o byrne cup vs kildare

[gearbag]

I never was so embarrassed as i was today in newbridge, it has to be the worst offaly team i ever seen the only players worth holding on to ken casey,richie dalton,kevin meehan,ross brady,darby,mcconway,pender,derek kelly,smith the rest you could put a blanket over need to bring back alan mcnamee,shane sullivan,anton sullivan,scot brady,john renolds,tomas deehan,karol slattery,mcmanus, and then there's other good players in the county that don't get a look in sean casey croghan david brady ballyfore bracken raheen jimmy coghlan doon offaly manger has to get his finger out or no one will want to play with offaly or go and watch them.

[jimbob17]

while it may have been very hard to watch today, i still feel that OY are taking the right approach in freshing the whole scene up and going for younger players. While some of those mentioned should be involved, the facts are that some of the guys mentioned were asked in and declined because they couldnt give the committment. Mac in fairness may have something to offer but we are going no place if we are relying on a 36 yr old so i think its no harm that he has retired. I still think Karl Slattery should have stayed on, and Deehan should make himself available and train. Niall Mac and Anton will hopefully be back for the league and that should add something to the forwards. Lets not forget that the lilies are way ahead of OY at the moment. We struggled to beat a depleted Westmeath the last day so nobody should be getting carried away.

A lot of hard work needs to be done to build up OY senior football, and needs to be supported by the county board in relation to experienced and professional set ups at minor and 21 level so that fellas are ready for senior when they are 22. Kildare have done serious work with their players at these levels in the last 4/5 years and are therefore properly conditioned when they get to 22. In OY, this is not the case and players only get their first experience of serious training from when they make a senior panel which is too late. Look at the dublin hurlers and the strides they have made recently. That has been preceded by serious work with professional support structures at minor and 21 level, ditto Tyrone football amongst many other examples.

In OY the old boys club dictate who gets the key underage jobs where often players are not improved, leaving the seniors to try and bridge the gaps that other counties are filling at 21 level. Kildare have a squad of 45 approx doing serious work with a second team operating as a development squad and competing in the junior championship. Cork are doing something similar with competition to make the senior squad from junior and 21 panels. This doesnt exist in OY because of a lack of foresight and some penny pinching on the co boards part. Until issues like this are sorted out by the co board, OY football will always stay in the lower echelons as they currently operate with the likes of Carlow Longford, louth and westmeath and wicklow their peers in Leinster with the likes of Wexford and meath a step ahead plus Dubs, and kildare a step ahead again.

Today was very disappointing obviously but it is a clear indication of how far behind the top level we really are. If things are done correctly like they are in the successful counties, then and only then will we return to being more competitive with the teams in and around the top eight in the country.

[Truth as i see it]

I never was so embarrassed as i was today in newbridge, it has to be the worst offaly team i ever seen the only players worth holding on to ken casey,richie dalton,kevin meehan,ross brady,darby,mcconway,pender,derek kelly,smith the rest you could put a blanket over need to bring back alan mcnamee,shane sullivan,anton sullivan,scot brady,john renolds,tomas deehan,karol slattery,mcmanus, and then there's other good players in the county that don't get a look in sean casey croghan david brady ballyfore bracken raheen jimmy coghlan doon offaly manger has to get his finger out or no one will want to play with offaly or go and watch them.

i had a feeling there would be a knee jerk reaction from some supporters so its no surprise, this was always going to be on the cards as Kildare have a seasoned bunch of players that are operating at higher level both in fitness as we saw today and squad depth so even if they had front line players missing they were always going to have players of a good standard coming in.
We on the other hand are just starting off with a new manager and a new bunch of players, besides i think a little bit of perspective here is in order, its only the O' Byrne cup and its supposed to be about experimentation

Plus Kildare's fitness levels are at Olympic levels as is a given with any northern manager, remember they did miss a few wide's today and a few goal chances so they pretty much operate out of the big on fitness, not on skills school of thought, that's why Mageeney (don't have time to check the spelling) was so critical of the players in their last game because of their lack of finishing ability.

