2015 Walsh cup

[Offalys Future]

I disagree regarding the minor teams over the past 11 years.
we have had lots of really good teams and potentially really good players.
what we haven't had is proper structures in place at underage to develop these players correctly and also we have had the wrong people managing the hurling teams in Offaly and the sad thing is we continue to not have structures in place at underage level to develop our players and we still have the wrong people over all our hurling teams.

[townman]

I disagree regarding the minor teams over the past 11 years.
we have had lots of really good teams and potentially really good players.
what we haven't had is proper structures in place at underage to develop these players correctly and also we have had the wrong people managing the hurling teams in Offaly and the sad thing is we continue to not have structures in place at underage level to develop our players and we still have the wrong people over all our hurling teams.

not going to get into a debate with you but what good minor teams did you see or players that have came on and lit up as a senior cause i don't see them, our minors as i have said have been beaten by laois 3 years in a row westmeath, carlow, have also beaten them, when was the last time an offaly minor team had a win over either kilkenny, wexford, or Dublin, laois beat us by 20 odd points in 2013 now laois are doing well but they didn't win anything either any year they have beaten us. the only young players that i see at the moment coming through from the minors the last few years are Emmett Nolan, Cillian Kiely, and Eoaghan Cahill who is minor again this year and thats about it.

[Chris]

There is a saying which goes something like.......madness is defined by doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result. The current manager was one of the greatest hurlers I have ever seen....Unfortunately the same cannot be said of his managerial competencies. This year has started in the same way as last year.....in hisI tter viewafter the game he said that thd players had no fight.....well, hello, Mr Manager but do you not think that is a serious failing on yout part....the same reason for defeat was given against Antrim last year....so have we moved on??? Absolutely not. All the signs are that this year will be as bad Iif not worse than last year.....i honestly believe it is time for a change, even at this late stage. ...something can be salvaged if change happens now ......otherwise it will be Division 2 hurling next year.....the amazing thing is that there are no consequences for poor performance......is the manager beyond criticism in the county board.....the writing is on the wall.....time for a change, even at this late stage!!!!

[townman]

you will be waiting a long time before the county board do anything, Sid is in over his head here lets not forget that he went in for the minor job and came out with the senior job tells you all you need to know about who are running offalys county board, i think myself he should have left after the shambles that went on in Nolwan park last summer. but the players have played a part here to lets not forget they don't seem to have the pride for the jersey and i know even when Whelehan goes it will be much the same in 2016

[jimbob17]

If we are saying the wrong people are over it, is it being a touch unfair to those doing their best.....It might be hard to get people......but if not, Who are the right people to have over it? or who are the better alternatives?

[jimbob17]

Also, what is going on with Chris McDonnell......is he injured or what......One of our best hurlers 2 years ago and since Whelehan took over he hasnt got a smell of it.....Is he from the wrong part of the county or what? Probably the most consistent corner back we have if given a chance.......

[kaiserchief]

After what I seen yesterday, I fear what Laois will do to us never mind Killkenny.

It's clear to say that we have no shape or game plan. I was at the Tipp match and the same team lined out ( Paddy Murphy played, why didn't he play yesterday) and they put in twice the performance. Maybe yesterday was a reflection of tiredness but all in all, there is nothing positive to take from yesterday.

Dempsey is a top class goalie and showed this again yesterday. I would also give him a crack at taking a penalty.

Camon and Shortt where destroyed in the full back. It might not be a fair to them that a lot of good ball was going perfect for their men but both where roasted yesterday. Good to see Stephen Egan back hurling well, was seady as a rock.

Playing with two forwards in the half back line is still a problem. All 3 where very poor on the day. Center back is still a problem and dont think Egan is the solution. He is an out and out half forward.

How many times is Ryan and Wynne going to be given a chance. Both where poor in the first half and Ryan came into a bit in the second. Kiely changed the game around the middle when introduced. Anyone who said he is not able for senior is crazy, he was the most physical player on the pitch and Id say Joe Cannig and Andy Smith would vouch for that.

This is where is gets good. A half forward line that caught little or no puck out just wont work. Mann was out of position most of the time. Carroll had a good first half but did nothing positive with the possession. I was actually impressed with Kinsella's work rate, he made some stupid decisions at times but he tried hard. This is where couching comes in.

Quirke was lively and worked very hard. Dooley looks slimer and when ball in hand is very dangerous but work rate is low. Currams could have stayed at home, would question his captaincy material with a performance like that.


All roads lead to Portlaiose for what could be an interesting evening.

Surely McDonald, Kiely, Gearthy, Bergin and Murphy will get the nod.

