Club Hurling championship

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Plain of the Herbs
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Coolderry 1-18 Shinrone 0-19

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:30 pm

I went to see Coolderry v Shinrone on Sunday evening. A cracking game of hurling, played at a serious pace from start to finish, not at all what we are used to. A proper match.

Shinrone played some serious hurling in the first quarter. Brilliant ball handling, line breaks, at pace, winning ball in the air, everything you want. Joe Cleary, Dan Doughan excellent, Adrian Cleary doing well, Conor Doughan leading, Peter Cleary’s pace causing problems, Gives the impression their training must be something else.

Coolderry were good too. Shinrone played an orthodox 3-3-2-3-3, Coolderry played a triangular full-forward line with two inside, something that suits Kevin Connolly. Coolderry got organised during the first water break, and from then on, they outnumbered Shinrone on the reds’ puckouts. Denied possession, Shinrone couldn’t get their game going. Eoin Ryan scored a fine goal, taking a pass at full speed and firing it low and hard.

Coolderry stayed in front throuout the second half as Shinron floundered. There’s a real freshness about Coolderry, something they seem to do every three years now. Barry Teehan doesn’t look 39, nominally at centre half-forward, Brian Carroll covered ground and tried to bring Dan Doughan away from the centre with him. The half-forward line is better than their 2018 equivalants. And I think Martin Bennett is back doing their s&c.

Kevin Brady came on at centre half-forward, something that further upset Shinrone. Conor Molloy got up from his half-back position to take a pass and score from 45 metres. I admit I haven’t heard of Coolderry manager Brian Culbert before, but their defence was well organised and they seemed to be well prepared to cope with Shinrone’s game.

Coolderry have Rynagh’s next, then Drumcullen and Seir Kieran. The greens have momentum, and with Rynagh’s and Kilcormac having their hands full with Ballinamere and Belmont respectively, I wonder is an element of county final fatigue building up? It’s okay for the eight clubs who didn’t reach the final, their campaigns could build momentum, but Rynagh’s and Kilcormac had to peak four weeks ago, then ease before building again.

It’s not impossible for Shinrone to get a win over Kilcormac. They are capable of some scintillating hurling, but they can’t continue to lose their way when they meet their match. That’ll be Trevor Fletcher’s biggest challenge.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Fairplayalways » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:25 pm

whether KK conceded all these frees is a separate issue, the point is Belmont did not score from play which is fairly astonishing for a team tipping around county semi finals for the last few years. Well known intercounty stars often sored 15 or 16 points in from frees and in intercounty games and they are hailed as having a MOM performance, no one says the other team were indisciplined in particular in hurling, you do hear of it in football ok a fair bit, the issue of indiscipline of course is the issue for the conceding team, but as I say, Belmont not scoring from play is the point I rose, not the indiscipline or other of Kilcormac, its an unusual one in Offaly hurling. My informants as you call them didnt know of the stat and they at the game.

frankthetank
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by frankthetank » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:31 pm

After 2 rounds of games it seems to me that 4 wins are going to be needed to make the top 4 to make the semi-finals. K/K and St Rynaghs are going to reach that number (if not 5) so that's 2 spots gone. With Coolderry beating Shinrone at the weekend and with games against Drumcullen and Clareen to come you have to think they'll at least make it to 4 wins aswell. Which leaves Birr, Shinrone and Kinnitty as the only other teams who can make 4 wins.

Birr would look the favourites for the fourth spot although they have their 3 toughest games to come with Belmont, Shinrone and St Rynaghs.

However Shinrone are also in the mix for that spot and their game against Birr could be vitally important but Shinrone will have to overcome K/K in Round 3 to make it relevant and I just think they don't have enough in the tank to do this.

Kinnitty would be a long shot to get 4 wins but with Clareen up next they could get the win here (injuries and suspension will really hinder Kinnitty in this game) and build a bit of momentum. If they do get over Clareen they would have more or less guaranteed their survival and their 2 last games vs Belmont and Shinrone would be somewhat of 2 free shots.

I'm afraid it looks like Drumcullen, Ballinamere, Clareen and Belmont's year is done with regards making a county semi-final and their aim now is to avoid a relegation playoff. This in particular has been a disastrous championship so far for Belmont after the high profile appointment of Ollie Baker. Getting hammered by 10 points in Round 1 and not scoring from play in Round 2 wouldn't exactly have been what they had in mind for 2021. Doesn't get any easier for them playing Birr in Round 3.

Semi Final Qualifiers:
Kilcormac / Killoughey
St Rynaghs
Coolderry
Birr

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:06 pm

It depends on the facts.

