Club Hurling championship

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SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:54 pm

llkj wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:50 am
I spent 20 mins looking at this year's adult hurling championship in Offaly as I am always curious about participation levels in the sport.

Here is the summary.
  • There are 21 hurling clubs with 45 teams across all divisions in total (I am not counting Clareen's 3rd team as they didn't fulfill any fixtures).
    • KK have 4 teams entered in Senior, Senior B, Junior, Junior B. This is the most per any one club.
    • 6 clubs entered just 1 team. Mainly these are junior and junior B clubs, with Clara operating at Senior B being the highest ranking of the mono team clubs - their goal should be a second team at Junior B level asap. ​
    • The 10 senior clubs entered 28 of the teams .Of those clubs, the second teams operate at at Senior B or Intermediate level, apart from balinamere (Junior) and Drumcullen - whose 2nd team operate at Junior B level, which is a huge gap - especially when trying to arrange a 15 v 15 game at training. For instance Drumcullen's 2nd team would be competing against Kks fourth team.
    • Rynaghs, CoolDerry, Birr, Belmont, Shnirone, Ballinamere, Tullamore - all have 3 teams that played champtonship this year.
    • Clodagh Gaels, kinnitty, Drumcullen, Clareen, Lusmagh, Carrig, Shamrocks, - all have 2 teams playing championship.
Couple of Interesting points:

Of the recently amalgamated clubs Clodagh Gaels now only have 2 teams. Considering that Raheen, Killeigh, Killurin all used to at least have 1 team each, it is disappointing, as they playing numbers should be there.
BallyS / Killavilla only having one team is probably due to a lower numbers base there, but still a huge fallback from 15 years ago when both clubs were senior in their own right.

Great to see Edenderry and Gracefield with teams. Would love to see more clubs make an attempt to get a team going again - Daingean parish, Rhode parish.

I am not sure if 45 teams is about average or not. I would love to compare it to 10, 20, 30 years ago to see how it stacks up, but I wouldn't know where to get such data without having access to old programs.
Just a comment on the Clodiagh Gaels situation. Killeigh parish traditionally had a football side, based on the Geashill and Cloneygowan areas, with Ballinagar playing in the JFC.
Players from all sides could play SF with the parish team, and continue playing junior football, with their local club. This no longer applies.

The Killeigh and Killurin side of the parish, were known as the hurling side, but also played in the junior football championship. They played as Killeigh, and occasionally one or two players from the football area, were included. In 1985, Killurin affiliated as a separate team, they were promoted to Intermediate at one stage, while Killeigh eventually dropped back to junior hurling, Raheen entered a team in the JHC at one stage. That meant 3 hurling teams in the parish.

That situation helped nobody, but when Na Fianna at underage won a MInor A hurling title in 2015, moves began to form one parish team, and as the continuing availability of players was becoming an issue, Clodiagh Gaels began life in 2016 as the combined hurling team drawing from all parts, including Raheen. Contacts had been made over time prior to the successful amalgamation, but came to nothing until the decision to unite as one team in 2016.
I strongly believe that having Clodiagh Gaels as a parish team is far better than reverting to the fragmented situation which applied up to 2016. Other parishes in Offaly have a number of local clubs, but no single parish team.
Sorry for going on at length, but it was important to sketch the background.

llkj
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by llkj » Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:51 pm

Curious from a participation point of view how amalgamation impacts overall playing numbers. I get that it will Improve the quality of the first team, and give more chance of winning. As the years roll on, I wonder how a lad that might be a starter on the football team with Raheen and would have been a been on the raheen hurling team too would be as bothered about making himself available to represent CG 3rd team. Or similar with the lad that was number 22 in killurin - is he still playing or has he packed it in. Definitely a difference committing to the first team in a club versus the 3rd team - some may love that they would potentially get more game time, some may hate that they are so far back in the pecking order and not even getting to make up a 15v15 game In training that the walk away.

Not making any comment about the rights and wrong of amalgamation- just curious overall.

llkj
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by llkj » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:37 pm

While looking at the different competitions/groups last night it is startling how much Kilcormac are dominating every age group from u20 to u13. They are dishing out absolute hammerings across the board. Any insights as to what they are doing that others are not?

backofthenet
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by backofthenet » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:10 pm

llkj wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:51 pm
Curious from a participation point of view how amalgamation impacts overall playing numbers. I get that it will Improve the quality of the first team, and give more chance of winning. As the years roll on, I wonder how a lad that might be a starter on the football team with Raheen and would have been a been on the raheen hurling team too would be as bothered about making himself available to represent CG 3rd team. Or similar with the lad that was number 22 in killurin - is he still playing or has he packed it in. Definitely a difference committing to the first team in a club versus the 3rd team - some may love that they would potentially get more game time, some may hate that they are so far back in the pecking order and not even getting to make up a 15v15 game In training that the walk away.

