Championship Odds

[Hyper]

LS
Have you compiled anything yet for both codes? Are you still providing odds for PP? i would be grateful if you could.

[Lone Shark]

I do external consultancy now for PP, which roughly speaking means I give them odds on county stuff, and am on the phone if they want anything. Chances are if you were to go into a PP office and ask, they'd ring me and the following would be roughly what I'd quote.

Alternatively, I'm sure we could find ways of "accomodating" most wagers if people wanted to have an interest.

Football

Rhode 5/4
Tullamore 5/1
Gracefield 7/1
Shamrocks 7/1
St. Brigid's 7/1
Clara 8/1
Ballycumber 12/1
Edenderry 16/1

Hurling

Birr 4/9
Coolderry 5/2
St. Rynaghs 10/1
Ballyskenach 20/1
Kilcormac/Killoughey 25/1
Kinnitty 25/1
Lusmagh 33/1
Shinrone 50/1
Seir Kieran 80/1

100/1 Anyone else.


I'd lay each way 1/2 1-2 on the football as well - not on the hurling obviously.

[Seán Boyle Ó Rathallaigh]

Edenderry are a good price if you are a gambling man!....................Going on recent form and the fact that Edenderry have beaten Ballycumber twice within a week how in the name of jayus can you price them at 12/1

[True Red]

Wholeheartedly agree with SB O'Rathallaigh.Where is the logic in that?Edenderry beat them by 4 points in each game and you still have Ballycumber ahead of the Red's?
Surely the formulating of odds for this years championship should be based on current form?

[Lone Shark]

No inconsistency at all. I said when I was posting up my tips - where I picked Edenderry twice - that Ballycumber were not hugely interested in setting up a clash with Rhode. Edenderry wanted that quarter final - Ballycumber didn't. I've no doubt that if I was doing Ballycumber a dis-service here that one of the Bally contingent would be correcting me, but I'd say deep down they know that the performance they saw from their team the last two outings was not reflective of the side that cruised through their other three group games, albeit letting Bracknagh and Pullough peg them back late on. I still reckon there's feck all between the two sides if they were both playing at 100%, and that's before you factor in the relative difficulty of the two quarter final assignments.

You couldn't back Edenderry at shorter than 3/1 to win next week. That and even money in semi final and final makes them 16/1. Hardly unreasonable about a side that still hasn't beaten any worthwhile opponents that were playing at 100% for a long time now.

Ballycumber on the other hand will be no bigger than 7/4 to beat Brigid's. Hence 12/1.

[BUFFALO]

On a lighter note,I am pleased to announce my first post(hopefully the first of many to come in a long and colourful career).My ability to change the subject and a propensity of not listening to people would make me an ideal candidate for a politician or else a position on the county board!Over and out.

[True Red]

so by your reckoning Ballycumber werent playing at 100% in the Final Group game?Leaving the play-off aside, (where Ballcucumber played several of their vanquished Junior A side from the previous evenings defeat at the hands of Edenderry) it is preposturous of you to suggest that Ballycumber werent trying their hardest to beat Edenderry???!!

They played their full strength side minus the services of corner forward Adrain Kelly who i feel was dropped following an inadequate display against edenderry in a league match 2 weeks prior to the final Group Championship game.other than that every other player was a first teamer.Also if you were at the match you would have noticed that that match was in the melting pot right up to the final 3 mins until Edenderry got the second of their 2 goals to finally seal the deal.From my vantage point it didnt seem that Ballycumber were going out to "deep down" produce a performance which would have got them a handier quarter final against Croghan.

Are we seeing some anti -edenderry bias from the Shark??Maybe the 97 final when Mick Mahon allegedly stole a county final from Ferbane by playing a few minutes overtime when he shouldnt have is manifesting itself in this fine forum? :?:

[Seán Boyle Ó Rathallaigh]

Don't be too hard on Mick Mahon he did give Ferbane a chance to equalise in that game

[Mighty Pair O' Hands]

as an impartial observer, and an attendee at most of the group 3 games this year, I can't really fault lone shark's logic. Bally beat Shannonbridge and Erin Rovers well in the group games - both these teams drew with Edenderry. Given also that Edenderry are playing Rhode then they have to be long odds to get through.

