Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Plain of the Herbs
All Star
Posts: 3494
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:47 pm
Club: Lusmagh

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Durra, I took it Jimbob meant U16, U15, U14 etc. when he wrote "below Minor level".
jimbob17 wrote:. . the set ups below minor level are worse than they ever were from what ive heard from a good friend who has a son involved.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Plain of the Herbs
All Star
Posts: 3494
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:47 pm
Club: Lusmagh

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Picture the scene. The 2018 Christy Ring Cup semi-final. Offaly prepare to take on Kildare in Naas or Newbridge or somewhere.

Offaly Manager Johnny Pilkington tells his team "ye are natural hurlers, they are manufactured hurlers or converted footballers... just go out and do it'".

Selector Paudge Mulhare warns them "if ye don't beat Kildare I'll puke all over the whole lot of ye".

Kildare win by eight points. Offaly give Kildare a guard of honour off the pitch.
llkj wrote:I remember the advice the week of a Championship match against Dublin was that 'we are natural hurlers, they are manufactured hurlers or converted footballers... just go out and do it'... as the Dubs bet us by about 10 points I was wishing I was a manufactured hurler too.
After we are knocked out there would be no communication until 6 months later and the next notice for a trial came along
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
Posts: 4022
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am
Club: Clara

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by Bord na Mona man »

2018 - Never mind how teams are performing on the field, we'll be having a 20 year re-union do for the 1998 All Ireland team.
Plain of the Herbs wrote:Picture the scene. The 2018 Christy Ring Cup semi-final. Offaly prepare to take on Kildare in Naas or Newbridge or somewhere.

Offaly Manager Johnny Pilkington tells his team "ye are natural hurlers, they are manufactured hurlers or converted footballers... just go out and do it'".

Selector Paudge Mulhare warns them "if ye don't beat Kildare I'll puke all over the whole lot of ye".

Kildare win by eight points. Offaly give Kildare a guard of honour off the pitch.
llkj wrote:I remember the advice the week of a Championship match against Dublin was that 'we are natural hurlers, they are manufactured hurlers or converted footballers... just go out and do it'... as the Dubs bet us by about 10 points I was wishing I was a manufactured hurler too.
After we are knocked out there would be no communication until 6 months later and the next notice for a trial came along

durra1
All Star
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:10 pm
Club: Durrow/Ballinamere
Location: BAC

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by durra1 »

Apologies to Johnny Leahy for that misread-I take it all back. That’s what you get for mixing UFDC with work.

Shane Lowry may have bagged a British Open by 2018 and we'll trumpet how he comes from a famous Offaly GAA family.

User avatar
joe bloggs
All Star
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:07 pm
Location: canal side

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by joe bloggs »

Some green shoots today in banagher
I was in for the first game in a leinster U 16 blitz where our lads beat Galway in the first game.
I couldn't stay for the later games but it looked like we had a few nice hurlers and credit to John Leahy he was encouraging the lads to try and use the ball rather than just belt it for the sake of it
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

private joker
All Star
Posts: 1080
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:09 pm

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by private joker »

Just reading all the posts and I cant believe some of the stories, in regards to the way ye conduct trials im amazed that ye are as competitive as ye are.
To be successful, you have to first organised, have every detail covered. I will give an example of an u-13 Dublin ''trial''.

About 45 players turn up from the south region, the other been north now Dublin is spilt in two at under age.
When they arrive they are directed their dressing room with their name and team colour.
They then get a chat from their assigned managers who tell them what is expected from them and how they should play.
They do about 25-30 warm up, then play a match.
Team mates are kept apart, where possible, and as the games are played the teams are coached on how the should play as well as the fundamentals of the game.
At the end, they are spoken to by the head manager/coach who says well done and whats expected of them.
Handouts/emails are given to players on what work on when with their clubs and what they should eat/not eat to be a county player. The next session is a training session with no matches and this will prob happen for 2/3 weeks just to work on the lads to help them relax and play better in the matches. then theres another game and lads not up to it are let go but get advice on how to improve.

Squad is in around 35 and they will train away playing in blitzes and the like. The skills are taught but they are told to work on the stuff like left side right side on their own, teamplay, defending puckouts, where to stand contesting a high ball, breaking the tackle and hooking and blocking are really worked on.

This does not exactly happen with all squads but would be very close. Your minor team will be a reflection on what work is been done with them from U13 up.
SIDENOTE: Zero ground hurling is done, I dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

old yellar
All Star
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by old yellar »

Its great to read the posts and see the different opinions on development in each county. I ll give you the carlow one now! Firstly we wouldnt have the need for a trial for the u13 to 16 squads as numbers arent there. We find it hard to fill a 24/28 man squad as you are kept to the age with the squads. We train once a week and try get a game every few weeks. U13s are a little less formal and irregular in what the do. This yr we cant get an u16 panel together due to lack of interest - 7/8 is the number who ve turned upto train. So it aint all fun and games here either!! Having been involved in offaly gaa, i cant get over the near surprise by one contributor here about john leahy and his style of play. He is v progressive in his thinking and well respected outside the county amongst his fellow county coaches. Your county board at one stage had him dragging ice baths to footballers at one stage a few yrs ago rather than allowing him get on with his own job. Also, your county panels are only as good as the coaching the get at club level. The county squads at u13 to 16 are loose and informal so the main coaching that players get is from their clubs and schools. A few sessions in with the county squad wont fix bad coaching. You ll find, as happens down here, you end up having to do basic hurling skills rather than game plans, movement etc as lads dont have these coming in. A sad reality! My own club has 3 tremendous young lads from 16 to 20, but all cack handers. Never corrected and limits their intercounty chances. We all need to look at our own clubs first i feel.

