SFC Qualifier Draw - Offaly vs Tyrone

[Kevin]

Taken from Hoganstand...

This says a lot.

Granted its only one Tyrone player's opinion (comments regarding Offaly), but others are certainly thinking the same thing.

Hard to take offense.

He called it as he saw it.

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=196243

McMahon not surprised by Rossies' resolve
09 July 2013

Tyrone's Joe McMahon. INPHOJoe McMahon knew full well that Roscommon would put it up to Tyrone.

The O'Neill County escaped from Dr Hyde Park with a two-point win in their Round Two SF Qualifier on Saturday night and centre back McMahon says the hosts' steely display was no surprise:

"I definitely wasn't surprised at Rocsommon's performance," the Omagh clubman says in The Irish News. "We knew Roscommon would come out fighting after their defeat to Mayo.

"When you take the scenic route, the games come thick and fast and we are trying to work on a few things.

"We started well against Offaly but we broke through tackles too easily and it wasn't the test we wanted.

"We knew about Roscommon's physicality. The Offaly game wasn't what we were looking for in terms of preparation; this match was much more beneficial.

"It will set us up better for future games."
- See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.a ... YovJN.dpuf

[Ross Ranger]

Hi neighbours, long time reader and after the last few posts i think it's time for me to sign up.

Firstly we (Roscommon) know all about hammerings more often than not it's about the team giving up and dropping the heads after going down by a few points. That happened to Offaly v Tyrone and us against Mayo but we didn't allow it to happen last Saturday.

We are ahead of Offaly but not by much i agree with the above post we'll be pushing for promotion next year while Offaly fighting off relegation. In regards to Loneshark

1) Connacht underage football is very strong at the moment, only Leitrim are stuggling to cope. Sligo aren't a poor team as you suggest they have been doing very well at schools level (even better than us) and last year Mayo only beat them by 3 points in MacHale park the same Mayo side were unlucky not to reach the All Ireland final. We are going for three in row when you consider how strong Mayo/Galway are and the pick they have compared to us it will be remarkable achievement if we pull it off.

2) Of course we would think we should have won. Galway goal was blunder from our keeper, we missed two clear goal chances ourselves and our best forward for sent off not to mention all the wides we kicked when well on top. Galway rode their luck to bring that game into extra time no doubt about it.

3) Brigids are on the road non-stop for the last three years, it's been good for them however that success hasn't helped the county team. Peter Domican one of our best defenders chose to take a break away from football Cathal Hugh,two Dolans etc were also asked into the panel but chose to also take a break and i think the two Kilbrides should have done likewise.
Mannion around 33 now is playing out time on county career and will be replaced by Cathal Shine in midfield.

4) Don't know what more to be said here other than when the offaly players were going to college how many were getting selected for their colleges? of the 20 we used last saturday 8 has won Sigerson cup medals.


Finally Offaly like ourselves are proud GAA county and i would love to see you rise again chin up guys and all the best of luck to you.

[Lone Shark]

Welcome aboard Ross Ranger - delighted to have the other perspective. I think we're largely in agreement on a lot of things, not least the relative standings of the various senior teams and the likely state of play in NFL3 next year. However, I'd still be largely of the view that while Roscommon have been very decent in recent years at underage level and they've certainly outperformed us, but that still doesn't change the fact that as a general rule Connacht football doesn't impress me that much - there's little or no depth there.

Just on those points again:

(1) If you start bringing schools into it, Connacht is a holy show. Outside of Jarlaths it's shocking - I'd say there were about six schools in Leinster that would have been at least as good as Castlebar if not better, while a championship where only seven schools play "A" is very poor - and only three or four of those are competitive. Admittedly Leinster has a lot of uncompetitive "A" schools as well, but there still are 10-12 decent ones. As for saying that Sligo were decent - on what basis, in the name of God??? They got well beaten in the championship, they've won nothing for years, they had a decent run at B but that's a very ordinary standard. In challenge matches - admittedly not a good form guide, but the best we have - they were hockeyed by some fair middling teams.