However, with the rivalry that is there, I have a sneaky suspicion that Edenderry will give Rhode socks of it and this game will be closer than you might think. Rhode to win just about. Bally will not survive against Brigids who are my tip to win the title this year.

[Lone Shark]

Also if you were at the match you would have noticed that that match was in the melting pot right up to the final 3 mins until Edenderry got the second of their 2 goals to finally seal the deal.From my vantage point it didnt seem that Ballycumber were going out to "deep down" produce a performance which would have got them a handier quarter final against Croghan.

I wouldn't say that Ballycumber were trying to lose that game - far from it - I've no doubt they went out to win. However I would contend that they were trying to win in the same way they would try to win a league game. They'll do their best, but it won't be the end of the world if they lose. Edenderry are unlike most clubs in Offaly in that they really want to play Rhode - or at least that seems to be the view I get from the one Edenderry guy I know involved and the posters on board here who seem fairly knowledgeable.

Ultimately the recent success of Ulster sides is a testament to the effect of pushing yourself that bit harder and wanting to win that bit more. My belief is that the same thing happened here - I may be wrong, but I've no reason not to believe it.

Are we seeing some anti -edenderry bias from the Shark??Maybe the 97 final when Mick Mahon allegedly stole a county final from Ferbane by playing a few minutes overtime when he shouldnt have is manifesting itself in this fine forum?

How would I be anti-Edenderry because of something a ref who's not from Edenderry did? The truth is in that game Squart played a bit longer than he should have, ye got the goal, and then he played two further minutes looking to give Ferbane a chance because he realised what had happened on looking at his watch. He gave us a handy free to equalise and it was missed. In terms of great GAA robberies, it hardly ranks up there with the worst of them - it was minute or so too long, and the goal was legit. No bias here.

Truth is this site/forum was set up for the greater good and glory of Offaly GAA - my only thing against Edenderry is that for a club with a substantial chunk of Offaly's footballing population under it's wing, it hasn't contributed as much to Offaly county teams as it should have done in recent years. Ferbane is equally culpable, though I would suggest that Ferbane has a little more by way of excuse in that we have half the population roughly while having a thriving hurling area as well - with all respect to ye're junior hurlers who I believe are going well.

Anyway, a bookie who doesn't back up his words with cash is the lowest of the low in my eyes - I posted up 16/1 knowing full well we had a few fervent Edenderry clubmen on this board, and acutely aware that I might have to make good and lay a ton or two at the price myself - which I'm very happy to do. My opinion may be proved right or wrong, but I do genuinely believe in it - and I'm not going to let a refereeing decision from almost a decade ago colour my views where money is involved!

[True Red]

Lone Shark wrote "my only thing against Edenderry is that for a club with a substantial chunk of Offaly's footballing population under it's wing, it hasn't contributed as much to Offaly county teams as it should have done in recent years. Ferbane is equally culpable, though I would suggest that Ferbane has a little more by way of excuse in that we have half the population roughly while having a thriving hurling area as well - with all respect to ye're junior hurlers who I believe are going well. "

On this point you have to take into account that edenderry has 2 very well organised soccer clubs with excellent facilities in each-Edenderry Town FC and Derry Rovers FC. Also Edenderry RFC is the richest club in the town and boast some very good facilities.Without wishing to offer the "foreign games" excuse as the reason Edenderry are not offering more county footballers I would suggest to the Lone Shark that the "substantial chunk of Offaly's footballing population" is not as vast as you would think.All of the above clubs have a good tradition in the town and are well respected.They also have vibrant underage committees who are seriously competeing with the GAA for the hearts and minds of future Red's.

However to place Ballycucumber ahead of Edenderry in the race for the championship seems a bit odd to me especially since Edenderry have beaten them by an aggregate score of 8 points over 2 games. C'est la vie.

Anyway you are correct in saying that Edenderry wanted Rhode.In fact they are probably one of only 2 clubs in the county who would have no fear of them(croghan been the other).Next Saturday nite should be a humdinger with skin and hair most likely flying.In head to head matches since 1998 the tally stands at 2 wins for the Reds,2 wins for Rhode and 2 draws.

Lets just say it will be interesting.

