Senior Hurling Results

[seamroga]

Let's start the sliotar rolling.
Birr versus Clara was played this evening (Saturday). I'm not sure why the fixture was changed but it may have been to suit Birr because they agreed to travel to Clara for the game. I'd say it was the first SHC tie in Pairc Bhride for a long time.
Anyway, the result was something like 5-22 to 0-8. Birr didn't actually go out of their way to annihilate Clara, but scores were inevitable as they owned possession. Brian Whelahan started on the half back line for Birr.
29 points in it at the end, by my reckoning, so that's a point for those who tipped Birr.
(One small point. It was great for Clara to achieve senior status and no doubt the intermediate title brought great joy to the club, especially in a year when they also won the senior football final. Their first year in the top flight wasn't bad either. But in a dual club, it's hard to compete at that level in both codes over a prolongued period of time and it just struck me that hurling in Clara may be better off if they had a team battling for the intermediate title for four or five years (maybe losing a couple of semi-finals and a final along the way) rather than being up at senior level and suffering heavy defeats. And that point doesn't just apply to them. It looks like the 'weak group' in the SHC should not have been scrapped.)

[Lone Shark]

It looks like the 'weak group' in the SHC should not have been scrapped.

I'd say it should never have existed - we have too many senior football clubs, and way too many senior hurling clubs. The gulf between top and bottom has been masked for ages. By rights if you are 66/1 or bigger starting the year to win the senior championship, you should be intermediate. Why clubs like Clara don't ask to be regraded I'll never know.

Cheers for the report though.

[Bord na Mona man]

I don't thinks clubs like Clara demanding to be regraded would solve anything.
Do they get replaced by an even weaker Intermediate team, or do we hope that 4 or 5 other clubs also drop down to Intermediate with them?
Optimistically there are about 8 clubs in Offaly who are anything near what we imagine "senior standard" should be.
We can either reduce the senior championship to a more realistic size, or we could revert back to the weaker group system.
I would be in favour of the latter as it at least creates a buffer zone between Intermediate and Senior.

[Bogman]

Shamrocks were unlucky to lose to Kinnitty. Derek Molloy kept them in it by good free-taking and brave decisions to go for goals from frees which paid off twice.

Two points ahead for about 8 minutes midway through the second half Shamrocks missed 5 chances in a row.

Then Kinnitty got a goal, Shamrocks levelled it up a few times before the finish, including a free from his own 45 metre line from Neville Coughlan, but Kinnitty edged it with a Colm Coughlan free at the end of 5 minutes injury time.

Derek Molloy was injured during the frantic closing stages. I hope it's not serious because he showed a lot of courage and maturity in his play - he deserved more out of it.

[Plain of the Herbs]

For the emigrants on the site, Lusmagh beat Belmont 1-11 to 0-8 this aft. A big boost for the small parish who had 5 unavailable since last year, and fielded a very young team, some of whom were conceding a size advantage. Lusmagh led throughout, Pat Temple's early goal set them up and the lead in the second half varied between 4 and 6. Some of the hooking and blocking was a joy to watch, and a quarter final slot beckons. Belmont appear to have gone back alot.

Elsewhere, Coolderry had a big win over Clareen.

[Lone Shark]

We can either reduce the senior championship to a more realistic size, or we could revert back to the weaker group system.
I would be in favour of the latter as it at least creates a buffer zone between Intermediate and Senior.

Surely intermediate is the "Buffer" as it were?? If we only have 8 senior teams, then that's all we have. A more competitive intermediate championship that is not dominated by second string teams would surely be a positive step. While you can't create hurlers where none exist, the fact that our intermediate winners have tended to get beaten by Kilkenny's junior winners in the Leinster Junior championship has not indicated that our intermediate standard is anything decent.

Mentally our county team has been weak for some years now, lying down to hidings by Kilkenny and losing games that we were in control of at half time. I don't think this is helped by the fact that half the teams in our senior championship start the year with no ambition greater than survival and avoiding a hiding from Birr. It's not exactly fostering a winning mentality.

[Lone Shark]

For the emigrants on the site, Lusmagh beat Belmont 1-11 to 0-8 this aft. A big boost for the small parish who had 5 unavailable since last year, and fielded a very young team, some of whom were conceding a size advantage. Lusmagh led throughout, Pat Temple's early goal set them up and the lead in the second half varied between 4 and 6. Some of the hooking and blocking was a joy to watch, and a quarter final slot beckons. Belmont appear to have gone back alot.

That is disappointing, particularly as I thought it always was the kind of game that was liable to be decided on a knife edge. I can't imagine how small some of the Lusmagh players must be if a Belmont team that probably fielded at least six under 21 players including two or three minors had a size advantage.

John Egan was strong last year at full back, and combined with Sean Grennan getting ever older, the spine of Belmont wouldn't be as strong as it was last year. My hope was that the improvement in players like the Egans, The Kennys, Tomás Bennett and the likes would compensate, but seemingly not.

If Belmont have gone back a long way and Lusmagh are still short a few key players, the question possibly has to be asked - have Killavilla a real chance of getting out of this group? It's a dark day for Offaly hurling if they do.

[Bord na Mona man]

Surely intermediate is the "Buffer" as it were?? If we only have 8 senior teams, then that's all we have. A more competitive intermediate championship that is not dominated by second string teams would surely be a positive step. While you can't create hurlers where none exist, the fact that our intermediate winners have tended to get beaten by Kilkenny's junior winners in the Leinster Junior championship has not indicated that our intermediate standard is anything decent.

