2014 WALSH Cup

[Plain of the Herbs]

I do think this is a kind of a ‘silly season’ debate that will fade away when the matches start again and the focus turns to the last match and the next match. Harm will be done if it becomes a distraction to a county team, whether Senior or underage – and this has unfortunately happened on a few occasions. And wouldn't a club team be foolish is they lost focus seeking another venue for a county final, energy that would be better utilised focusing on the match?

This notion that the people of Bracknagh, and anywhere north of the Blue Ball (who I half expect will soon complain about the naming of their establishment in such debates) (that includes Shamrocks, Ballinamere and even Belmont) should have no speaking rights in this debate is a nonsense. Anyway the decision as to playing matches in OCP is made by the executive so there is no point blaming Bracknagh for that.

Thankfully Bracknagh, Ballinamere and Belmont and the like have the same say in Offaly GAA matters as everyone else. That only those likely to be of a similar mindset to your own point of view be allowed vote on ANY issue is not democracy.

I’m not sure what part the notion of playing football in Birr has to this debate. This should be about making the County ground into a home for County finals and where county teams of all grades can thrive and look forward playing. All clubs have contributed to the repayments after all.

Another factor that has been introduced to the debate is the unsuitability of the OCP surface for hurling. Diarmuid Healy brought hurling to OCP in the 1980s on the basis that it was much more suitable for hurling. So when did it become unsuitable for hurling? Bearing in mind that ours is the county which holds a traditional dislike of playing hurling in Thurles, which is widely held to be the best surface for hurling, anywhere.

[Toxicity234]

Aw your ok with Blue Ball as it the name of the Towns land as well as the Bar.

I have to say that say i don't care If Offaly play there home game in Moneygall as long as Offaly Hurling is moving in the correct direction and Offaly Supporters come to watch them.
The Offaly hurlers don't get great support in Tullamore for League games. I don't think it will be much bigger in Birr anyway. But It will feel a lot bigger because Birr is a much small stand and pitch.

I know that the Dublin and Galway Hurlers love Tullamore Pitch and think it the best pitch in Lenister for Hurling.

There is an simple solution to this. Take one league game and all the Walsh cup game and play then in Birr But Also Take a Football league game and the O'Byrne Cup games and play them in Birr as well for the next 3 years.
If it don't not make a difference where Offaly Plays the Footballer and Football Supporters won't have a problem going to Birr.

The 5 or 6 games that would be a huge boast to Birr and it would also show the People of Birr that we all in this great county together.

Just an after thought, Can someone answer this for me. When is the last time an Offaly Football team played a competitive game south of the Blueball? and i'm really not to worried if its the Townland or the pub you judge it by.

[Lone Shark]

I wish this was a silly season story, but it's still hanging around years later, which is why it needs to be resolved one way or another. If it wasn't doing any harm that would be one thing, but last year a member of the minor hurling management team said to me about their fixture in Portlaoise against Laois that they were happy to go there, they'd prefer OMP to OCP anyway. There were plenty of others in South Offaly who shared that view, and who would say it about the seniors as well. The fact that people don't appreciate how incredibly harmful that is to the cause of Offaly hurling is driving me up the wall.

On a couple of the other key issues:

The Offaly hurlers don't get great support in Tullamore for League games. I don't think it will be much bigger in Birr anyway. But It will feel a lot bigger because Birr is a much small stand and pitch.

This is the key point - the crowds aren't bigger. It's a bit noisier yes, but the stats are clear - the crowds in Tullamore have been just as good as Birr. If you compare the last few years with the last four or five years of games in SBP, county final crowds have gone up (admittedly this is probably due to the pairings), league attendances are broadly similar, Walsh Cup attendances are broadly similar, and underage crowds are slightly down (and this is probably due to the fact that we've had very poor underage teams where little or nothing was expected of them).

With regard to the field, I'm blue in the face saying this - if the field in Tullamore is a problem (and I don't for a minute think that it is, but that seems to have crept into the debate recently) then explain what the problem is and it can be compared with the best fields in Ireland and worked on. As was said, Kilkenny, Dublin, Galway and other counties have all stated their like of the field as a hurling field, due to the size and the fact that it doesn't cut up as easily as SBP does. However there are those who say that the ball flies better across the surface in SBP. I don't have an opinion on it, except to say that if there's a problem, fix it - don't relocate hurling on account of it.


With regard to playing league games in either code in Birr, my understanding is that the first thing that needs to happen for that is Birr need to get "Second County Ground" status, which right now, they don't have. I'm not exactly sure what the criteria are for this, but I know that Central Council fixes all league games and the only way that Birr will get games will be if they address this. Exceptions are made when lights are needed for night games and exceptions are made when primary grounds are unavailable, but in general, if Offaly wanted to bring the NHL opener against Laois to Birr, I don't believe they could do so.

