Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Sharp Eye
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Sharp Eye »

Killeighman wrote:Wasn't at the game, could somebody post up the Offaly subs from Sunday's game?
Offaly Subs:
16 Oisin Mahon
17 Sean Cleary
18 Stephen Quirke
19 Joey O Connor
20 James Gorman
21 Ben Conneely
22 Dan Kelleher
23 Brendan Murphy
24 Brian Mulrooney
25 Adrian Cleary
26 Liam Langton

Sharp Eye
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Sharp Eye »

kaiserchief wrote:All roads lead to O'Connor park Sunday.

We talk about yesterday all we want but we are no where in the same standards as Clare. Realistically the games versus Clare and Limerick where all about putting in a performance and getting a win over Laois to raise confidence for Wexford games and pipping Kerry in last game for either 3rd or 4th place.
Clare and Limerick are going for Munster and All Irelands where as we are looking for solid league and learning more of our first 15 and to top round robin and hopefully compete with Galway in a quarter final.

I was in Ennis and there are good and bad points to take from it.

Dempsey was brilliant. Hands down one of the best in the country.
2 to 7 I was impressed with, solid first 25 mins from all. A few silly mistakes turn the game in the last 10 mins of second half. Especially letting Duggan come 45 metres with the ball for the goal. Camon put in an excellent shift scoring 3 from play and McDonald and Doughan where solid in the middle.
Midfield just didn't work on the day. Kinsella as the free man didnt work. His ball carrying and distribution was headless at times and hid tackle on Duggan was very soft. The idea of this role is the play good ball into the forwards and stop goals and neither happened. When he went midfield he was excellent. He is able to run at players and break the tackle and is more effective in that role.
Podge Guinan and Jason Sampson had a tough firts 25 mins and couldnt get into the game. They seemed to be lacking the fitness for midfield and both where out of steam after 30 mins. Joey O Connor made a big diffrenece in the second half.
Now to the part we can only improve on. Paddy Murphy was the only forward to stand up to the plate and had 2 excellent scores in the first half. Things didn't go right for Collie Egan and Bergin Dooley and Mullrooney couldnt get into the game. Playin 5 on 6 is always tough and poor ball in and things not going right just made things frustrating for everyone.

Sunday is so important to lay down a marker and get three points on the board


Recommended tean for laois:
Dempsey
Rigney
McDonald
Wynne
Camon
Kelliher
Mooney
Sean Ryan (Free Man)
Joey O Connor
Gardiner
Podge Guinan
Colin Egan
Dooley
Kinsella
Paddy Murphy

On Sunday next, Eamon Kelly must pick Two Players with experience of playing midfield. Padraig Guinan and Jason Sampson were not suited to the midfield role yesterday.

For the game against Laois, which we must win Offaly must play 6 forwards. Our forwards will not score much if there are 5 forwards on 7 backs with poor quality delivery from our defence. Remember it took Clare a long time to improve their passing and support play which enables them play the sweeper system.

Toxicity234
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Toxicity234 »

16 Oisin Mahon

What are you sure???
I was at the game I know the 16 was blank but Oisin Mahon. he isn't making the KK team yet.
Ben Conneely and Liam Langton are just out of minor as well. Way Way to young to be on the senior panel.
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sam88885a
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by sam88885a »

how has happened with d shortt , i thought he be full back

I wasnt at the game ,we played with S kinsella as a sweeper but from what i hear it was a complete failure because clare also played with a sweeper so our forward were starved of decent ball and we invited clare to attack from deep . im told but for poor shooting by clare and brilliant goalkeeping by J Demsey we would have taken a much bigger beating .
Is that a fair summery of the game ???
That same team would not beat laois next sunday , we know laois will play a sweeper
i like us to go with a team like this
J Demsey
N Wynne
D Shortt
P Rigney
P Camon
D Kelliher
S Gardner
j mulrooney
D Mooney
P Murphy
C Egan
S Kinsella
J Gorman
J Bergin
S Dooley
Dont worry about laois just go out and everyone win ther own ball and take the game to them and if we not good enough then the managment need to rethink things quickly .

allstar2010
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by allstar2010 »

Toxicity234 wrote:16 Oisin Mahon

What are you sure???
I was at the game I know the 16 was blank but Oisin Mahon. he isn't making the KK team yet.
Ben Conneely and Liam Langton are just out of minor as well. Way Way to young to be on the senior panel.

