couldnt believe his luck to get so far.

I noticed the same type of hurl challenge with one of our better forwards (supposed to be anyway) a ball broke between him and his man, the Offaly player virtually stood back out the possible physical challenge, sticking his hurl in to try and prevent the Down player (Conor Woods I think) from lifting the ball, Woods seen no attempt at a physical challenge, he just muscled in on top of the ball, the Offaly player, hand almost on his back aplologetically and let the Down player rise and go with the ball. This was a feature in many areas of the field, our players not putting their body into win the ball, trying to poke it out to their own space so to speak, the Down players swarmed in, threw body over the ball, rising it and gone. Another thing was the Offaly forwards, seemed to be out the field alot for the Down puck outs, the Down keeper had a pick of any of his full back line for most puck outs, and the iriony of that was he stil went long, and Down still won the ball out the field, despite what one would be assuming would be more Offaly players around the midfield area.

For the 2nd Down goal, Damien Egan, whom I think in fairness always puts in a decent shift, but was caught in the full back position (I dont know how) but criminally with his back to the the high ball speculative ball coming in, surely a basic training instruction would be (I do it at under age) is if your in the full back line, you are facing the ball at all times, if the fullforward wants to stay on the edge of the square, stay with him, dont come out to have to go back in, but lord lads this is basic stuff..

Critically, we missed one or two frees very close to end of normal time, and they were massive misses as it turned out. For the penalties, woeful poor that only 4 lads initially, then the keeper, and while a good keeper, he is not in intercounty condition, I dont want to personalisze it too much but he isnt what you would expect of a keeper, again if people arent available, is this the plan B??..if so, I am afraid its not good enough. Fiar dues to him for taking the last penalty, but I assume it was nerves, as he was so erratic in his approach to lift the ball and his striking of it was woeful, again I will hope it was nerves and not carelessness, if it was the latter, the management needed to on top of this and say "look we have to nail these penalites lads, we need our regular hitters to hit these, I hope it wasnt an attitude of "here give me the last one, Ill bury it" as a more cotrolled approach I would expect would be needed in that scenario.

I am afraid after my second watching of the game, our type of hurling, and some of the players we have playing it are not combining. We are a light touch outfit, with the exception of a few, whom in fairness put in the shifts game in game out, and if things dont change, we will be stuck here for a long long time, look at the other bigger games at the weekend, big men imposing their bodies to try and win possession, we re 2 paces back, sticking the hurl in to "test the water" and if its safe, in we go, if not, let the ohter player off with it...I am no expert, but for ex intercounty hurlers being involved, what do they see that we dont, because there is a massive difference. Yes, they are doing a job, not too many would take up, fair dues, but I would love to see what they do in training, their training games in particular, i would love to see the intensity of them..

Liam2020
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Liam2020 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:17 pm

Will Michael fennelly and Co be held to account for a disastrous 2020?
Having watch training twice I was not surprised, junior b would have more cutting in it, but we need to move on quickly offaly have to get back in leinster by 2023 and looking at the best young hurlers around the county they 2023 team could be something like this. Have I forgot anyone?
M troy
R carty
J Quinn
Ó murphy
R ravinhill
B connelly
J screeny
C kiely
C kiely
B duignan
S dolan
K sampson
C Mitchell
Ó kelly
Ó Cahill

private joker
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by private joker » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:11 pm

I saw training early in the year and there was lots of cut to it . Well organised, physically tough training. But it was at a slower pace to the tipperary or galways of this world. But what can you do. The players were going as hard at it, as they could.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Fairplayalways » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:59 am

Liam2020 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:17 pm
Will Michael fennelly and Co be held to account for a disastrous 2020?
Having watch training twice I was not surprised, junior b would have more cutting in it, but we need to move on quickly offaly have to get back in leinster by 2023 and looking at the best young hurlers around the county they 2023 team could be something like this. Have I forgot anyone?
M troy
R carty
J Quinn
Ó murphy
R ravinhill
B connelly
J screeny
C kiely
C kiely
B duignan
S dolan
K sampson
C Mitchell
Ó kelly
Ó Cahill
fair enough, I see one or two names in their that have been given a fair run at it now for the last number of years and have not delivered, Eoghan Cahill I would retain but if he is a midfielder I dont know what we are at..he is certainly not a mid fielder..Sampson on current form with club deserves a gig, Sean Dolan needs to opt in again (playing his best hurling ever for his club as far as I am concerned)...Damien Egan deserves to be involved for now, puts in a good shift in all games, leaves nothing behind him, Kelly in the forwards, now I am afraid its one thing being a star for Belmont, but I have yet to see it consistently at county level, one great game every now and then, and then zilch for a number of games in a row, some games I honestly thought he wasnt on the team...for his pedigree, he needs to deliver..lots of young stylish forwards on the panel to feed off of Sean Dolan if he returns...

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Fairplayalways » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:03 am

just to finish up...Kildare (whom we were expecting to beat only for the Covid intervention) beat Down today....Down beat us on penalties, but were a more structured team and played like a well drilled team than us, so they loose to Kildare, whom we were supposed to beat if we played them..where exactly the Kildare win over Down leaves Offaly is food for thought...Like before the Down game, I was wondering where all the confidence was in Offaly supposedly beating Kildare, they have been doing trojan work at under age level for the last number of years, and from their results in the league were not going to be terrified of Offaly, be it they didnt have to play after with Covid...

private joker
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by private joker » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:11 am

The main driver of kildare hurling now is the total dominance of Naas hurling in kildare. Think there are 12 players from Naas on the panel. Offaly needs Edenderry and tullamore to start producing hurlers. They are the large urban areas that need to be tapped into. I know that's not what the hurling people in South offaly want to hear. But these are the two largest populated areas thst are most likely to grow in the next 10 years. This is where some of the focus is needed. A full time GPO in Tullamore would be a start.

Keyser Soze
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Keyser Soze » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

I agree re Naaas, huge work has been done there. Watch this space, they will contest a Leinster Club final in the next 10 years in my opinion (long way to go).
But interestingly, and their rise hasn’t happened overnight, they didn’t win a championship between 2002 & 2019. There’s a decent spread in Kildare. Potential there to leave to Laois, Offaly, Carlow & Westmeath behind.
Watch this space.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Fairplayalways » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:51 am

I know a fellah involved with Choill Dubh, and from what I see there is massive work going on up there, they were in some final (probably Rackard or RIng) and he was making it home from his holidays to to go to Croke park with his kids...we have left those days behind I think...

Sur lookit
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Re: Offaly Hurling 2020

Post by Sur lookit » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:08 pm

Well, look on the brightside so lads, we wont have to face Kildare next year!

Look, time to regroup and there does need to be a look at the plan overall for Offaly hurling, but we seem to have steadied the ship a little at u20 level and the win over Laois in the minor was welcome.
I think that there is good work going on in Offaly, but as POTH says there needs to be a change in mindset from some of the young lads who are probably listening to there fathers when they go home telling them they should be bating it into the full forward line and let them fight for it etc...

There is no quick fix for hurling in Offaly as we have found out, but lets try to keep in perspective, Fennelly is learning the trade, JOhnny Kelly has pedigree as a coach. We will be hurling league at a higher level than C ring teams and we should get over the line if we play it during the summer straight after the league. Pure stats as was pointed out left us in theory the better team, but we has also to travel up, second week in a row, and a soggy pitch to go with it. Not making excuses, but facts are facts.

But for the man that named that Offaly team for 2023, and no Eoghan Cahill, ah now , come on?

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