Secondly, spreading them around makes sense up to a point, provided the county board isn't at too much of a loss for doing so, and it could make good sense if the games are chosen to maximise the away attendance. For example most of Limerick have to travel through Birr to get to Tullamore, so playing them in Birr might make some sense. Playing Longford or Cavan in Birr would be daft.

[ryot]

The term "South Offaly" is being used here but what does it mean to the people using it .

In the Sixties there was a "South Offaly Board" and effectively the Junior & Under Age championships had South & North groups with the winners of each in the County Final. Gerry Carroll was Chairperson & some of us owed him !!!

South Offaly included (in football) Kilcormack, Ferbane, Belmont, Doon, (Shannonbridge did not have a team then & were split between Doon & Belmont), Drumcullen, Kinnity, Birr & all south of Birr. Could the area have equated with an old Birr Electoral ( & Court) Division.

It this what our "South Offaly Hurling men" mean or have they a narrower definition ??

[Bord na Mona man]

The boot would be on the other foot if football clubs had to go to Birr to watch football
i'd say alot would travel from Rhode,gracefield,Walsh Island, Edenderry, to watch there clubs.

the only ones who want it in tullamore are the people who are 15 or 20 minutes away, not many would bother their arse going to ST.Brendans park if games are switch back. it looks like the hurling clubs
want it back there so if they vote with their feet, we are in trouble its bad enough the 50 or more that were at the walsh cup games their will be no one only the sterwards at it.

i would agree with the walsh cup games and league games and the county final back in Birr, fair enough
big championship games should be in tullamore, Dublin used Parnell Park, Tipp used Nenagh, even kilkenny used Freshford, Laois used Rathdowney, its a shame to see ST.Brendans getting all the work
done on it for just a few club games a year, i think the hurling clubs should have the final vote on this
not the county board or the people who live near tullamore.

These are GAA clubs you're talking about and not hurling or football clubs.

[Bord na Mona man]

The term "South Offaly" is being used here but what does it mean to the people using it .

In the Sixties there was a "South Offaly Board" and effectively the Junior & Under Age championships had South & North groups with the winners of each in the County Final. Gerry Carroll was Chairperson & some of us owed him !!!

South Offaly included (in football) Kilcormack, Ferbane, Belmont, Doon, (Shannonbridge did not have a team then & were split between Doon & Belmont), Drumcullen, Kinnity, Birr & all south of Birr. Could the area have equated with an old Birr Electoral ( & Court) Division.

It this what our "South Offaly Hurling men" mean or have they a narrower definition ??

Last time I checked google maps there was no hurling area in Offaly or this new South Offaly that seems to have been invented. It must be something that's coming from the new postcode system!

Anyway. the choice of words from some of the main agitators in this debate has been woeful. Not here necessarily on here of course. People who go half cocked and spout nonsense get pwned fairly sharpish.

But on twitter-sphere where you can spout rubbish without consequence. I've seen prominent Offaly gaels refer to the 'real hurling people' who apparently can only hail from a certain distance from Birr.

That sort of insular snobbery has no place in Offaly GAA. It's some poke in the eye for the likes of Tullamore, Brosna Gaels and Ballinamere/Durrow who might ply their trade at the top table, but are seemingly still regarded as a lesser hurling breed. While Ian Paisley wanted Northern Ireland to be a Protestant state for Protestant people, it seems to be case that some of these chappies want hurling to be a 'South Offaly' game for 'South Offaly' people and played only in 'South Offaly'.

For the record, I believe club grounds and pitches like Birr, Banagher etc should be given consideration for Walsh Cup games in the same way that Freshford and Blackwater hold games in Kilkenny and Wexford. Football matches could equally be spread around the county where appropriate.

[True Red]

Jesus wept.

As far as i can see O'Connor Park is a first class provincial ground. The spectator facilities are top drawer, the dressing rooms are excellent and for my money it is one of the best surfaces i have had the privilege of playing on. As a county we should be proud of O'Connor Park and delight in the fact that we can host opposition counties, both hurling and football, in a top class ground.

Do not be surprised if the forthcoming Rugby World Cup bid will inculde O'Connor Park as one of the host grounds as logistically and geographically it makes sense to include it.

It is also the County Ground in our county's capital town.

No disrespect to St Brendan's Park but i doubt it would compete on all of the above mentioned facts.

Why then do you have a body of people suggesting that our county hurling team play somewhere away from O'Connor Park? I dont accept the distance factor as most people have access to transport these days.