User avatar
joe bloggs
All Star
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:07 pm
Location: canal side

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by joe bloggs »

private joker wrote:Just reading all the posts and I cant believe some of the stories, in regards to the way ye conduct trials im amazed that ye are as competitive as ye are.
To be successful, you have to first organised, have every detail covered. I will give an example of an u-13 Dublin ''trial''.

About 45 players turn up from the south region, the other been north now Dublin is spilt in two at under age.
When they arrive they are directed their dressing room with their name and team colour.
They then get a chat from their assigned managers who tell them what is expected from them and how they should play.
They do about 25-30 warm up, then play a match.
Team mates are kept apart, where possible, and as the games are played the teams are coached on how the should play as well as the fundamentals of the game.
At the end, they are spoken to by the head manager/coach who says well done and whats expected of them.
Handouts/emails are given to players on what work on when with their clubs and what they should eat/not eat to be a county player. The next session is a training session with no matches and this will prob happen for 2/3 weeks just to work on the lads to help them relax and play better in the matches. then theres another game and lads not up to it are let go but get advice on how to improve.

Squad is in around 35 and they will train away playing in blitzes and the like. The skills are taught but they are told to work on the stuff like left side right side on their own, teamplay, defending puckouts, where to stand contesting a high ball, breaking the tackle and hooking and blocking are really worked on.

This does not exactly happen with all squads but would be very close. Your minor team will be a reflection on what work is been done with them from U13 up.
SIDENOTE: Zero ground hurling is done, I dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing.
Just out of interest, are the coaches volunteers doing it in their spare time, or are they full time paid coaches.
In offaly we have one full time coach who is very good when he gets the chance to work with players, but we could do with having a few more lads in a similar role. However finance dictates that we do t have the resources to employ anyone else
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

private joker
All Star
Posts: 1080
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:09 pm

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by private joker »

All squads mentors are volunteers who are managers of their local clubs, or people who have been tapped up to do the the job. A lot of primary and secondary school teachers, current county players and ex county players. Any who is doing a squad is doing it in their spare time. The hurling director is paid to put all of this in place.

jimbob17
All Star
Posts: 914
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by jimbob17 »

A lot of the time in Offaly, there are not enough progressive people put in charge of teams at county level. In John Leahy, Offaly possess one of the most progressive coaches in the country let alone the county. The problem is, there is only one of him. To my knowledge, John tends to look after hurling while Alan Mulhall looks after the football but i may be wrong on this. Overall however, That is 2 paid people.

I know clubs in dublin that would have 3 paid coaches. Westmeath to my knowledge have 5 people working as GPO's in the county while Kildare have even more again. These jobs are partly funded by the county board and partly by Leinster GAA. Therefore the lack of people working in such a capacity comes back to one thing, that is, lack of will on the part of the county board to spend money on progressive people to work in coaching. This is against a backdrop of Offaly having one of the biggest intake of finances since O Connor Park was built with numerous championship games and qualifiers being played there.

With regard to hurling and development, there are other people involved too. That is the director of Hurling and coaching officers (representatives of the county board) and these people would have strong influence on what is going on with regards to hurling development in the county within county squads at least. The problem to my mind is that they are well short on progressive thinking hurling people on the ground and are often slow to approach good people who might be willing as they may have to relinquish the power that is often craved by county board members, often to the detriment of the overall development of our young hurlers.
jimbob

old yellar
All Star
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by old yellar »

Has carina left the coaching set up?

User avatar
joe bloggs
All Star
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:07 pm
Location: canal side

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by joe bloggs »

old yellar wrote:Has carina left the coaching set up?
I think she went on maternity leave and wasn't replaced. No sign of her back yet
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

Ahlethimoutwithit
All Star
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by Ahlethimoutwithit »

Clubs need to look at their own structures, whilst huge sums are still being forked out for coaches of adult club teams, they allow anyone thats willing to give the time to take charge of their underage setup, without ensuring that they get the correct training and are suitable for the job.

User avatar
joe bloggs
All Star
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:07 pm
Location: canal side

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by joe bloggs »

I am afraid it is often a case of beggars can't be choosers as many clubs find it difficult to get enough people to take teams.
What I would say though is that clubs should try to get their best coaches involved with their youngest teams so as to not allow bad habits to develop
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

Ahlethimoutwithit
All Star
Posts: 764
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: Revolution not reform needed in underage hurling

Post by Ahlethimoutwithit »

No Joe, people should be approached in the proper manner, map out the actual time involved in coaching underage, (the time involved is not huge).

U8s ,10s and 12s, with the right system and back up will only take up 4hrs per week, hardly that much for someone with ability to make a difference???

1)Approach the right people, (people who could coach properly)
2)Give them admin back up so that they are not doing it all themselves and it frees up their time to focus on coaching and the players
3)Ask them who they would like to work with and help them to get these people on board, get people in who will help (and not stand back looking at the coach with their arms folded chatting about the price of sheep, or oogling over a yummy mummy from Dublin who just moved into the area!!)
4) Dont just leave them alone, support them, and thank them for their efforts, maybe give u14, 16, minor coaches ticket to county final, or put their names in the hat for All Ireland tickets

Have a plan for what you want for each team/ numbers playing/number of sesssions/ and have all the gear that the coach needs to carry out his job right at the start of the season.
These approaches need to be made during October/November, and lets make no bones about it, this next 5 to 10 years will determine whether we can get back to some level of competitiveness, or we end up as a GAA backwater for good.
Lay it on the line for some of these guys who are standing back, they need to get involved.

Post Reply