Is he the u21 keeper? Maybe he was drafted in for now. Where is Clancy (rynaghs) or O'Connor (kinnitty) they're both decent keepers?

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Wing Back
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Wing Back »

To be honest, I never expected a huge performance against Clare. Offaly started very brightly which was very encouraging. We fell apart in the last 10-15 mins of the 1st half and the scoreline probably wasn't a million miles off reflecting the Clare dominance as they squandered a lot of chances and looked dangerous in moving forward.

In truth ,the missed penalty could have put a different spin on the game but ultimately it would have flattered Offaly a lot. The Banner looked to be in 2nd gear for large parts of the 2nd half and could have nipped in for a goal at will. Clare should go on and win the division, and this will be Offaly's toughest test so it was no harm to get it out of the way first. We have 3 home games in 4 to come against opposition that will not be at the same level as Clare.

Shane Kinsella hurled better in the 2nd half, O'Connor worked hard also I thought. Dempsey again was outstanding as was Pat Camon. I hope we play 6 forwards against Laois as they are very weak at the back....as exposed by Kerry. They have lost 8 from last year which really showed yesterday in Portlaoise. I'm not in the loop with Laois but they are expecting Zane Keenan back now I hear as well as Willie Hyland at some point in the not to distant future. If they aren't there, Offaly really need to take the game to Laois as the Leix are even more inexperienced than us without these 2 key players. I would give Bergin another go and play him full forward where he will be able to take on the Laois Full back who from all accounts is poor. Possibly gain some confidence and be a weapon in later games. Get him to stay on the square and not to come outside the 21 so at least we have a big target in there. Play Dooley in the corner sniffing around breaks from Bergin and making himself available for quick ball from the half back line and midfield. Play Egan centre forward again.........and have runners from midfield running off him under the puck outs. Mulrooney has had his day and I would be more inclined to try Gorman to be honest. Guinan was quite, but he is young and will have learned a lot. I'd give him another go this weekend. Gardiner to wing back to replace Bergin from the start is the obvious move to my eye. Wynne looked shaky but he was on a very sharp Shane O'Donnell. After that I'd like to see Sean Cleary back in for Paddy Murphy also.

Aside from my own opinions I think Eamon Kelly is doing an OK job to be fair. There are plenty of things to work on, as was exposed by the Banner but there are positives and with a few tweaks and cutting out some simple errors we can make some hay later on this year. I fancy Laois to be pretty determined coming to Tullamore this weekend and I really hope that Offaly supporters can generate some atmosphere in OCP. I expect it to be tight. Offaly by 2.
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kaiserchief
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by kaiserchief »

Wing Back. whats game where you at cause Wynne was marking Conor McGrath for the 90% of the game until he went centre forward. He did an excellent job on him and had one of his better games. And why would you drop Paddy Murphy. He was the best forward last Sunday. I agree with Mullrooney and am astonished they made him vice captain.

sam88885a. McDonald was solid last week at full back. he was solid last week on Honan and Conlon!? I would like to see Gorman getting a chance. He had a good year last year for KK and was one of their better forwards.

And I dont think it matters who is the sub goalie. Dempsey is number 1 choice and unless his arms are fallen off he will always be for next number of years. Conor Slevin dropped off because he couldn't give the commitment required to be sitting on the bench all year. The ideal is to have the under 21 goalie in and give them some experience with Dempsey.

Anfearban
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Anfearban »

kaiserchief wrote:Wing Back. whats game where you at cause Wynne was marking Conor McGrath for the 90% of the game until he went centre forward. He did an excellent job on him and had one of his better games. And why would you drop Paddy Murphy. He was the best forward last Sunday. I agree with Mullrooney and am astonished they made him vice captain.

sam88885a. McDonald was solid last week at full back. he was solid last week on Honan and Conlon!? I would like to see Gorman getting a chance. He had a good year last year for KK and was one of their better forwards.