Even on underage generally - there are three counties that are anything other than terrible - so each year, two out of three get into the last eight. You can't argue otherwise - the minor final in Connacht has been some combo of Gal/MO/Ros for twelve years in a row now. Once there, based on records over the last five or six years, Connacht sides are on a par with Leinster, a bit better than Munster and a bit worse than Ulster. I'm not trying to say that ye're good teams aren't good - but quite often ye've to do nothing to get into the last eight. Witness this year for example - for Offaly to get there, we would have had to beat Meath, then Kildare, then Dublin. Ye had to beat Sligo - it's not comparing like with like.

(2) Missed goal chances and keeper mistakes are part of football. If we apply that logic, Kildare were the better team against Galway too and should have beaten Galway out the gate. Roscommon were in a position to win and couldn't keep Galway from scoring three late points - they had the winning of the game and couldn't do it. Same as us against Laois - we'd be odds on favourites the next day, but we threw in two soft goals and so we lost. That's on us, it's not hard luck.

(3) I rate Domican hugely. However while St Brigids could easily supply seven or eight panellists to Roscommon, you could argue that few, if any, are real difference makers. Domican yes, Mannion maybe. No-one else would be a significant improvement on what was out there against Tyrone. I'm not saying it to denigrate Brigids - anything but - I've immense respect for them, all the more now that I've got to know the club very well. However St Brigids success is not a pointer to say that Roscommon are way better than Offaly.

(4) Going through the Offaly team, to my knowledge there would be four or five Sigerson medals there but you are correct in saying that we haven't done as well at that level. However while that aspect of it would bother me a little, I don't think it's necessarily a pointer to a huge difference in calibre of player - merely that Roscommon have had slightly better minor teams and they've had a lot more shop window, due to the aforementioned situation of getting into the last eight more often than not. I don't think that it alters my point that Roscommon have the better players in the 20-25 age group, but we'd have a slight edge in the older category which would level things a bit.

[Ross Ranger]

Thanks for welcome

1) Not Connachts fault that it happens to be smaller than Leinster,Ulster would be better to compare it Munster where you have Kerry,Cork,Tipp going for honours at underage level the last few years. Last year we had to beat Galway in Tuam and the year before we had to beat Mayo in Castlebar so i don't agree we do nothing to reach the last eight.

Sligo gave a good account of themselves against us and played the whole 2nd half with 14 and while B schools level might not be the highest standard it still helped us with Roscommon CBS,Strokestown etc. St. Gerald's Mayo won A level Connacht this year however before that Summerhill Sligo reached three Connacht finals in a row and were unlucky not to win a few of them.

Sligo minors don't use school players during the minor league when they got those 8 players back they were going well in challenge games having beaten Donegal,Tyrone etc before they played us. Sligo are very close to making a breakthrough at underage level though it won't be easy when Mayo,Galway and ourselves remain strong.

2) Kildare only kicked poor wides a different kind of luck Galway had against us. Read any honest Galway view after the Connacht final they would have said likewise but hey you need a bit of luck to win any All Ireland.

(3) The two Kilbrides would. Ian is only back for injury and i think you are underrating him while Senan clearly needs a rest he caused Tyrone plenty of problems in 2011 though we were wide open at the back that day. 21 year old Ronan Stack and Darragh Donnelly currently injured will be closer to the starting 15 next year and will be big additions.

(4) Our experienced players are the Kilbrides,Finneran,Cregg,Sean McDermott,Mannion the rest are 25,24 or under so you can make your own mind up if you think Offaly have better older players or not.

[Lone Shark]

(1) Not saying it's Connacht's fault, but the simple fact of the matter is that one year in three, Ros, Galway or Mayo have a bye into the last eight to all intents and purposes. This year it was ye, last year Mayo, previously Galway. Even on the other years the most ye have to do is win one game. Offaly won one tough game this year and all we got out of it was a place in the last eight of Leinster. That's not meant as a criticism or a whinge, just a statement of fact. Usually the best team in Connacht wins Connacht, the best team in Leinster wins Leinster and the best team in Ireland wins the All Ireland. We were way inferior to Kildare so we wouldn't have won Leinster either way.