A team that wins the weak group will at least have momentum, be on a winning streak and will be more likely to acquit themselves in a quarter final against a strong team.
In an 8 team senior championship scenario, a team that wins Intermediate will have to wait half a year before their next championship game. They then would be drawn a group where they have to go in cold against a Birr or Coolderry.
That's when hammerings are more likely to occur.

The weak group in football has served clubs like Doon well for the reasons outlined above.

[Lone Shark]

The weak group in football has served clubs like Doon well for the reasons outlined above.

The difference is that for a club like Doon, beating Rhode or whoever is unlikely but not impossible. For Lusmagh or Belmont last year to come out out and beat Birr was just never going to happen. When Doon won the weak group the ran Rhode to two points. When Lusmagh won the weak group last year they still lost by a dozen or so.

I just think that only teams who really have a realistic, however unlikely, chance of winning the county senior championship should be in it. Teams starting the year believing that they can't win and avoiding relegation is an achievement is not good for them.

[redser]

I dont necessarily think that its a few clubs that should not be in senior.

Birr and Coolderry are miles ahead of the others.

Kilcormac would be the closest to them.

Then the rest of the teams are very close.

Kinnitty got a win in controversial fashion at the weekend. Shinrone, Skenach, Rynaghs, Lusmagh, Clareen, Shamrocks, Tullamore, Belmont are all near the same standard. Theres no massive difference between these.

The big problem for the likes of Clara and the other footballing sides is the fixtures been too close together.

Any match reports?

[Lone Shark]

I'd say Rynagh's are probably a cut above that pack myself, but it's a marginal thing.

The point is not really that those clubs should not be senior, though in a lot of other hurling counties they wouldn't be. The point is that the Drumcullens, Claras and Killavillas of this world are a long way off, and no combination of circumstances would see them beat Birr or Coolderry, if they got four lucky goals and every break of the ball imaginable - it just couldn't happen. To be honest up until their good showing this weekend I'd have said the same of Tullamore.

I just think that a 10 team senior championship would be a better reflection of the standards in the county, and it would probably help the intermediate championship as well. If I was really to be given the option, I'd have one or two divisional sides in there as well.

[seamroga]

The best thing about the 'weak group' in the Senior Hurling Championship was that it gave the intermediate champions a 'settling in' period. There's nothing worse than battling for five or six years to win an intermediate title and then dropping straight back down the year after. Even if three or four clubs are relegated from senior this year, the likelihood is that one of them will go up again in the near future.
Last weekend, the Kinnitty/Shamrocks and St Rynagh's/Tullamore games were very close and that's what we need more of - close games. I was actually surprised that St Rynagh's were not better after winning the minor and under 21 titles last year. In fact, I think they would have been in big trouble against Tullamore without Diarmuid Horan. Judging on this display, I can't see them making much headway this year.

[del]

disagree totally st rynaghs are no way near birrr or coolderry tullamore were missing three or four regulars and rynaghs struggled big time to beat them i felt a draw was a fair result and as for what the rynaghs manager said after the match saying that second place was there for the taking very disrespectful to tullamore and the rest of the teams in the group

[Lone Shark]

The best thing about the 'weak group' in the Senior Hurling Championship was that it gave the intermediate champions a 'settling in' period. There's nothing worse than battling for five or six years to win an intermediate title and then dropping straight back down the year after. Even if three or four clubs are relegated from senior this year, the likelihood is that one of them will go up again in the near future.

What you're saying is that the weak group became an intermediate championship of it's own, while the intermediate became, to all intents and purposes, a junior championship. The only difference was that participants in group C had no chance of winning a county title that year. To me that is reflective of the obsession with senior status in this county, even when it's clearly of no benefit to the clubs and the players involved. It smacks of the committee calling the shots just so they can say their club is senior.

In saying all this, I was relieved that Tullamore didn't get relegated last year, because I think that it's vital to the future of Offaly hurling that our main population base tries to keep hurling alive and provides one or two players to our county teams every year. However part of the reason would be that Offaly intermediate hurling is no place to be hothousing potential future county players. If on the other hand there were three or four more good clubs down there it would be a much better championship.


Regarding Rynagh's they should be a lot better - last year they were being carried by Flannery and Horan, two minors at the time, while a lot of their senior guys were playing very poorly. It all came to a head in the quarter final against Kinnitty, when the two young lads were their only scorers. I assumed that the likes of McIntyre, Mulhare and Gary Kelly would step their act up this year and provide the spine that the team needs - it seems it hasn't happened. There are good players coming of age for Rynaghs, but unless the senior players step up and lead them along, they'll go nowhere. Still the main underachievers in Offaly hurling by a mile though.

As for the comments after the game, I didn't hear them, but Rynagh's wouldn't be Rynagh's without a superiority complex .......

[Bord na Mona man]

I just think that only teams who really have a realistic, however unlikely, chance of winning the county senior championship should be in it. Teams starting the year believing that they can't win and avoiding relegation is an achievement is not good for them.

In that case only 3 or 4 clubs should be entering the senior championship.
In every other county there are senior teams who have no hope of winning a county title.

I think the weak group is the best way to find a team worthy of taking on the better teams in a given year. You at least play teams of your own ability and if you're better than them, the you get a chance to play one of the better sides.
It's better to have teams in a weak group hurling to avoid relegation, than teams winning an Intermediate and being lined up for potential hidings the year after.