And I dont think it matters who is the sub goalie. Dempsey is number 1 choice and unless his arms are fallen off he will always be for next number of years. Conor Slevin dropped off because he couldn't give the commitment required to be sitting on the bench all year. The ideal is to have the under 21 goalie in and give them some experience with Dempsey.
I would agree with the above. In general I though 1 to 7 did well. The real problem was the forward play. Joe and Shane didn't get in the game and might be better off in different positions. Thought Paddy Murphy did well. Overall, while the game lacked intensity and Clare didn't pay very well, I thought Offaly looked to have improved since last year game.

kaiserchief
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by kaiserchief »

I agree Anfearban.

I think the 4 out of the 5 forwards couldnt get into the game. This is the system we will play against the stronger teams.

I would personally mix it up for the next day and play 6 forward putting Kinsella and Guinan in the half forward line alongside Egan. With Murphy Dooley and possible Bergin or Sean Cleary at full forward.

Toxicity234
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Toxicity234 »

The other Issue with the plan at the moment. Moving Kinsella to the sweeper is robbing one of better half forwards.
Egan tried hard on Sunday but was swamped. Egan, Kinsella, Murphy gives us a better balance half forward line than we had last week.
I would have no problem with Brendan Murphy getting a game or two in midfield. he older than the two young lads and is well used to playing midfield for Birr.
Sub goalkeeper been U21 goalkeeper and sitting on a bench watching a match is given his experience.
Sorry I'm not buying that. What the hell would it do to the young lad if Dempsey got injured in the 1st 5 mins and he has throwing in at the deep end and he makes a mistake. he hasn't make his senior club debut yet.
You develop player through the club 1st. when a player devolep's into a good club player then you bring him into the county panel.

The of idea that 3 lads just out of minor are making the senior panel worrying. Was our minor team so good last year.
We talk about Development plan throwing Minor into the Senior panel is a plan for trouble.
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Lone Shark
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Lone Shark »

Sharp Eye wrote: On Sunday next, Eamon Kelly must pick Two Players with experience of playing midfield. Padraig Guinan and Jason Sampson were not suited to the midfield role yesterday.

For the game against Laois, which we must win Offaly must play 6 forwards. Our forwards will not score much if there are 5 forwards on 7 backs with poor quality delivery from our defence. Remember it took Clare a long time to improve their passing and support play which enables them play the sweeper system.
If we're 5 on 7 at one end of the field, then Laois are 5 on 7 at the other. And as long as we win the game, I'd have no problem if it's by 1-13 to 0-13 or similar.

Similarly, as you point out, it took Clare time to get used to the system and it took Waterford lots of time as well. Laois also worked with it for a year or so before it started to show benefits - however in each of those three instances, the common trend was that all three teams improved, and punched above their weight once they adopted a system that suited the players at their disposal. Are we saying that Offaly is too good to do similar, or that the supporters are too impatient?

By the way I'm not claiming that this is the right tactic for this current Offaly panel, merely that we've given Eamon Kelly the job now so it's only right to let him implement whatever system he feels best.

Taking a step back now and looking at the bigger picture, nobody would go to a soccer game now and expect to see four forwards marking four backs, or to watch an NFL match and to regularly see a defence line out without at least one safety dropping off to help out his corner backs in the vast majority of plays. Every team sport evolves into a situation where attacking players are sacrificed to help out the defence, and hurling will be no different. Six on six at each end of the field will be a nostalgic throwback on the rare occasions it's seen from 2020 onwards I suspect.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Toxicity234
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Toxicity234 »