[sam88885a]

yesterday was no surprise ,it was clear all last year that b whelahan had lost the players the supporters and his own self belief as a manager .
we are in a crisis now .
the whole spine of the team is wrong offaly need g healion at full back . he is a super talker and would bring structor to the defence alongside s egan at corner back and maybe kelliher at centre back with p camon e nolan d shortt n wynne s coughlan e murphy filling the other three spots . d kilmartain in midfield with either d morkam kiely and doughan beside him .
i have c mahon at centre forward and c egan at full forward and have s quirke s dooley j bergin d currams and b carroll competing for the other spots and playing off mahon and egan .
a core of a team like this
j demsey
s egan
g healion
a/n
a/n
d kelliher
a/n
d kilmartain
a/n
c mahon
a/n
a /n
c egan
a/n
if we had a team built around those guys the young lads like nolan camon kiely etc would get a chance to develope .
sadly i cant see that happening and these young lad are been asked to lead a team before they are ready to do so and they will probally end up damaged and never reaching their potental .
honestly a decent club team like kk would hammer offaly yesterday and laois will give us a hammering in a few weeks time .
christy ring next year looks certain if b whelahan is left in charge

[Buttons]

yesterday was no surprise ,it was clear all last year that b whelahan had lost the players the supporters and his own self belief as a manager .
we are in a crisis now .
the whole spine of the team is wrong offaly need g healion at full back . he is a super talker and would bring structor to the defence alongside s egan at corner back and maybe kelliher at centre back with p camon e nolan d shortt n wynne s coughlan e murphy filling the other three spots . d kilmartain in midfield with either d morkam kiely and doughan beside him .
i have c mahon at centre forward and c egan at full forward and have s quirke s dooley j bergin d currams and b carroll competing for the other spots and playing off mahon and egan .
a core of a team like this
j demsey
s egan
g healion
a/n
a/n
d kelliher
a/n
d kilmartain
a/n
c mahon
a/n
a /n
c egan
a/n
if we had a team built around those guys the young lads like nolan camon kiely etc would get a chance to develope .
sadly i cant see that happening and these young lad are been asked to lead a team before they are ready to do so and they will probally end up damaged and never reaching their potental .
honestly a decent club team like kk would hammer offaly yesterday and laois will give us a hammering in a few weeks time .
christy ring next year looks certain if b whelahan is left in charge

Remember being at the intermediate county final 2 years ago between kk and Ballinamere, all the senior team were on the hill shouting down to the team as to their positioning on the field, nearly sure it was Ger shouting to move back a few yards due to the wind. We dont have any leader out there anymore.

[Offalys Future]

I disagree regarding the minor teams over the past 11 years.
we have had lots of really good teams and potentially really good players.
what we haven't had is proper structures in place at underage to develop these players correctly and also we have had the wrong people managing the hurling teams in Offaly and the sad thing is we continue to not have structures in place at underage level to develop our players and we still have the wrong people over all our hurling teams.

not going to get into a debate with you but what good minor teams did you see or players that have came on and lit up as a senior cause i don't see them, our minors as i have said have been beaten by laois 3 years in a row westmeath, carlow, have also beaten them, when was the last time an offaly minor team had a win over either kilkenny, wexford, or Dublin, laois beat us by 20 odd points in 2013 now laois are doing well but they didn't win anything either any year they have beaten us. the only young players that i see at the moment coming through from the minors the last few years are Emmett Nolan, Cillian Kiely, and Eoaghan Cahill who is minor again this year and thats about it.

Your missing the point. Of course players haven't came through at u-21 and senior level. How can they if they haven't been developed and managed properly at underage level.
Much like your own club Birr and the reason for no county title at any level since 2009. They haven't had correct structures in place and good people implementing these structures.

[sam88885a]

its rubbish to think a good manager would not improve things .
look at kk when pat joe was in charge they were terrible yet they same bunch of lads have won 3 offaly titles in a row and a leinster under d owens and j dunne . j piltington couldnt get the best our of kk either .
from what i hear d owens and j dunne are brilliant at creating a spirit and getting guys to go out and die in their boots for each other .
offaly need the kk lads but b whelahan does not seem to really want them

[flyingsaucer]

[quote][/quote]((Kenny might not be back as his knee is causing him problem's, Del i heard they were trying to get him back,)
Just to clear this up Brain Whelan dropped del from the panel and no approach has been made to get him back .Word is he is moving to the UK ,so not alone is he going to be a loss to offaly but also to his club .

[Toxicity234]

Yesterday was a mess.

but lets start with the good thing for yesterday.
Demspey was excellent.
Shorrt and Egan did great considering that they were marking 5 players.
Quirke was excellent when he got the ball.
Kiely was excellent and look like me had half an idea how to defend.
If the managment team have an sense we do something crazy like playing 6 defenders for now on.
Its was great to see Eanna Murphy back in an Offaly jersey.