Heel of the hunt, Belmont were awarded at least 15 scoreable frees, and perhaps more if they missed a few. Now either Kilcormac had a plan to dump them on their arses any time they got a sniff of a score, or Kilcormac's tecnique in the tackle was dire, or the referee ignored the unwritten 'quota' rule.

It would be interesting to see how far out the frees were awarded. Close to goal and Belmont should be credited with getting in to scoring positions. Out around half way and it's a different story. It would be great if the reporter highlighted that, but that would be asking a bit much.

But I believe not scoring from play isn't something Belmont should be ashamed of. A point from a free is the same as a point from play. Telling us the entire 0-16 came from placed balls tells us nothing.
Fairplayalways wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:25 pm
whether KK conceded all these frees is a separate issue, the point is Belmont did not score from play which is fairly astonishing for a team tipping around county semi finals for the last few years. Well known intercounty stars often sored 15 or 16 points in from frees and in intercounty games and they are hailed as having a MOM performance, no one says the other team were indisciplined in particular in hurling, you do hear of it in football ok a fair bit, the issue of indiscipline of course is the issue for the conceding team, but as I say, Belmont not scoring from play is the point I rose, not the indiscipline or other of Kilcormac, its an unusual one in Offaly hurling. My informants as you call them didnt know of the stat and they at the game.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Bord na Mona man » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:18 pm

A pre-planned strategy to foul as quick as possible has its merits in hurling.
Less likely to concede goals. It cuts off the supply to danger forwards. It puts pressure on the freetaker who might be flaky. It breaks momentum. You get a chance to injure a few fellas as well.

However when you see a team scoring 16 from frees and 0 from play you'd have to wonder if K/K had kept their discipline and backed off would Belmont have scored maybe 2-6 instead?

greenairfield
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by greenairfield » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:08 am

I think KK are far from through they could struggle v Shinrone by all account they were dreadful v Belmont a team who seem to be struggling.

it could be that its Rynaghs Birr Shinrone then Coolderry or KK who make it through.

Clareen game could be tricky v Coolderry also

Fairplayalways
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Fairplayalways » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:28 pm

heel of the hunt, whatever way you dress it up, Belmont did not score from play, whether they got within 10 or 50 yards of goal in irrelevant if they did not get one score from play..no point twisting it to KK indiscipline, they got 0-16 so no point saying they were in shooting position when they were fouled and the free was converted, and probaly some missed, not scoring from play is the surprise for a club of Belmonts calibre... leading intercounty free takers in all counties have landed similar scores (and more) to David Nallys 0-15 from placed balls and yes pundits do refer to to the indiscipline of the defenders/opponents giving away the frees, but that said,other players roll in maybe with 6 or 7 additional points from play over 60/70 minutes ontop of the frees..no team will win scoring only from frees, if it did or ever will happen it will be a very rare occasion. Its not making small of Belmont its just very surprising for a club whom as I said are there or there abouts county semi finalist for last few years...repeat not a run down of Belmont at all, just coldnt believe such a statistic to emerge from the game thats all..

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:16 pm

I generally agree with this. I would rate Coolderry as more likely than Shinrone to qualify, given they're the more likely to win four games. Shinrone may beat Kilcormac, but it's essentially a knockout game for Shinrone. Clareen appear fierce depleted this year and I can't see them beating Coolderry.
greenairfield wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:08 am
I think KK are far from through they could struggle v Shinrone by all account they were dreadful v Belmont a team who seem to be struggling.

it could be that its Rynaghs Birr Shinrone then Coolderry or KK who make it through.

Clareen game could be tricky v Coolderry also
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:18 pm

I couldn't agree with any of this at all at all.
Fairplayalways wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:28 pm
heel of the hunt, whatever way you dress it up, Belmont did not score from play, whether they got within 10 or 50 yards of goal in irrelevant if they did not get one score from play..no point twisting it to KK indiscipline, they got 0-16 so no point saying they were in shooting position when they were fouled and the free was converted, and probaly some missed, not scoring from play is the surprise for a club of Belmonts calibre... leading intercounty free takers in all counties have landed similar scores (and more) to David Nallys 0-15 from placed balls and yes pundits do refer to to the indiscipline of the defenders/opponents giving away the frees, but that said,other players roll in maybe with 6 or 7 additional points from play over 60/70 minutes ontop of the frees..no team will win scoring only from frees, if it did or ever will happen it will be a very rare occasion. Its not making small of Belmont its just very surprising for a club whom as I said are there or there abouts county semi finalist for last few years...repeat not a run down of Belmont at all, just coldnt believe such a statistic to emerge from the game thats all..
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Fairplayalways » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:42 am

The report of the game in Midland Tribune was also in shock of Belmont not scoring from play..it is as it is...Birr are tipping away nicely I see..Coolderry its hard to say really...KK puffing along..will still be a hard team to beat come knock out..anyone neutral outside of obvious regular "like to see win it" for me Birr would be intresesting team to win it out..

