Offaly v Kilkenny

[babsandbond]

Im a birr man so here we go...at the start of the year i said whelahan shouldnt of been appointed as he had no experince at this level..just like joe dooley and ollie baker didnt...so a brief summary

Bad county board + bad managers = bad team....

We can give out about managers all day long but until the county board officals are all sacked were at a tiny little thing called noting..they should be called the mafia.

[Toxicity234]

the results and displays seem to be getting worse as the year unfolds, first things first Sid looks to be running out of time and this year could be his last, Sid was asked by the county board to do the minor job yet end up with the senior gig Madness why no one else would go near offaly at theses times.

fair play to sid he wouldn't have it said he turn his back at the chance to train offaly when they are at their lowest in years. now the players in my opinion have to take some blame in this they are the ones that cross the white line as they say on match day, its not Whelehan's Bakers, Dooley's fault if the players don't have the pride or fight in the county jersey which they seem to not have this 6 years.

I have to agree with the sentiment of the open but let face facts and i do think its pride that is the problem but not of the players. Its the pride of the management team and the county board that is the problem. Remember the County Board didn't interview the only person who want the job. that bullshit.
For the players to preform they need the structure, a plan and belief. All of these are missing. The structure is the county board problem of the most part. The plan and belief are the management team problem. Its must be impossible for the players to training well knowing that the management team are useless.
Try training when you know that on match day the squad no centre backs,hardly any wing back. hardly any midfielder. and 13 corner forwards in the squad.
Pride in jersey is pointless if you know the CB and Management are leading to oblivion.
The County Board and the management personal pride have lead them to the point where offaly hurling is going to hell.

people say Danny Owens should have got the job, do you think we be much better don't think so lets remember k/k have had 8 players in with the squad so its not as if Sid is over looking the county winners the last 2 years. we have to look at our underage since 2003 last time we had a good minor side got to leinster final again kilkenny thats 11 years ago, even laois have beaten us the last 3 years in a row and its not that laois have great minor teams they have won nothing after just we are so poor.

A yeah 8 player in the squad. Let look at that. One a Goalkeeper. so that 7 left. Mahon was left out of the team for the laois game as was currims. They have being playing the rest of the league with a forward line of 5 forwards and mahon was being played wing forward. Slevin has being injured. the gerthy's have being played all over the place. i have even seen one of them play wing back for 20 mins. Kilmartin treatment was bullshit but he not the only one. Ger Healion has played the last few game with a hamstring held together with sellotape. Yeah that how to build a team.
Again the minor is a mess. Laois have beat us over the last 3 years yeah why? because laois are playing as a team. Offaly look like they only got together in the dressing room.
The Offaly Minor remind of Kilcormac Killoughey before Owens. a group of lads some playing out of position and no idea of how to play as a team.
If your point is that Owens can't build a team your so wrong it unbelievable.

someone said to be last week offaly hurling at nothing the same auld names are their every year no young players coming through or getting a chance, i said to him the first round of the championship in offaly was last week the best display from a hurler was Brian Carroll 3-10 so if your were a manger or your backroom team were watching for players Carrolls display sticks out, was their a young hurler that put his hand up last weekend don't think so thats alot of our problems the older hurlers are still better than the younger ones coming up. Rory Hanniffy his best days we agree are behind him yet theirs no hurler in offaly as skillfull or better than him at his best, Dooley the same he gets a lot of bad press over his fitness maybe some of it is true, but if he plays till he is 40 he will be on the team most days because theirs no one better than him or on the way up at the moment.

Yeah. but we being playing Carroll midfield for the last few years. Coolderry set up the team to create space for Carroll and Ryan and did it very well. That why i like Hogan as a manager but if you think that Carroll is a better hurler than Quirke well your completely wrong. Thomas Geraghty is a far more complete hurler than Carroll, Geraghty is a good finisher, works harder, can win some of his own ball and fight for his teammates. Carroll is an excellent finisher that it.
Dooley has being poor of Offaly over the last 18 months and should be no where close to the team until he get fit. It pointless have someone that 2 stone over weight in a half forward line. If the Like of Dooley, Bergin and Carroll are being picked ahead of good hardworking young hurlers we going nowhere. that what happen this year. The like of Damien Egan, Sean Cleary and Colin Egan have being left of the team or played in stupid position to accommodated unfit players.
Sorry if your unfit you shouldn't be on the team. Hanniffy, Dooley Slevin, Healion and Keliher have all being played when they not fit or worst injured.

so lads Cody could be over us at the moment and we would still be in the same position, this has been coming down the line for a good few years now so its no shock to most whos been watching offaly hurling senior and underage this 11 years. not been big headed but i think the decline of Birr over the last few years hasn't help or Rynaghs no win since 1993 and Clareens great side of the 90's thats no disrepect to Coolderry or K/K who have fine hurling teams and have won leinsters titles but its not helping that at least 3 or 4 clubs trhat backbone offaly hurling have falling off the map.