For my money this is a tiresome subject that keeps cropping up and people need to move on.

[SearingDrive]

Jesus wept.
Very well put True Red. O'Connor Park is the County Ground, so accept it. I can't understand why some people draw an imaginary line when it comes to travelling to OCP. In the past Offaly hurling supporters came from all over Offaly, to matches in Birr or Tullamore, or further afield.
Can we move on from this topic.
As far as i can see O'Connor Park is a first class provincial ground. The spectator facilities are top drawer, the dressing rooms are excellent and for my money it is one of the best surfaces i have had the privilege of playing on. As a county we should be proud of O'Connor Park and delight in the fact that we can host opposition counties, both hurling and football, in a top class ground.

Do not be surprised if the forthcoming Rugby World Cup bid will inculde O'Connor Park as one of the host grounds as logistically and geographically it makes sense to include it.

It is also the County Ground in our county's capital town.

No disrespect to St Brendan's Park but i doubt it would compete on all of the above mentioned facts.

Why then do you have a body of people suggesting that our county hurling team play somewhere away from O'Connor Park? I dont accept the distance factor as most people have access to transport these days.

For my money this is a tiresome subject that keeps cropping up and people need to move on.

[SearingDrive]

I passed through today as well BB,no immigration control, or checkpoints. Maybe sense is breaking out!!

You're OK LS I drove through Blueball today and no barriers up yet! However if some of our stars from the past have their way they won't be long before they are erected!
Its a shame but I can see this issue tearing the heart out of hurling in Offaly over the next few years. We should be looking forward to a new era under Sid and the prospect of pulling together the undoubted talent in the county to a field a competitive senior team but I fear this Birr/Tullamore thing is lurking dangerously in the background. Hopefully players and management stay out of it and get on with the job......leave it to the former boys to push their agendas.

[backofthenet]

The simple fact is and I think both sides are in agreement on this. Birr and it's surroundings are the traditional hurling heartland whilst tullamore the football heartland.

This has slightly changed with the emergence of KK and the amalgamation of some north based clubs at underage level.

But if Offaly hurling was ran as a professional sporting venture there is no doubt where the games would be held. What the county board have done is akin to a Wimbledon in the eyes of some hurling people and there is now a resistance to attending any game in tullamore now.

Everyone knows that hurling has been moved to tullamore in order to make use of the stadium & money off the attendances in order to pay for the stadia itself.

Can anyone point out a valid reason that Birr can't hold Walsh cup / league games?

[Lone Shark]

Can anyone point out a valid reason that Birr can't hold Walsh cup / league games?

(1) With regard to league games, as of now, they're not allowed. That may change, but it's up to Birr to get it changed by convincing the county board why they should fight for it. All I've heard is schyte about "tradition". By the way, nobody has come out and said that they'd have a problem with Walsh Cup ties being played there.
(2) It's a smaller field, completely dis-similar to any of the grounds that the county will be playing championship hurling in. Tullamore is almost identical in size to Croke Park, Thurles, and most of the main grounds. In terms of preparing for championship, it's not suitable for that reason.
(3) Despite your nonsensical assertion that a professional team would base itself in Birr, the truth is that attendances have been largely similar at the two grounds. There is no income advantage to going to Birr, and a small, but real, cost disadvantage. So I'd be pretty confident that if the Offaly county board was motivated by money only, this would be a very short discussion. Even now, it has to be considered.
(4) It's where we will play our home championship games, so it makes sense that players are familiar with the venue in Summer and get to know it in Spring.
(5) The facilities for players, supporters, visitors, disabled, and media is second to none in Ireland and vastly better than Birr.
(6) This constant wrestling between venues is distracting from the real things that are holding back Offaly hurling, one of which is the constant propaganda from SBP advocates saying that we can't hurl in Tullamore, or that it's some kind of disadvantage. That is incredibly harmful and needs to be put to bed.
(7) Tullamore is incredibly accessible from all sides, as well as by rail for those who travel that way. We're into minor details now I'll grant you, but I just thought I'd tack it on.

And can we PLEASE stop using this gibberish about heartland/tradition/the sash my father wore etc. We are one county, not two. Hurling is for everyone, and on a purely personal level, the fact that Birr and environs had the advantage of hosting county games for generations and yet hurling around Tullamore has come on in leaps and bounds in just a few years speaks volumes. In fact if Birr and the local area is such a heartland, they don't need home games, shur it's all in the blood anyway.