When you add the fact that the side (ours) are so far behind in the fitness stakes it was always going to be a big ask for the team to compete in this game.

Remember two that half the management team wasn't there to see the team play so my guess is that much like going to the dentist to get that route canal fixed , the selectors sent out the team and just hoped for the best today.

(bet Westmeath are glad they got beat last weekend)

But believe it or not i do think there is one positive that came out of today, time and time again the defense showed itself to be solid at least in defending goal attempts and Brian Darby has to take the honours here for the amount of times he dispossessed the man in possession and in the back line we have been very loose over the past number of years

However i will say that i hope when Cooney comes back from Nambia he brings a plan B with him, Throwing the ball long to Willie or Alan Mulhall may work against a week Westmeath side but as we found out today it won't work against an organized side in division 2 and it certainly will not work against division 1 sides.
I hope that the players players don't drop their heads after today's result as today was more about the gulf in fitness levels rather than ability and i hope the management take the lessons from today and apply them over the next few weeks.

Those lessons to my mind are:

- A required high level of fitness to allow the team to compete with the top tier teams
- Have a plan B and C when plan A Doesn't work
- build on the defensive improvement shown today

By the way gear bag i wouldn't bother with Scott Brady (too slow) Ciaran Mcmanus and Slattery are retired (get over it) Deehan and Renolds are only interested in drinking and playing some football on the side so no thank you and Anton Sullivan is playing for Athlone IT, the rest i couldn't comment on as i haven't seen them play

[SearingDrive]

I never thought Offaly would win today, the scale of the defeat was vey disappointing. Offaly were 10 points down at half time with the wind!. 4 points were scored in the second half, to 7 from Kildare, who had eased off then.
Kildare were bigger, fitter, and better, but as posters said, Kildare are much further ahead of us in those areas. Some of the players lining out today, may not be around come championship, or even the league. Offaly's defence did keep a second clean sheet, but they were overworked for the whole game.
The problem was up front where Kildare seemed to have no problem coping with Offaly' sporadic attacks.
There are a number of players who can return to make a difference,Brian Allen, Brian Connor, Niall McNamee, Anton Sullivan, to name a few.Think we need a full back too.
Offaly's aim for 2012 should be promotion from Division3 which requires a lot of fitness work, and football tactics, the championship may be a bridge too far this year. Gerry Cooney has a big task ahead of him, all Offaly supporters hope he succeds.

[kingscounty]

if the team that played today will be the bulk of the panel for the league then i can see offaly getting it very hard to win any games in the league. i can see that the manager wants to bring in new lads and build a team but i think we need to hold onto some of the older lads to help ease the younger lads into the team. its a big ask for young lads to come onto a county team and expect them to deliver right away. we are lacking in alot of positions on the team, we need to get 2 decent midfielders for a start who can win ball and feed good ball into the forwards. i would like to see alan macnamee back on the panel at least , a big man who can win ball and is not afraid to get stuck in and he is only about 30 or 31. the forward line is lacking bad, we need a centre forward who can also win kick outs and score. niall mac,anton, bernard allen will all help the cause hugely , i would like to see reynolds and slattery back on the panel and allen from gracefield if he is available. the result today can act as a wake up call and it tells the players and management just how far off the pace they are if they want to compete with the big boys, there would be no sweeter way to beat kildare in the first round of the championship if we can get our act together a big ask but offaly are well known to cause an upset or two.