Birr have falling back (which is their problem not Offaly problem, by playing old lads and trusting the good young hurlers they have) Clareens are a good team at the moment( they have 9 players on the Offaly panel over the last 3 years). Rynagh haven't won because Kilcormac/ Killoughey and Coolderry have two great team at the moment. Belmont have step up to help fill the void and have some great talent.
Looking at Drumcullen and Ballineamere get to and winning junior lenister over the last few years.
So just because birr are falling away doesn't mean anything. Birr are just Birr and at the moment they nothing special.
What real not helping is Birr acting like they still a big club. They the 5 or 6 club in offaly at the moment.

i have seen and heard that offaly never look at north offaly, that they never get a chance thats fair enough they might have a point, but if we say the likes of Rhode,Gracefield,Killiegh,Raheen, dont field minor sides how do lads that take the minor job know whos who in north offaly, the Farrells of edenderry Sean OG and killian were on the 94,98 squads they must have had a good underage back then as finbarr Cullen also hurler in the 89 minor win over clare, lets remember Cullen played fullback in 1989 which was some doing as there was alot of good underrage hurlers in offaly back then. yes we are going to take a fair baten in nowlan park in june as Kilkenny are going to right a few wrongs in 2014 and most think the rot set in with the display again us in tullamore last year so they will be out to make sure theres no 4 goal haul this year. yes Sid could be gone after 2014 but don't be silly to think that things will be better in 2015 with most of the squad of 2014 still there with a new manger.

They was 45 hurler brought into the panel this year. they was two lads for Balinamere that were good enough to be in that 45 at least.
But this is a bit pointless because it doesn't matter who on the panel. If we playing unfit players, players out of position, stupid tactics and don't carry plays that can players that can play centre back, midfield and carry ever corner forward in the county were going nowhere.

The blame for this is two fold. The County Board are the big one. But whelehan management team are the other.
Whelehan should have know the job was too big for him at the moment.

[babsandbond]

Birr have falling back (which is their problem not Offaly problem, by playing old lads and trusting the good young hurlers they have) Clareens are a good team at the moment( they have 9 players on the Offaly panel over the last 3 years). Rynagh haven't won because Kilcormac/ Killoughey and Coolderry have two great team at the moment. Belmont have step up to help fill the void and have some great talent.
Looking at Drumcullen and Ballineamere get to and winning junior lenister over the last few years.
So just because birr are falling away doesn't mean anything. Birr are just Birr and at the moment they nothing special.
What real not helping is Birr acting like they still a big club. They the 5 or 6 club in offaly at the moment.
[quote][/quote]Birr have falling back (which is their problem not Offaly problem, by playing old lads and trusting the good young hurlers they have) Clareens are a good team at the moment( they have 9 players on the Offaly panel over the last 3 years). Rynagh haven't won because Kilcormac/ Killoughey and Coolderry have two great team at the moment. Belmont have step up to help fill the void and have some great talent.
Looking at Drumcullen and Ballineamere get to and winning junior lenister over the last few years.
So just because birr are falling away doesn't mean anything. Birr are just Birr and at the moment they nothing special.
What real not helping is Birr acting like they still a big club. They the 5 or 6 club in offaly at the moment.

toxcitiy your joking me its guys like you who havent a clue....how are birr 5 or 6 in the county ...please enlighten me

[townman]

well toxicity if Birr are only the 6th best club in offaly as you say which is a joke as they were beaten finals last year and will be in the mix when they have their full squad there lays your answer why we are
on the way to the Christy Ring cup. all theses young hurlers your talking about that Sid is not playing who are they, the Geraghtys Quirke,Sean Cleary, Niall Wynne, have all got a run don't forget we played kerry in a play off to stay up this year with alot of them so call young hurlers on board.

Danny Owens was manger with the minor teams a few years back and they were the same as today done nothing, i don't think Owens would go near the offaly job as he knows theres nothing there and the few good ones that are there are on the way out, as for Quirke better than Carroll, well Carroll has the medals let it be club county and leinster club medals, a few goals again Antrim B Team and kerry doesn't make him better than carroll, your building this young man up for a fall.