Has anyone noted here that for all the talk of Walsh Cup games going to other venues in Offaly and comparisons with elsewhere, I promise you you won't see any league games in Freshford, Rathdowney, Sixmilebridge, etc. You won't even see them in Athenry, the traditional "heartland" venue in Galway. You'll see games in Ballycastle, because Casement Park is being done up. You'll see games in Páirc Uí Rinn, because it's a designated second county ground and it has lights, while PUC doesn't. And currently, Tipp have scheduled one game for Nenagh, which has a second county ground status - but that said, I'm not convinced that that will go ahead in McDonagh Park, since the Dubs will bring a decent crowd down.

[townman]

No searingdrive there is no one here who has came up with a reason why hurling games should not
be played in Birr, lets call an Ace a Ace they only reason the games are in tullamore is they are up to their tits in money problems to pay for it.

[blinkers]

This debate is getting a bit old at this stage. Some of the scutter been said about returning hurling to birr is mind bogglin.
I dont always agree with lone shark but you are 100% right on all counts here.
Lone shark gives fact based reasons why hurling is in tullamore. Where oppenents to it are reapeating the same non sensenical drivel they always have.

Even listening to johnny pilkington on the radio a few weeks he was spouting the same shit.

The real issue is coaching and getting structures in place for offaly to become a force in hurling again not where offaly play matches..

Rant over. Lets move on and support our teams as best we can.

[joe bloggs]

the only ones who want it in tullamore are the people who are 15 or 20 minutes away, not many would bother their arse going to ST.Brendans park if games are switch back. it looks like the hurling clubs

Hmmm a bit like the 'supporters' from the hurling clubs that allegedly won't travel the 15 or 20 minutes to Tullamore at the moment

i'd say there was many a day bracknaghboy you were glad to drive by the blueball on the way to Birr to look at a hurling game or to follow the McCarthy cup on its way down to the square in birr, i'd also bet the men over the county team and the players would also like to see the hurling back in Birr.

Won't bother me in the slightest I've always travelled all over to support Offaly teams and will continue to do so. One thing that intrigues me and many others is who are all these 'supporters' that won't travel to Tullamore to support the hurlers? How many of them are there? Say for example the Laois game in 3 weeks time in Tullamore.....how many 'supporters' won't travel to this game because of the venue? Is it 50? Is it 100? Is it 500? Perhaps its 2000? I'm not being smart here, I honestly don't know the figure. Can anybody put a figure on it? We keep hearing their would be more at the games in Birr but nobody will put their neck out and tell us approximately how many more.
From 2001 to 2007 when Offaly were not successful but were playing league games in Birr I can't remember too many games with huge crowds at them?
Anyways lads I'm saying no more on it...lets look forward to the games regardless where they are played (or not played as the case may be).

You can count me for one who won't go to Tullamore to watch a league game. I know many others like me, the penny may eventually drop as I gather attendnces are poor. I also strongly feel that we are almost giving up home advantage in minor and u21 games as no atmosphere is generated there, while the smaller SBP can become quite vociferous. SBP is plenty big for all league games,co finals and even qualifier games against smaller counties

[joe bloggs]

the only ones who want it in tullamore are the people who are 15 or 20 minutes away, not many would bother their arse going to ST.Brendans park if games are switch back. it looks like the hurling clubs

Hmmm a bit like the 'supporters' from the hurling clubs that allegedly won't travel the 15 or 20 minutes to Tullamore at the moment

i'd say there was many a day bracknaghboy you were glad to drive by the blueball on the way to Birr to look at a hurling game or to follow the McCarthy cup on its way down to the square in birr, i'd also bet the men over the county team and the players would also like to see the hurling back in Birr.

Won't bother me in the slightest I've always travelled all over to support Offaly teams and will continue to do so. One thing that intrigues me and many others is who are all these 'supporters' that won't travel to Tullamore to support the hurlers? How many of them are there? Say for example the Laois game in 3 weeks time in Tullamore.....how many 'supporters' won't travel to this game because of the venue? Is it 50? Is it 100? Is it 500? Perhaps its 2000? I'm not being smart here, I honestly don't know the figure. Can anybody put a figure on it? We keep hearing their would be more at the games in Birr but nobody will put their neck out and tell us approximately how many more.
From 2001 to 2007 when Offaly were not successful but were playing league games in Birr I can't remember too many games with huge crowds at them?
Anyways lads I'm saying no more on it...lets look forward to the games regardless where they are played (or not played as the case may be).

You can count me for one who won't go to Tullamore to watch a league game. I know many others like me, the penny may eventually drop as I gather attendnces are poor. I also strongly feel that we are almost giving up home advantage in minor and u21 games as no atmosphere is generated there, while the smaller SBP can become quite vociferous. SBP is plenty big for all league games,co finals and even qualifier games against smaller counties