Not making any comment about the rights and wrong of amalgamation- just curious overall.
I would suggest that players may not make it to senior grade at all, if you are not playing at underage you are unlikely to continue participating in the sport to adult grade.

Just my opinion and not criticizing any club for going this road but I think long term ammalgamation of clubs generally will hurt all involved as the player pool drys up and younger players drift away to other sports. I know there are some circumstances where clubs simply dont have the numbers, but any team at all is better than half a team coming through to senior grade.

Also there is tremendous work that has to go into running each team, sometimes it just isnt possible to support all the teams with the people you have available

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:54 pm

I got you a couple here, from 2006 and 1994

Club hurling gradings from 2006 (15 years ago)
Senior (15): Coolderry, Birr, Shinrone, Kinnitty, Belmont, Ballyskenagh, Kilcormac-KIlloughey, Lusmagh, Drumcullen, St Rynagh’s, Killavilla, Seir Kieran, Shamrocks, Clara, Tullamore.

Intermediate (11): St Rynagh’s, Coolderry, Carrig & Riverstown, Drumcullen, Shnrone, Birr, Crinkill, Ballinamere, Kinnitty, Killeigh, Kilcormac-Killoughey.

Junior A (12): Tullamore, St Rynagh’s, Brosna Gaels, Gracefield, Birr, Shamrocks, Kilcormac-Killoughey, Seir Kieran, Rhode, Coolderry, Killurin, Edenderry.

Junior B (11): Clara, Killeigh, Gracefield, Raheen, Ballinamere, Belmont, Lusmagh, Ballyskenagh, Killavilla, Crinkill, Kinnitty.


Club hurling gradings from 1994
Senior (11): Birr, St Rynagh’s, Tullamore, Coolderry, Ferbane, Drumcullen, Kilcormac-Killoughey, Seir Kieran, Shinrone, Kinnitty, Lusmagh.

Intermediate (11): St Rynagh’s, Killavilla, Killeigh-Raheen, Ballinamere, Coolderry, St Carthage’s-Mucklagh, Gracefield, Belmont, Kilcormac-Killoughey, Birr, Kinnitty.

Junior A (14): Drumcullen, Daingean, Coolderry, St Carthage’s-Mucklagh, Edenderry, Lusmagh, St Rynagh’s, Erin Rovers, Shinrone, Clara, Birr, Carrig & Riverstown, Ballyskenagh, Tullamore.

Junior B (11): St Carthage’s-Mucklagh, Ferbane, Kinnitty, Killurin, Drumcullen, Ballinamere, Seir Kieran, Belmont, Killeigh-Raheen, Tubber, Kilcormac-Killoughey.

Junior C (6): Carrig & Riverstown, Crinkill, St Carthage’s-Mucklagh, Gracefield, St Brigid’s, Killavilla.
llkj wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:50 am
I am not sure if 45 teams is about average or not. I would love to compare it to 10, 20, 30 years ago to see how it stacks up, but I wouldn't know where to get such data without having access to old programs.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Toxicity234
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Toxicity234 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:27 pm

Toxicity234 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:33 am
I robbed this of Twitter a few mins ago.

next round is
KK VS Rynagh
Birr vs Shinrone
Kinnitty vs Belmont
Ballinamere vs Seir Kieran
Coolderry vs Drumcullen

Table is at the bottom:


Shinrone, Belmont Ballinamere need to win to stay in the hunt for QF but not impossible if they lose.
Kieran and Drumcullen are facing Misson impossible.


On Paper KK (6) Vs Rynagh(6) is the Tie of the round but in the real world, a loss wouldn't mean a huge amount.

KK has played SK, Belmont, and Shinrone
Outstanding: Belmont, Ballinamere, Kinnitty, Coolderry, and Birr.

Rynagh has played Kinnitty, Ballinamere, Coolderry.
Rynagh's have to play: Birr, Shirone, Belmont, Drumcullen, and SK.

Whoever wins this may well top the group



Birr(4) Vs Shinrone(2), If Birr wins it is very hard for Shinrone to make the QF. should be a good one.