Lone Shark wrote: Taking a step back now and looking at the bigger picture, nobody would go to a soccer game now and expect to see four forwards marking four backs, or to watch an NFL match and to regularly see a defence line out without at least one safety dropping off to help out his corner backs in the vast majority of plays. Every team sport evolves into a situation where attacking players are sacrificed to help out the defence, and hurling will be no different. Six on six at each end of the field will be a nostalgic throwback on the rare occasions it's seen from 2020 onwards I suspect.
But Lone Shark.
Look at leicester city this year. Over the last 10 years we watch team after team trying to play possession football.
Manager after Manager
leicester city this year look at it squad said we two slow centre half but loads of pace in midfield and attack were going to counter attack. Leicester possession in game this year is less than 45% but there still winning game. why?
Cause there playing to there strength.
There a lot of managers that are chancer. Use the bussword, sound good but haven't got an original idea, they pick the tactics that is in fashion.
Sweeper are in Fashion in hurling at the moment . Why cause Clare won a All Ireland. Kilkenny Sweeper system is the one to look at.

I like the sweeper system when were playing against a strong wind. kill the game and don't let the other team score but using a sweeper with a strong wind when were have big strong, good in the air forward I don't get.
Last edited by Toxicity234 on Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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frankthetank
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by frankthetank »

Having attended the game Sunday I have to say there was a couple of positives to take from it.

Our two corner backs were excellent. We really have two top class performers in Niall Wynne and Paddy Rigney. Although it seems Rigney is practically in with the panel by default as he was dropped and brought back after Emmet Nolan made himself unavailable. For those clambering for a particular Kilcormac/Killoughey wing back to be on the team / panel you only need to compare the defensive capabilities of our two current corner backs and him to be shown the ridiculousness of your argument. To the best of my knowledge they held both Shane O'Donnell and Conor McGrath scoreless from play. O'Donnell got his point after the sending off of Rigney. It seemed to me that O'Donnell actually grabbed Rigney's arm and hauled himself to the ground. Anyways it had no direct effect on the result. Chris McDonald also was good although he made a couple of basic errors. In fairness to the backs they might aswell be pucking it against a wall as hitting it to our forward line.

That said forward line needs to have a serious look at itself in the mirror. We'll never fault anyone if they give it their all but some of our forwards simply didn't want to know. To see the Clare wing back saunter up the field unopposed to pop a point over the bar while the Offaly wing-forward fixed his socks was particularly galling.

This is going to be another long year I feel and its time to cut adrift some of the guys who simply haven't performed over the last number of years.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by Bord na Mona man »

You can choose to use a sweeper system or go conventional. But if the opposition are using a sweeper you need to be changing your approach anyway, like it or not. You'll have a spare man that you need to make good use of and you'll have an area of the field to try and bypass.

Offaly's style has been to deliver the ball into the forwards with the emphasis on delivery speed but at the expense of accuracy. So in a traditional 6 vs. 6 scenario, Offaly hope to win a percentage of (nominally) 50-50 ball and see what happens after that. The problem is that when faced with a sweeper, Offaly still play the same style. So all too often Offaly deliveries are blindly hit with no consideration of where the sweeper is, too often ending up going to an area of the field under his influence.

Obviously, if you go sweeper vs. sweeper yourself, potentially meaning 5 vs. 7 the attacking play needs to be even more considered. To develop the ability to play under this scenario takes time to develop.
Bottom line is, even if you don't want to go down the sweeper route and you think it's all a gimmick, you still need to developing more intelligent team interplay to counteract an opposition sweeper system.

sam88885a
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Re: Allianz Hurling League Roinn 1B 2016

Post by sam88885a »

Bord na Mona man i agree there is notting wrong with the sweeper system but when your playing a quality team like clare you cannot afford to give easy ball anywhere on the field because they will punish u.
When u play with 7 defenders on 5 forwards ur defenders are going to look ok but its very hard to expect our forwards to create many chances so we need experence around midfield to manage the game whether to hold the ball or go long .
young j samon and young guinan havent been tested at top club level yet so i think both need time to develop .
.

one concern i have from last sunday is we brought c egan back to centre back when c doughan was sent off insead of bring d kelliher on to see how he cope . c egan is vital to our forward line , he is our main ball winner .

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