However measuring Sligo by saying that Summerhill reached Connacht finals, or Attractas reached B finals, is like saying that Antrim are Liam McCarthy contenders because they went well in the Ulster championship. The standard is miles below that in the other provinces, as evidenced by the fact that outside of Jarlaths, you've to go back nearly twenty years to find the last Connacht school to win an All Ireland semi-final and nearly fifty years to find the last one that won. I don't doubt that Roscommon will give a good account of themselves on Sunday week and they won't be a soft touch in the All Ireland series either, but this defence of Sligo is baffling.

(2) Fair enough. I was there in Roscommon company and I kept my counsel afterwards, but I saw two quite even teams, both of which had good players, but one of which was able to deliver at the crunch. That's just an opinion though.

(3) If I'm not mistaken, David O'Gara replaced Ian Kilbride. I'd call them much of a muchness - good, capable footballers, but neither is going to be a game changer at the highest level. Senan is a different kettle of fish but at some point you have to wonder why he hasn't delivered at county level. I personally think that his lack of pace is very hard to compensate for at the highest level, whereas at club level he'll get on the ball and when he does, he'll score.

Put it this way - if Senan is the type of player that's a game changer at county level, Evans wouldn't have waited until the 65th minute to bring him on.

(4) Didn't realise Cregg and McDermott were that old - I had them for around 25 as well. That's a pity, they're genuine class acts the pair, probably the first two guys I'd want to rob if I could plunder the county for potential Offaly players.

Moot point anyway. Next year's league will tell the real story. Always entertaining talking about these things though.

[Ross Ranger]

Not really baffling. If you don't want to take schools level in account how about u-16s level where Sligo have been very competitive, they won a Fr Manning cup and reached a few Ted Webb cup finals. Sligo minors have improved they have got close to Galway,Mayo and ourselves in recent years. Leitrim haven't got within an asses roar of the top sides in Connacht.

Kevin Higgins came on for Ian Kilbride and as Kevin McStay would say Higgins,O'Gara won us loads of primary possession in the final 15 mins. Ian would be seen as leader number 6 or 7 but the Daly's will secure those spots in the years ahead.

I watched Senan in two recent club games was held scoreless in one of them the lad badly needs a rest. He's one of those players you think lacks pace but he has a good turn of speed. St Brigids are confident team that probably build the team around him it's the opposite with Roscommon. Cathal Cregg is 26 Sean McDermott 29 they have a few years left yet.

Anyway that's my lot i'll bore you Offaly lads going on about Roscommon,Sligo. Looking forward to the Roscommon v Offaly Div 3 game next year it should be a feisty game.

[True Red]

As a young chap I loved going to Offaly football championship matches. League was only league but championship was the bottom line. Travelling with my father and brother, we would head over to Tullamore, Portlaoise, Navan etc and my excitement would be at fever pitch. Granted Offaly in the early to mid 90’s weren’t exactly playing champagne football and the results weren’t often that great. But you knew travelling over that Offaly would certainly give as good as they got in the physical stakes and it would only be better footballers that would beat us, not a better attitude.

At that time most Offaly sides had an unquenchable thirst to go out and absolutely die for the jersey. They were representing, first & foremost, themselves and their family. After that came the club that nurtured and honed their talent from the time they entered the local field. Next, came the players and management that they togged out with and for. Lastly, they represented the jersey of the county of Offaly and by extension, us.

A county that has a serious tradition of championship football built up over decades of admittedly, mostly failure in terms of trophies, but always of been a county that never gave in, no matter who they were playing. A county who feared no-one. As a people we loved been the ones to upset the form book and have a slap at the established counties.

From where I was watching it seemed that when these guys put on that Offaly jersey, it almost supercharged them, and you could see it in them. The look of determination on the faces of these players, you knew they weren’t prepared to take second place. As I alluded to already, the attitude was always spot on. Sadly, in the last few years this attitude hasn’t been present.