Birr has played: Drumcullen, SK, and Belmont.
Outstanding: KK, Rynagh, Coolderry, Kinnitty, and Ballinamere.

Shirone has played: KK, Coolderry, and Ballinamere
Outstanding: Rynagh, Kinnitty, Belmont, Drumcullen, and SK.


Kinnity(4) vs Belmont(2), In my mind this is the tie of the round. Oisin Kelly has been the difference between them over the last number of years.
This could be a very close game.
(wishing Oisin a speedy recovery from his injury)

Kinnitty Played: Ryanghs, Drumcullen, and SK.
Outstanding: KK, Birr, Coolderry, Shirone, Ballinamere.

Belmont Played: KK, Coolderry, and Shinrone.
Outstanding: Ryanagh, Birr, Ballinamere, Drumcullen, and SK.

Ballinamere(2) vs Seir Kieran(0), Both teams will think they can win this. If Ballinamere wins they thinking that 4 points at the halfway stage would be a good return.

Ballinamere played: Rynaghs, Shinrone, and Drumcullen
Outstanding. KK, Birr, Coolderry, Kinnitty, Belmont

SK Played: KK, Birr, and Kinnitty.
outstanding: Rynaghs, Coolderry, Shinrone, Belmont, Drumcullen.

Coolderry(4) vs Drumcullen (0), Drumcullen has been competitive in the games so far but you would expect Coolderry to have a little too much for Us.

Coolderry played: Rynaghs, Shinrone, Belmont.
outstanding: KK, Birr, Kinnitty, Ballinamere, and SK.

Drumcullen Played: Birr, Ballinamere and Birr.
outstanding: KK, Rynaghs, Shinrone, Belmont, SK


The Group is taking Shape.
There are 12 points left for each team to play for.

KK and Ryanghs will more than likely 1 and 2.
Coolderry is my favorite for the 3 spot. They believe that they can get to 12 to 14 points, That 3 or 4 wins from 6 games. having already beating Shinrone and Belmont.

Kinnity and Birr on 4 points look good on paper but they both beating SK and Drumcullen to get that 4 points. The games this weekend for both of these are massive.
Shinrone, Ballinamere, and Belmont have a bit of work ahead of them. All on 2 points. Belmont with 2 points against Birr was huge.
I think from this group of 5 with Belmont miss Oisin Kelly. Shinrone may get the 4 places. Only cause 3 teams could end up on 10 points and they have the better scoring average.

SK and Drumcullen. with no points look bad, But on the plus side, Drumcullen have been very competitive.
SK will be disappointed with there results so far but Vs Ballinamere is real make-or-break for this team this year.
I got that wrong.

Sorry about that.
“Common sense is not so common.”

greenairfield
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by greenairfield » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:27 am

predictions and outcomes for the weekend ?

frankthetank
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by frankthetank » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:52 am

St Rynaghs to beat Birr

Coolderry to beat Clareen comfortably

Shinrone to beat Kinnitty comprehensively

K/K to demolish Drumcullen. 20 plus points

Ballinamere to beat Belmont. Ballinamere have better forwards currently than Belmont.

Semi finals:
St Rynaghs vs Shinrone
Coolderry vs Kilcormac/Killoughey

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:40 pm

frankthetank wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:52 am
St Rynaghs to beat Birr

Coolderry to beat Clareen comfortably

Shinrone to beat Kinnitty comprehensively

K/K to demolish Drumcullen. 20 plus points

Ballinamere to beat Belmont. Ballinamere have better forwards currently than Belmont.

Semi finals:
St Rynaghs vs Shinrone
Coolderry vs Kilcormac/Killoughey
[

Agree with above. The only possible change is where Kinnitty beat Shinrone.

allstar2010
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by allstar2010 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:57 pm

Agree also with frankthetank.
I’d go with Rynaghs v Coolderry final

Fairplayalways
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Fairplayalways » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:41 pm

very hard to go against the majority of predictions above,

Rynaghs even with maybe 1 or 2 rested I think will beat Birr, if they go full throttle they will definitely win I would think -Rynaaghs by 6

Belmont V Ballinamere - Ballinamere should win this as I think they have a few more forwards to score. That said Belmont will not be found wanting and could pull off this. Ballinamere to win I think by about 4 points (or a draw?)

Shinrone V Kinnity - Shinrone should win this and if they hurl to ability can win, it will be big set back for them if they dont. But they are coming good at the right time for this game at least. Kinnity will be hard to beat like Belmont are, but Shinrone should get over the line here and qualify.