Now the bad.
Jesus lads this will take all day.
The game plan was poor. (just a slight different version of last year).
The half back line. Look like 3 lads playing out of position.
The midfield that started was poor but in fairness they was 3 Offaly half back in midfield with them.
The half forward were bully by the Galway backs and that was with the extra man playing as a second centre forward robbing Currams of any space.
The full forward line. Well for the last 12 months we don't have one.
The 40 yards of space between the full back line and half back line/midfield.
The decision to take off anyone ahead of any of the Half backs was mad. Idea that Camon who had wing and centre forward running straight at him been a fault of Offaly problem was genius.
Camon and Wynne got into the Offaly panel cause of there form with Rynagh's at Wing back and Centre forward. why not give them 10 mins in there positon before dragging them off.
Sean Ryan and Parlon running into tackle and turning over the ball them they had time and space to pick out a pass.
A full 70 mins of hurling only a hand full of cross field ball hit.

Yesterday was real bad but its only a disaster if the management don't learn for it and this management team has a shocking record over the last 12 months for learning from games.

Now Whelehan interview after the match. Blaming the players. talking about players lack of fight.
maybe Whelehan doesn't know but the manager job is to get the team set up and player attitude correct. if it not correct then it down to him. Both were mile off.
Picked out Colin Egan for not playing well at centre back. This could be down to the fact that the manager hasn't drill into him what a good centre back does and doesn't do.(the same thing can be said about Parlon) Saying that Egan improved in the second half that was down to the 18 years old midfield come in and getting back behind the Make shift Centre back and digging him out of holes something that the experience midfield beside doesn't have a clue about doing.

If this is the squad that this management team has settle on when They very little choice for Full and Centre back. Shortt and Eanna Murphy are the only defender that are big and mean enough to play Full and centre back. Centre Back is more important to be able to defend right than be able to pick out a great pass. the rest are fight it out for the wing and corner back position.

Midfield is a mess. Maybe Nolan can go in there but Kiely is still way too young to be leading an inter county team. Maybe King can go into there and give us a dig out.

The half forward line. Colin Egan needs to go into centre forward and Mann,( who with some good coaching could turn into a good wing forward) Murphy, Wynne and the rest fight it out for the wing forwards. I don't include Brian Carroll, Dooley or Tom Carroll(but i'm hoping i'm wrong) as Brian Carroll and Dooley have been tried at wing forward a number of time and they failed. there Corner forwards and let them fight for there best position.

We have loads of good full forwards. Dan Currams and Joe Bergin should be left to fight it out for the full forward position with Tom Carroll, Brian Carroll, Qurike, Gererthy and Dooley fight it out for the corner forwards spots. Quirke is ahead of Dooley at the moment.

[sam88885a]

tox is agree that b whelahan has again blamed the players for lack of fight and took no blame for another terrible preformance .
a manager creates the proper spirit in a team or a bad manager destroys any spirit in a team .
d shortt is completely unproven at full back, he play well for rynagh last year but struggled in the county final against kk ,the same can be said about e murphy look good but struggle against kk . why because kk are a proper team .
kk play a very direct game and leave space inside at all times offaly simply dont do that .
that why if whelahan can get g healion back it would help our defence .
i have a team of
j demsey
n wynne
g healion
s egan
d shortt
d kelliher
e murphy
e nolan
c kiely
j bergin
c mahon
s dooley
s quirke
c egan
d currams
if we played direct hurling and everyone knew their job and worked hard we would be competive at least .
that means whelahan needs to get g healion d kelliher and c mahon back and probally get d owens and j dunne in to develope a game plan .
e o shea brought liam sheedy in last year to help surely whelahan needs help more than anyone .
.

[townman]

its rubbish to think a good manager would not improve things .
look at kk when pat joe was in charge they were terrible yet they same bunch of lads have won 3 offaly titles in a row and a leinster under d owens and j dunne . j piltington couldnt get the best our of kk either .
from what i hear d owens and j dunne are brilliant at creating a spirit and getting guys to go out and die in their boots for each other .
offaly need the kk lads but b whelahan does not seem to really want them

your forgetting the same pa joe won 3 all irelands with Birr also 3 minor all ireland titles senior minor and under 21 leinsters in 1989, Danny Owens was also over offaly minor's for a while, Brian Whelahan had 8 ofthe k/k squad in last year, he has made Currams captain this year and by the way his hurling he shouldn't be on the first 15, i don't think Conor Mahon is around this summer, the likes of kevin grogan and Brian Leonard don't want to go in and didn't with Baker over them either, if Ger Healion comes back him along with young Kiely are the only k/k players worth their place, Currams is not good enough.