2013 Qualifier Rnd 1 Offaly 0-8 Tyrone 1-27
2012 Leinster Offaly 0-6 Kildare 0-19
2011 Leinster Offaly 0-8 Wexford 2-16
2010 Leinster Offaly 2-7 Meath 1-20
2008 Qualifier Rnd 4 Offaly 2-10 Down 5-19
2008 Quarter Offaly 1-8 Westmeath 2-11

Using the excellent results searcher function of this website I have highlighted the results that have blighted the Offaly footballers for the last 6 years. Some of those games were horror shows, and to be honest I don’t know how some of the players came back year after year after those beatings.

I don’t mind been beaten by a better team of footballers. That is to be expected. But to be beaten by some of the margins that Offaly have beaten by in the past few years is beyond credence. I don’t believe the players or management set out to beaten by these amounts but by God surely there is something they could have done to keep the score down. The most recent Championship outing in Tullamore was another of these mauling’s. Sickening to watch and I’d imagine absolutely awful to play in. I felt sorry for the guys that togged out for the match but I also held them responsible for the result which further tarnishes the jersey. Who else is there to blame?

In the last few days we have seen how what I would deem as an ordinary set of Roscommon footballers put it up to a top 6 side like Tyrone. In doing so they gave themselves and their supporters something to cling to for next year. They were competitive and stuck it to the O’Neill county at every opportunity.

I suppose the question on everyone’s minds is where do we go from here? Ultimately, as supporters we don’t have the answer to that. The only people that do have the answer are the players that will be involved and the management team that is over them. They have to decide that playing for Offaly isn’t just something to do at the weekend, it is a lifestyle choice. And I know players will come out and say they are devoting themselves to the county team. From where I stand I can’t see that. Some guys are, but collectively there is something amiss.

A recent coach of mine once told us ‘If playing serious football was easy, everyone would be playing it’

It’s not easy, it’s tough and outside of professional sport on this island, it’s the toughest thing you can do. The rewards though are immense and the goodwill that could be generated if these boys started to win a few championship matches would be palpable.

Personally,I am just sick of watching Offaly losing.I can imagine the players involved are the same.

What I would hope for in the next year or so is that Offaly get back to been competitive in championship matches. That, to my eyes, would be a step in the right direction.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Fair post True Red
Atitudes need to change big time. PLayers and management must learn from this debacle and ensure that they are never part of it again, be it walk away or work harder, smarter.

[My Left Foot]

Personally,I am just sick of watching Offaly losing

Couldn't have put it better True Red

[SearingDrive]

Very good post, True Red. I can empathise with that, can we put the Tyrone debacle behind us, and ensure a result like that never happens to an Offaly team.
We have a tough Div.3 league ahead, our immediate priority is to avoid relegation.

As a young chap I loved going to Offaly football championship matches. League was only league but championship was the bottom line. Travelling with my father and brother, we would head over to Tullamore, Portlaoise, Navan etc and my excitement would be at fever pitch. Granted Offaly in the early to mid 90’s weren’t exactly playing champagne football and the results weren’t often that great. But you knew travelling over that Offaly would certainly give as good as they got in the physical stakes and it would only be better footballers that would beat us, not a better attitude.

At that time most Offaly sides had an unquenchable thirst to go out and absolutely die for the jersey. They were representing, first & foremost, themselves and their family. After that came the club that nurtured and honed their talent from the time they entered the local field. Next, came the players and management that they togged out with and for. Lastly, they represented the jersey of the county of Offaly and by extension, us.

A county that has a serious tradition of championship football built up over decades of admittedly, mostly failure in terms of trophies, but always of been a county that never gave in, no matter who they were playing. A county who feared no-one. As a people we loved been the ones to upset the form book and have a slap at the established counties.

From where I was watching it seemed that when these guys put on that Offaly jersey, it almost supercharged them, and you could see it in them. The look of determination on the faces of these players, you knew they weren’t prepared to take second place. As I alluded to already, the attitude was always spot on. Sadly, in the last few years this attitude hasn’t been present.