[sam88885a]

think we all agree that thinks gone down hill dramaticly under b whelahan but we still have to play kilkenny in a few weeks .
it all about damage control now .
there no point in allowing young lads to go out to get hammered .
i would go with a big strong experence team like this and move the ball quickly and hope for enough breaking ball to fall to carroll dooley bergin and currams . lads if it does not work we will be better than we have been so far this year
j demsey
n wynne g healion b harding
r hanniffy d kenny d morkam
d kilmartain c egan
d currams c mahon j bergin
b carroll c connors s dooley

[first_touch]

For the players to preform they need the structure, a plan and belief. All of these are missing. The structure is the county board problem of the most part. The plan and belief are the management team problem. Its must be impossible for the players to training well knowing that the management team are useless.
Try training when you know that on match day the squad no centre backs,hardly any wing back. hardly any midfielder. and 13 corner forwards in the squad.
Pride in jersey is pointless if you know the CB and Management are leading to oblivion.
The County Board and the management personal pride have lead them to the point where offaly hurling is going to hell.

I have to agree with you on this Tox and disagree with Townman's assertion that the problem mainly lies with players. Management's responsibility is to the get the best out of the players within the county. One of the county board's responsibilities is to appoint the best manager possible. It is apparent from recent results that both parties have failed abysmally.

Results from last weekend's challenge games are shocking. To think that Waterford, a team that has not been going well, scored 6-27 against us and still had 22 wides and brought on 13 replacements in the second half! What the hell is going on? It is true that Offaly have many times in the past pulled out a big performance in the championship against the odds. But surely not from this low?

I disagree that the quality of players is the problem. There are many fine players in that squad: Rory Hanniffy, Del Morkam, James Rigney, Dam Currams, Shane Dooley, Joe Bergin (on his day). And some very good young players like Stephen Quirke and the Geraghtys. But they need someone to engender self-belief, and get them playing to a proper plan and as a team. Remember the confidence of these players was at a low ebb after years of disappointment - and ineffective management -at county level. The players - and the Offaly supporters - deserved better than bringing in someone with no track record whatsoever of delivering what was required of a manager.

Of course if things miraculously turn around and Offaly put up a good show against Kilkenny the picture changes. But much as I would love that to happen I can't see it right now.

[Toxicity234]

Why do i think birr are the 6 best team in Offaly.
Because they somewhere between 4-6.
Kilcormac/Killoughey are number 1.
Coolderry are living on past glory but it between then and Clareen for number two and three.
Then there a batch of teams together. Belmont. Birr, Rynagh Of that 3 Belmont were the better team last year, followed by Birr and then Rynagh's.
The Rynagh-Birr match in the knock out stage was one of the worst game i have seen in offaly in the last 10 years.
But seen that Ryangh beat Birr last week without Horan and Quirke starting you have to think that Rynagh have past Birr again. Now Birr were missing Hanniffy and Cleary but Birr only score 9 point in the match.
Any good team they score more than 9 points, I'm sorry 9 point for an under 16 team would not be good. (rynagh only score 14 so they no great shake in attack).
But Birr have had the same problem for the last 5 years and they haven't able to improve the players they have in attack.
The other problem with Birr is the last two good players to break into the county panel from birr are Harding and Hayden. two good player but how long apart??
Belmont beat BG without Colin Egan and David Kenny.

to me Birr are somewhere between 4 to 6 and if i had a gun to my head 6 is the number i put them at.

[SearingDrive]

I hope it won't be a repeat of 2005.
For the players to preform they need the structure, a plan and belief. All of these are missing. The structure is the county board problem of the most part. The plan and belief are the management team problem. Its must be impossible for the players to training well knowing that the management team are useless.
Try training when you know that on match day the squad no centre backs,hardly any wing back. hardly any midfielder. and 13 corner forwards in the squad.
Pride in jersey is pointless if you know the CB and Management are leading to oblivion.
The County Board and the management personal pride have lead them to the point where offaly hurling is going to hell.

I have to agree with you on this Tox and disagree with Townman's assertion that the problem mainly lies with players. Management's responsibility is to the get the best out of the players within the county. One of the county board's responsibilities is to appoint the best manager possible. It is apparent from recent results that both parties have failed abysmally.

Results from last weekend's challenge games are shocking. To think that Waterford, a team that has not been going well, scored 6-27 against us and still had 22 wides and brought on 13 replacements in the second half! What the hell is going on? It is true that Offaly have many times in the past pulled out a big performance in the championship against the odds. But surely not from this low?