[bracknaghboy]

Theres no point getting upset about the result or the scoreline or no score for the first 35mins! Offaly were never going to trouble Kildare today. However the gap between the two sides was as wide as it could possibly be. Kildare are 4 years ahead of us and there simply no chance that gap can be closed between now and June for the championship opener. What struck me was the kildare players are all so athlethic, shoulders back and chests out pounding up and down the pitch. Our lads were slumped and looked like they were running in quicksand. Closed season my arse....Kildare have been training 4 nights a week for the last 4 months!
As for the game itself, well i'm a fan of the quick long ball into the forwards but when theres no forwards in there it makes no sense. Mulhall at full forward needs support so he looked lost at times today, with help up there he might work but he's very slow. Pender was roasted at times but he stuck to the task in fairness and never gave up which is great to see. Dalton was brought back to defend and pulled out of tackle after tackle which is not good for a captain and man now seen as a leader of this team. I'm still not convinced about Guilfoylend. Normally teams would not mind losing this type fixture and would hope to ambush their opponents in the summer. This is not going to happen I'm afraid. It would be a miracle if we turn these crowd over in Portlaoise.

[Plain of the Herbs]

So of an experimental lineout in the O'Byrne Cup, nine of the 15 are "worth holding on to". That's a good ratio, in my book.

I never was so embarrassed as i was today in newbridge, it has to be the worst offaly team i ever seen the only players worth holding on to ken casey,richie dalton,kevin meehan,ross brady,darby,mcconway,pender,derek kelly,smith the rest you could put a blanket over need to bring back alan mcnamee,shane sullivan,anton sullivan,scot brady,john renolds,tomas deehan,karol slattery,mcmanus, and then there's other good players in the county that don't get a look in sean casey croghan david brady ballyfore bracken raheen jimmy coghlan doon offaly manger has to get his finger out or no one will want to play with offaly or go and watch them.

[summerindublin]

So of an experimental lineout in the O'Byrne Cup, nine of the 15 are "worth holding on to". That's a good ratio, in my book.

Jesus, what match were you at, name the nine that are worth holding on to, as I see it the goalie and maybe 4 of the backs, midfield was brutal and as for the forwards, we did'nt have any. It was like watching a good senior team playing a bad very unfit minor team. We are so far off the mark its not funny any more.

[Bord na Mona man]

As has been pointed out, the contrast in size and physique between the two sides was marked. Offaly looked like the Irish International Rules teams squaring up to the Australians.

First half with the wind 10-0 and Offaly lucky to be 0 as the phrase goes. The wind at Offaly's back only served to increase the urgency with which Offaly wastefully kicked away possession. The plan may well have been drop it in to Alan Mulhall on the square, but I don't recall any ball dropping within 10 metres of where he was positioned. Most kicks landed in a no man's land about 30 metres out where a couple of spare Kildare backs were happy to mop up. Anything close to a 50-50 ball was a Kildare ball, practically all the kickouts were won by Kildare.

Kildare played a far tighter and measured game into the wind. When they got possession, they got numbers forward quickly, cutting through Offaly fairly easily and picking off their scores. Their power and fitness was immense. Offaly players rarely managed to lay a glove on an incoming ball carrier.

Had Kildare kept their foot on the pedal for the 2nd half they could easily have recorded a 20 point win. Offaly rallied somewhat and Kildare lost focus. Up until the last 30 seconds of the game, the 2nd half score was 5-4 to Kildare.

Had the likes of Scott Brady, Joe Quinn, Brian Connor and Ciaran Mc lined out there would have been a bit more physical presence, leadership and shape to the performance and a more even contest. But obviously the management are looking at the longer term. Defeats like this are to be expected with the squad as it is. Whether Offaly emerge out of transition with a better product is anyone's guess.

January trimmings where Offaly get blown out of it by physically bigger and harder trained teams are becoming an annual occurrence. It usually takes until Spring time before Offaly start to shed the rust.

Kildare in June - A drier and quicker pitch will lessen the impact of Kildare's physical dominance. Bring back in blue chip forwards like Niall Mc and Anton Sullivan and the scoreboard will be kept busier. But the gap between the sides is immense right now.

Offaly need to forget the Pat Spillane guff about how the game should be about "long kick-pehsses". A team as small as ours who will struggle to win long balls. We need to employ much more of a tighter running game, like Tyrone did with a similarly vertically challenged side. This would need a quantum leap in the off the ball work-rate of every player though.