2013 Qualifier Rnd 1 Offaly 0-8 Tyrone 1-27
2012 Leinster Offaly 0-6 Kildare 0-19
2011 Leinster Offaly 0-8 Wexford 2-16
2010 Leinster Offaly 2-7 Meath 1-20
2008 Qualifier Rnd 4 Offaly 2-10 Down 5-19
2008 Quarter Offaly 1-8 Westmeath 2-11

Using the excellent results searcher function of this website I have highlighted the results that have blighted the Offaly footballers for the last 6 years. Some of those games were horror shows, and to be honest I don’t know how some of the players came back year after year after those beatings.

I don’t mind been beaten by a better team of footballers. That is to be expected. But to be beaten by some of the margins that Offaly have beaten by in the past few years is beyond credence. I don’t believe the players or management set out to beaten by these amounts but by God surely there is something they could have done to keep the score down. The most recent Championship outing in Tullamore was another of these mauling’s. Sickening to watch and I’d imagine absolutely awful to play in. I felt sorry for the guys that togged out for the match but I also held them responsible for the result which further tarnishes the jersey. Who else is there to blame?

In the last few days we have seen how what I would deem as an ordinary set of Roscommon footballers put it up to a top 6 side like Tyrone. In doing so they gave themselves and their supporters something to cling to for next year. They were competitive and stuck it to the O’Neill county at every opportunity.

I suppose the question on everyone’s minds is where do we go from here? Ultimately, as supporters we don’t have the answer to that. The only people that do have the answer are the players that will be involved and the management team that is over them. They have to decide that playing for Offaly isn’t just something to do at the weekend, it is a lifestyle choice. And I know players will come out and say they are devoting themselves to the county team. From where I stand I can’t see that. Some guys are, but collectively there is something amiss.

A recent coach of mine once told us ‘If playing serious football was easy, everyone would be playing it’

It’s not easy, it’s tough and outside of professional sport on this island, it’s the toughest thing you can do. The rewards though are immense and the goodwill that could be generated if these boys started to win a few championship matches would be palpable.

Personally,I am just sick of watching Offaly losing.I can imagine the players involved are the same.

What I would hope for in the next year or so is that Offaly get back to been competitive in championship matches. That, to my eyes, would be a step in the right direction.

[Daleamar]

Well said True Red,

But wasnt this the same thing we were talking about at the end of last year? (And perhaps the year before).

The aims;

Get out of division 4? They/we got out of it, not too many good performances though (not in Tullamore anyway). It seems we play better away from O'Connor park.

Put it up to Kildare - They/we were closer, we were slightly better (some players battled hard), but a lot of it was Kildare playing poorly imo.

Win a game or 2 in the qualifiers - Pride was all we could hope for after getting Tyrone......

To me this year was about getting pride back in the whole set-up and entice players back to play - There was some pride in getting out of division 4 (some played well in Croker too). Some pride in getting close to Kildare.

Ultimately though, imo, the good early work was undone by the awful Tyrone performance. Add to that all the players who either left the panel or were thrown off and it was another poor year. I cant see why those players that wouldnt play this year would play next year. So I cant see the progression.

And I'm not talking about the gameplan we implemented either. All this talk of they were 5 years stronger than us blah blah blah. Gulf of strength doesnt add up to a 22 point defeat.

[joe bloggs]

Well said True Red,



The aims;

Get out of division 4? They/we got out of it, not too many good performances though (not in Tullamore anyway). It seems we play better away from O'Connor Park

Time to move the games to Birr!

[Daleamar]

Time to move the games to Birr!

The atmosphere in O'Connor park is non existant. (I wasnt at the kk game)

[Kevin]

Amid all the gloom there is always hope, even if it is hard to see.

In 2011 Monaghan was well beaten and knocked out of the qualifiers by a team that was soon thereafter rated as the worst in Ireland.

No one needs to be reminded who ran all over them that day 2 years ago.

Now they have the audacity to beat the defending Ulster and All-Ireland Champions by nearly double scores.

Don't they know their place??!! Disgraceful.

[Sharp Eye]

Having watched a number of players who were listed as subs against Tyrone and Shane Dooley in the recent weekend's football championship games, Emmet Mc Donnell had little choice but to introduce the hurlers in an effort to improve a seriously weakened panel.