Kilcormac K V Drumcullen - hard to see any other result here other than KK, the hammering Coolderry gave Drumcullen will not help Drumcullen hurling one bit, great to see them at Senior A and while someone has to go down it looks like they will be the ones. KK to win by 10 plus here.

Coolderry V Seir Kieran - this will be a better game than many think, Clareen will not fear Coolderry one bit and will give this their all, they have a few nice hurlers and will definitely put it up to Coolderry who given the over all age of their squad are doing very well and doing what is required of them. Brian Carroll having a super championship and he will be the difference here at the end of the day...Coolderry by 7 or 8 I think or even less, cannot see it been a landslide.

The above predictions give Shinrone the final spot in last 4, but I wont be surprised if some team pull off a result to the expected results..good luck to all teams and it has been a great championship in these difficult times over all.

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:14 pm

Fairplayalways wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:41 pm
very hard to go against the majority of predictions above,

Rynaghs even with maybe 1 or 2 rested I think will beat Birr, if they go full throttle they will definitely win I would think -Rynaaghs by 6

Belmont V Ballinamere - Ballinamere should win this as I think they have a few more forwards to score. That said Belmont will not be found wanting and could pull off this. Ballinamere to win I think by about 4 points (or a draw?)

Shinrone V Kinnity - Shinrone should win this and if they hurl to ability can win, it will be big set back for them if they dont. But they are coming good at the right time for this game at least. Kinnity will be hard to beat like Belmont are, but Shinrone should get over the line here and qualify.

Kilcormac K V Drumcullen - hard to see any other result here other than KK, the hammering Coolderry gave Drumcullen will not help Drumcullen hurling one bit, great to see them at Senior A and while someone has to go down it looks like they will be the ones. KK to win by 10 plus here.

Coolderry V Seir Kieran - this will be a better game than many think, Clareen will not fear Coolderry one bit and will give this their all, they have a few nice hurlers and will definitely put it up to Coolderry who given the over all age of their squad are doing very well and doing what is required of them. Brian Carroll having a super championship and he will be the difference here at the end of the day...Coolderry by 7 or 8 I think or even less, cannot see it been a landslide.

The above predictions give Shinrone the final spot in last 4, but I wont be surprised if some team pull off a result to the expected results..good luck to all teams and it has been a great championship in these difficult times over all.

Semi-finalists.
Coolderry
Kilcormac/Killoughey
St. Rynagh’s
Shinrone.

jimbob17
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by jimbob17 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:30 pm

It was an unreal finish to league. Birr must be really sick with not getting through. They'd have been fairly confident a 13 pt win v Rynaghs would have got them through. Shinrone's annihilation of Kinnity was a real surprise for me. While i'd probably have tipped Shinrone to win, I couldnt have foreseen the level of the beating, given that Kinnity were also there with a slight chance of qualification if they won. Getting the 20 pt win will give them good confidence going into semi final - albeit against a Coolderry outfit that will be strong favourites to win.

Just out of interest, when was the last time Shinrone made a co senior semi final?

Looking forward, I'd fancy Rynaghs to recover from bad defeat and edge KK and Coolderry to beat Shinrone comfortably enough in the semi finals.
jimbob

greenairfield
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by greenairfield » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:55 am

sick would be an understatement...what do you say to that it's hard. If Birr went 15 on 15 v Belmont they win by 10 points every day they got it so wrong that day and it's coming back to bite them.

I think Shinrone are the dark horses, Banagher had a full team v Birr but they had no answer to their performance I think it will be Shinrone v Banagher final.

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:09 am

jimbob17 wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:30 pm
It was an unreal finish to league. Birr must be really sick with not getting through. They'd have been fairly confident a 13 pt win v Rynaghs would have got them through. Shinrone's annihilation of Kinnity was a real surprise for me. While i'd probably have tipped Shinrone to win, I couldnt have foreseen the level of the beating, given that Kinnity were also there with a slight chance of qualification if they won. Getting the 20 pt win will give them good confidence going into semi final - albeit against a Coolderry outfit that will be strong favourites to win.

Just out of interest, when was the last time Shinrone made a co senior semi final?

Looking forward, I'd fancy Rynaghs to recover from bad defeat and edge KK and Coolderry to beat Shinrone comfortably enough in the semi finals.
Not sure about Shinrone and semi finals. I think Rynagh’s will make the final, Shinrone have to overcome an experienced Coolderry to reach the final. Coolderry will be favourites, but if Shinrone don’t let the day get to them, they have a great chance.

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