[bogboy]

Will you forget about Ciaran mac scott brady and brian connor? Ciaran mac ive never once seen him use his physical presence , scott brady is too slow at this level and brian connor will not commit!!!The 3 lads are finished and dont need to be mentioned anymore.We have what we had yesterday plus niall mc,young bernard allen,sullivan bros,niall darby,john reynolds to come back. These lads should all start in my opinion and will stengthen the team and free up other players who were playing out of position yesterday. Offaly were playing the fittest team in the country at the moment and a team who are together 5 years. They will play the all ireland champions next and there will be a kick of a ball in it at most. That is the level where they are at!!!Its the 3rd week of january and the lads are only back a few weeks and working really hard. You wil see a fitter faster and stronger Offaly team by the start of the league.

[townman]

Theres no point getting upset about the result or the scoreline or no score for the first 35mins! Offaly were never going to trouble Kildare today. However the gap between the two sides was as wide as it could possibly be. Kildare are 4 years ahead of us and there simply no chance that gap can be closed between now and June for the championship opener. What struck me was the kildare players are all so athlethic, shoulders back and chests out pounding up and down the pitch. Our lads were slumped and looked like they were running in quicksand. Closed season my arse....Kildare have been training 4 nights a week for the last 4 months!
As for the game itself, well i'm a fan of the quick long ball into the forwards but when theres no forwards in there it makes no sense. Mulhall at full forward needs support so he looked lost at times today, with help up there he might work but he's very slow. Pender was roasted at times but he stuck to the task in fairness and never gave up which is great to see. Dalton was brought back to defend and pulled out of tackle after tackle which is not good for a captain and man now seen as a leader of this team. I'm still not convinced about Guilfoylend. Normally teams would not mind losing this type fixture and would hope to ambush their opponents in the summer. This is not going to happen I'm afraid. It would be a miracle if we turn these crowd over in Portlaoise.

just a few points bracknaghboy besides James Gallagher,Lorcan Hiney, Aidan Keenaghan most of that offaly team have been around the panel over the last few years
Willie & alan Mulhall and Casey are there 3 years so this 4 years ahead of us i don't get wasn't at the game but kildare must of had lads that are new to.

i know theres a few to come back in but beside Niall Mc there is not really any player out there that would stand out at county level.
i think if you look at the club championship in offaly this year was poor enough games so besides bring players that are over the hill
or players that don't give a sh.t about the county jersey back in, there is not alot that Cooney can do.

it will take time but untill offaly football get out of Division 3 and the club teams do well in leinster club football and a good club team that will back bone the county team
we will stay in division 3 or down to 4 and stay year's behind kildare and the kerry and Dubs of this world.

[llkj]

Family member was at the game yesterday and speaking to him after, it was pretty clear that he had just witnessed 2 teams that were on a completely different level than one another in every aspect of the game. Obviously on the day, failing to score for the entire first half is terrible and there is no other word for it. The more worrying thing is that a few years on from our hammering at the hands of Kildare in Portlaoise, where everyone commented about how much stronger/fitter/faster they were than us, that we are still having the very same conversation now.

Also, and please don't see this as a knee jerk reaction to yesterday, it really does bring up the question about the structure of the All-Ireland Championship in Football. Throughout every level in the GAA the teams are grouped to ensure that teams of equal standard play each other. Club level - Senior, Inter, Junior. College level - different cups for different levels. Club and schools Underage - A/B/C levels. Same situation in other sports - the main competition is always split into divisions based on quality (or in NFL a draft system to keep the level playing field).

Even if you take hurling, it is far better served with a 3 tier structure, as teams are playing at their level. If they rise above that, then there is somewhere to go. I would equate the beating Offaly got yesterday in football (13 points) to a 26 point beating in hurling, as I feel that hurling scores often are more reflective of the difference in teams than football. In hurling, Kilkenny would be easily able to beat, say a Carlow, by 26 points, who would in turn be able to beat a Louth by 26 points, so for that reason they don't play each other.