I disagree that the quality of players is the problem. There are many fine players in that squad: Rory Hanniffy, Del Morkam, James Rigney, Dam Currams, Shane Dooley, Joe Bergin (on his day). And some very good young players like Stephen Quirke and the Geraghtys. But they need someone to engender self-belief, and get them playing to a proper plan and as a team. Remember the confidence of these players was at a low ebb after years of disappointment - and ineffective management -at county level. The players - and the Offaly supporters - deserved better than bringing in someone with no track record whatsoever of delivering what was required of a manager.

Of course if things miraculously turn around and Offaly put up a good show against Kilkenny the picture changes. But much as I would love that to happen I can't see it right now.

[Toxicity234]

well toxicity if Birr are only the 6th best club in offaly as you say which is a joke as they were beaten finals last year and will be in the mix when they have their full squad there lays your answer why we are
on the way to the Christy Ring cup. all theses young hurlers your talking about that Sid is not playing who are they, the Geraghtys Quirke,Sean Cleary, Niall Wynne, have all got a run don't forget we played kerry in a play off to stay up this year with alot of them so call young hurlers on board.

Danny Owens was manger with the minor teams a few years back and they were the same as today done nothing, i don't think Owens would go near the offaly job as he knows theres nothing there and the few good ones that are there are on the way out, as for Quirke better than Carroll, well Carroll has the medals let it be club county and leinster club medals, a few goals again Antrim B Team and kerry doesn't make him better than carroll, your building this young man up for a fall.

Yeah. By your standard Tommy Walsh is a much better hurler than Brian Whelehan. Cause he got 8 All ireland medals and Whelehan has 2.
Teams win medals. As for a fall. We all fall that life. But then is the last time Carroll score 1-10 against a Kilkenny team at any level and i love for Offaly people to Believe in Players for a change instead of taking every chance to put the young lad we have coming down. Carroll is 31 he is not the future he will soon be the past. Qurike is the best of what is coming.
You said that the Geraghtys Quirke and Cleary got a run.
Let look at the run they got.

Peter got the laois match and was dropped for 3 games then went into midfield for the Limerick game. was dropped for the next three games.
Thomas wasn't picked for the Laois wexford, cork games. hurler midfield for limerick. Was drop for the antrim game, Midfield for the antrim 2 and drop of the kerry game. he hasn't play corner forward for the county yet. That not a run.
Quirke wasn't picked for the laois game. played the wexford. Dropped for the cork and limerick games. back for the antrim double and kerry games.
Cleary wasn't picked for the laois game. played the wexford game. dropped for the cork and limerick game. back of antrim one. Gone for antrim two and back for kerry.
Niall Wynne played every game in the same position for the whole league. they was people saying he should be drop after the laois game and then after the wexford game. but game in a row bring inprovement and he was our best defender over the league because we didn't fuck around with him.

The treatment of Gerathry's Quirke and Cleary has being poor over the league but the treatment of Gardiner has be nothing short of spectacular in it complete and utter incompetence. How any management team could treat a player so bad is shocking. They put him Full forward ahead of Bergin and Currims. and put Walkins and Parlon is a half back line ahead of him. that some bullshit.

At this stage the year is gone in May. But worse we have damaged the young players in the county. Kealher, Shortt, Gary Connally, David King, Sean Coughlan, Dolan and Kilamrtin all walk away. they the future of Offaly hurling not Healion, Carroll Hanniffy and the other in the panel heading for the 30 mark.
We do have Good players but it no good for young lads being throwing in for one game and then dropped for 3 when older players start no matter how badly they play or how unfit they are.

[babsandbond]

Toxicity your talking waffel again..birr were brutal against rynaghs and are going brutal..but remember dylan hayden is nowhere near fit and hannify and ryan plus watkins who isnt hurling in england might aswel been missing too...so take off your blinkers...only team thats ahead of birr is kk...coolderry know how to beat birr and id fear them..clareen havent beaten birr in 10 years in a match of any significance...so your talking shite...wel come back to this in 6 months and when ur wrong put up im toxicity im full of crap cos thats all that comes out of your posts

[Toxicity234]

Toxicity your talking waffel again..birr were brutal against rynaghs and are going brutal..but remember dylan hayden is nowhere near fit and hannify and ryan plus watkins who isnt hurling in england might aswel been missing too...so take off your blinkers...only team thats ahead of birr is kk...coolderry know how to beat birr and id fear them..clareen havent beaten birr in 10 years in a match of any significance...so your talking shite...wel come back to this in 6 months and when ur wrong put up im toxicity im full of crap cos thats all that comes out of your posts

Ok fair enough. your think Birr are the second best team in Offaly at the moment. that ok. Maybe they are. (i don't think they are and they were not better than Rynagh's last weekend) and i have stated why in the above post.
What Birr players would you have on the Offaly Team that would improve the team for the next two years?? Hanniffy is 34. Cleary is 31. Barry Whelehan is 37 Simon Is 38. that the spine of the Birr team. The only one of these players that i can see being replaced is Barry with Brendan Murphy. so Which of Birr young players are going to step into Hanniffy, Cleary and Simon shoes?