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:14 pm

And did our dear local paper enlighten the reader as to the nature of the frees- were they designed to slow Belmont down or were they for clumsy tackling? And how far out were they? Or did our dear local paper merely report on who scored?
Fairplayalways wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:42 am
The report of the game in Midland Tribune was also in shock of Belmont not scoring from play..it is as it is...Birr are tipping away nicely I see..Coolderry its hard to say really...KK puffing along..will still be a hard team to beat come knock out..anyone neutral outside of obvious regular "like to see win it" for me Birr would be intresesting team to win it out..
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by Fairplayalways » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:25 pm

missing the point for some strange reason...will we add another section to the scoreboard now for "well he was in and was fouled so take that as a score if he misses the free as he would have scored if he wasnt fouled"

Frees will happen in all games, we have seen more than 0-15 being scored both inside and outside the county over the years, particulary in recent years. Not being able to put a few over the bar in any game (let alone 1 effort) is not a good return, dress it up anyway one wants, the 0-15 or -0-16 is one thing, but again most teams row in with maybe 5/6 or more points from other players..or were all these fouled too?...if they were we can take the Ireland rugby team out of the 6 nations and let Kilcormac in because if they have that good of a tackle rate I, and I dont like rugby, want to see it...its astonishing to me and a many more I spoke to that no score was hit from play..no disrespect to the Belmont lads, I know a few of them and they are to first to be disapointed with that stat..what team wouldnt be...it happened and hopefully they will bouce back the next day...

frankthetank
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by frankthetank » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:25 pm

Round 3 completed and it looks like 3 of the 4 semi - final places are more or less decided with K/K, St Rynaghs and Coolderry going to go through. While Coolderry lost yesterday they should have more than enough to beat Clareen and Drumcullen in their last 2 games and reach the magic 8 points. The fourth place then is going to be a real scrap but I think Belmont may have got their season back on track with their 1 point win over Birr.

Shinrone vs Birr and Kinnitty vs Belmont are now huge games in the next round

At the other end of things Drumcullen will be in the relegation final and the game between Ballinamere and Clareen for me is now a defacto relegation semi-final. If Clareen win this they will have the head to head advantage over Ballinamere and providing no other team finishes on 2 points then Ballinamere will enter relegation final.

Updated Predictions:
Semi - Finalists: Kilcormac / Killoughey, St Rynaghs, Coolderry, Belmont (Birr removed from my last prediction after Round 2 and replaced by Belmont)

Relegation Final:
Drumcullen vs Ballinamere

SearingDrive
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by SearingDrive » Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:47 pm

Belmont pulled off a shock win yesterday. If they can get another win, they are in contention for the knockout stages. KK and St. Rynagh’s are on maximum points after 3 games, Coolderry and Birr are on 4 points, Belmont, Kinnitty, and Shinrone are on 2 points. Ballinamere are pointless, along with Drumcullen and Seir Kieran. Hope I got that right, still think Ballinamere can win their final games, a big if. The final 2 rounds will be interesting.

Semi finalists. KK and St. Rynagh’s.
Quarter finalists. Coolderry, Birr, Belmont and Shinrone.
Relegation. Drumcullen and Seir Kieran.

frankthetank
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Re: Club Hurling championship

Post by frankthetank » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:19 pm

SearingDrive wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:47 pm
Belmont pulled off a shock win yesterday. If they can get another win, they are in contention for the knockout stages. KK and St. Rynagh’s are on maximum points after 3 games, Coolderry and Birr are on 4 points, Belmont, Kinnitty, and Shinrone are on 2 points. Ballinamere are pointless, along with Drumcullen and Seir Kieran. Hope I got that right, still think Ballinamere can win their final games, a big if. The final 2 rounds will be interesting.

Semi finalists. KK and St. Rynagh’s.
Quarter finalists. Coolderry, Birr, Belmont and Shinrone.
Relegation. Drumcullen and Seir Kieran.
Searing Drive, I've a sneaking suspicion you had a few pints yesterday....!!!

1. Ballinamere are on 2 points. They beat Drumcullen 0-17 to 0-15 yesterday

2. Kinnitty are on 4 points following wins over Drumcullen 2 weeks ago and a 0-17 to 1-12 win over Clareen yesterday.

3. There are no Q-Finals. Top 4 make semi - finals.

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