However, all of a sudden, when it comes to County level, everyone needs to get a shot at the title - which, in my opinion, is just wrong and based on fantasy. Don't have time to flesh it all out here now, but I feel that Offaly would be much better served in a 3 tier system in football too - 12 teams in each. I would say they would be in or around the bottom of tier 2/top of tier 3 at the moment and could move up or down from there.
If it was promoted properly and structured well, it would also capture the imagination of the crowds and mean as much to them if they won their level - the same way Cappincur winning meant as much to them as Edenderry winning this year...

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Unfortunately what was witnessed yesterday was the real difference between amateur and professional. However I would not be too downbeat, we have a lot of young lads who played yesterday and will benefit from it.They are only starting the work and hopefully with a manager who I think has a 3 year term they will continue to work right through the year and concentrate on building up the core fitness to come close to where we need to be for this level over the next 2 years. There are a few lads to come back in and these lads need our encouragement and support. The u21s look good and hopefully if they have a good run a few of them will be able to slot in for the end of the league and the championship.
Its disappointing but nit unexpected and as a poster has said the game between them and the Dubs will tell more next Sunday.

[jimbob17]

agree ahlethimoutwithit, this was a very inexperienced bunch. add a few lads that are missing and a few who can sort out if they want to commit and we should be in better shape. the 21 s are training hard and one or two should be in the reckoning from there too. Bernard Allen, niall mac and anton have to come back. Reynolds might also come back and be an option. Scott Brady could do a good job at full back i think if he was given a chance, one of our better players in the last few years and is experienced. Stepen Guing of edenderry will be a serious option and is playing midfield on a NUIG team that is unbeaten this year under John Maughan and will come into the reckoning after the sigerson, as will Johnny Moloney who is also cup tied with this group i think. Brian Connor should also come into it if he decides he wants to commit to a lifestyle of an inter county footballer. 30 strong players training hard with the right attitude and things will certainly improve.

Gerry Cooney has a good track record and was involved the last time OY was anyway successful as a selector in 2006 so surely he knows what he is looking for. The Kildare team among other teams are far fitter even if we had lads around the panel a few years. It Just goes to show the quality of the fitness work that has been done in the past few years, and that was shown up in the last few years championship performances, ie Wexford, Down, Westmeath Limerick etc. We need to support and encourage these younger players rather than knock them at first glance if we are to develop a team that is going to be competitive as a lot of them are just finding their way on the scene.

[DAF]

agree ahlethimoutwithit, this was a very inexperienced bunch. add a few lads that are missing and a few who can sort out if they want to commit and we should be in better shape. the 21 s are training hard and one or two should be in the reckoning from there too. Bernard Allen, niall mac and anton have to come back. Reynolds might also come back and be an option. Scott Brady could do a good job at full back i think if he was given a chance, one of our better players in the last few years and is experienced. Stepen Guing of edenderry will be a serious option and is playing midfield on a NUIG team that is unbeaten this year under John Maughan and will come into the reckoning after the sigerson, as will Johnny Moloney who is also cup tied with this group i think. Brian Connor should also come into it if he decides he wants to commit to a lifestyle of an inter county footballer. 30 strong players training hard with the right attitude and things will certainly improve.

Gerry Cooney has a good track record and was involved the last time OY was anyway successful as a selector in 2006 so surely he knows what he is looking for. The Kildare team among other teams are far fitter even if we had lads around the panel a few years. It Just goes to show the quality of the fitness work that has been done in the past few years, and that was shown up in the last few years championship performances, ie Wexford, Down, Westmeath Limerick etc. We need to support and encourage these younger players rather than knock them at first glance if we are to develop a team that is going to be competitive as a lot of them are just finding their way on the scene.

Tom Cribbens reign and the county boards decision to appoint him has set Offaly back years.The easiest thing an intercounty manager can do is get the team fit it requires zero football knowledge and yet Cribben couldnt manage to do that it was emabarssing in the matches against Westmeath and Wexfrord last year seeing Offaly players dead on their feet by half time.