The original post that lead to this debate was

not been big headed but i think the decline of Birr over the last few years hasn't help or Rynaghs no win since 1993 and Clareens great side of the 90's thats no disrepect to Coolderry or K/K who have fine hurling teams and have won leinsters titles but its not helping that at least 3 or 4 clubs trhat backbone offaly hurling have falling off the map.

.

The two clubs that have being the main stay of Offaly hurling since 1980 are Clareen and Rynaghs. Birr in the 80 were an ok club team. in the 90 they were outstanding. but Birr people only remember the 90's they never remember the 80's when Offaly hurling thrived without then having a major contribution.
St Brendans College was great for the development of hurling in Offaly but these lads were arriving in Brendan at age 13 with a lot of skill developed from within their own clubs and primery schools.
I believe that Offaly hurling need strong clubs and they have strong clubs. The problem with the intercounty team are down to the County Board being incompetent and appointing manager that haven't any experience of success.
Where that success is taking a bad team and improving it or taking a team for nearly men to champions.

[Killeighman]

It would be worth getting jimmy dunne in to do a job on there fitness. Fitness is cat for this time of the year.

[townman]

Toxicity your talking waffel again..birr were brutal against rynaghs and are going brutal..but remember dylan hayden is nowhere near fit and hannify and ryan plus watkins who isnt hurling in england might aswel been missing too...so take off your blinkers...only team thats ahead of birr is kk...coolderry know how to beat birr and id fear them..clareen havent beaten birr in 10 years in a match of any significance...so your talking shite...wel come back to this in 6 months and when ur wrong put up im toxicity im full of crap cos thats all that comes out of your posts

Ok fair enough. your think Birr are the second best team in Offaly at the moment. that ok. Maybe they are. (i don't think they are and they were not better than Rynagh's last weekend) and i have stated why in the above post.
What Birr players would you have on the Offaly Team that would improve the team for the next two years?? Hanniffy is 34. Cleary is 31. Barry Whelehan is 37 Simon Is 38. that the spine of the Birr team. The only one of these players that i can see being replaced is Barry with Brendan Murphy. so Which of Birr young players are going to step into Hanniffy, Cleary and Simon shoes?

The original post that lead to this debate was

not been big headed but i think the decline of Birr over the last few years hasn't help or Rynaghs no win since 1993 and Clareens great side of the 90's thats no disrepect to Coolderry or K/K who have fine hurling teams and have won leinsters titles but its not helping that at least 3 or 4 clubs trhat backbone offaly hurling have falling off the map.

.

The two clubs that have being the main stay of Offaly hurling since 1980 are Clareen and Rynaghs. Birr in the 80 were an ok club team. in the 90 they were outstanding. but Birr people only remember the 90's they never remember the 80's when Offaly hurling thrived without then having a major contribution.
St Brendans College was great for the development of hurling in Offaly but these lads were arriving in Brendan at age 13 with a lot of skill developed from within their own clubs and primery schools.
I believe that Offaly hurling need strong clubs and they have strong clubs. The problem with the intercounty team are down to the County Board being incompetent and appointing manager that haven't any experience of success.
Where that success is taking a bad team and improving it or taking a team for nearly men to champions.

tell me toxicity who do you think should be over them and what players you think should be in the team who are not there and an ex why they should be, by the way whats your own club if you don't mind me asking not that it matters. you also left out kinnitty as a top club in the 80's won 3-in-a-row and also had more on the all ireland winning teams than Clareen in fact they had more than rynaghs to.

[babsandbond]

Toxcity u added 4 years on to paul clearys age hes 27 and u added 3 on to rory hannify hes 31...would you do your homework first birr have around 17 decent hurlers..senior hurlers and thats not including the whelehans...so noone has to be replaced this year...
A quick team and theres ages

Mullins(35)
Verney (27)watkins(27)quinlan(27)
Murphy(21)cleary(27)hannify(31)
Nolan(19) mullrooney(20)
Lonergan(26)harding(23)hayden(29)
Bolger(23)ryan(27)mullins(20)/dwane(30)

Thats a team of players if fully fit that can take kk...a young team in fact cos alot of people think birr are old...what you reckon tox.......?

[sam88885a]

babsandbond u have 16 on your birr team
i said with 16 the give kk on anyone a good game