[Lone Shark]

In this day and age, I would imagine most areas have assorted distractions. I played OWL soccer last winter, and it really brought it home to me how every village has a soccer team of some variety - and while the Edenderry clubs are very successful relative to any other Offaly soccer teams, the distraction is always there. Likewise with rugby - I'd say every GAA club in Offaly has players playing with Ballinasloe/Athlone/Tullamore/Portarlington/Roscrea and Edenderry as well.

That you have better organised competition for the interest of young sports enthusiasts is not for debate, but neither is the fact that Edenderry GAA club's catchment area would have a population in the vicinity of 4,000 people. Offaly's total population is around 60,000, of which at most 40,000 would be in what would be considered "football" area. That means that 10% of Offaly's potential footballing playing pool is under the wing of Edenderry club - and I do think ye are underachieving in that respect. If I'm not mistaken ye have just the one senior panellist, and offhand I don't know if ye had any at under 21. Granted at minor ye're well represented by two of our better players, but overall the club is not contributing as much to county success as it could be, and if you genuinely disagree with this then you're selling the club short.

That urban teams in general face more difficulties is undoubted - I'm not sure whether ye consider ye'reselves "urban" or not, but in an Offaly context ye are. That said, ye field 2 adult football teams - the same number as Ballyfore. Ballycumber and Rhode are among those that field three. If ye were just in a period - not unlike ourselves - where there wasn't really any good intercounty standard adult talent that happened to be in the club at the moment, it could be taken for just that. However I think it's poor form Ferbane not having three teams - it's woeful that Edenderry don't. I know lads have plenty of other things to be doing, but even so.

(I can just imagine the fervent response I'm going to get to this before I even hit submit .... )

[mykneehurts]

I think the biggest problem for teams like Ferbane and Edenderry is that while they are going through (relative) slumps a lot of young players will choose the alternatives of rugby and soccer just because they seem to be going better.

There is nothing that can be done about this really. Not to take anything away from the other sports in Rhode but realistically neither the soccer team nor the hurling team are ever going to be chosen over the football team while the club is doing well.

As regards Ferbane I was at the Belmont hurling game the other day and there were more kids at that than there were at any seior football game Ferbane have been involved in over the past three years.

[Lone Shark]

I don't buy this at all. I think kids of 12 years of age might follow success, I think adults who realise that all sport is ever going to be is a pastime play what they feel like playing - or what they will get a game at. Or they will play whatever all the lads around are doing. I know very few lads in their twenties around Doon that are NOT playing junior B. As a result the club is everything to that area, and they are certainly doing very well relative to their size in recent years.

I remember when Ferbane had Junior A and Junior B - I would wonder when the decision was being taken to lose the junior B team, what was done to save it? If numbers were really poor, was there an announcement at training to try and bring lads back in? Was there as little as a notice in the parish bulletin, asking lads to come down and rejoin, get a bit of exercise and get a game? Was there a request up in Belmont to get the junior hurlers come down and kick a bit of ball for the club?

There was none of these things.

I understand that it's easy for an exile like myself up in Dublin complain that these things weren't done, but the truth is that if you have most of the town playing football, it becomes a lot easier retain your dominant position. As things stand Ferbane, former Leinster club champions and winners of the Dowling cup more times than any other field two adult teams, as do Gallen Utd, middling Leinster League soccer team.

To put things in another perspective - I was home for most of last summer, from May, and wanted to join up, as much for a bit of exercise as anything. I was told that the juniors don't train, but "show up" anyway if I wanted to. i.e. sit on the bench because you won't get a chance to show that you might be able to contribute something. (Granted I'm utterly utterly useless, so I probably wouldn't be able to, but then so are most junior players). So I did what any guy who wanted exercise would do - I joined a local OWL soccer team who were actually looking for players, got training twice a week and games on Sundays for their B side.

Kids will always follow what's shiny and new - twas ever thus. Rugby is the in thing at the moment, certainly as we are in the era of the first ever Saran's graduate on a professional contract, another lad heading off to NZ, and plenty of representation on Connacht teams etc. Ferbane can't offer all that, but if they would start by just offering the chance of a run and a game of ball for mere mortals it would be a start.

[True Red]

That you have better organised competition for the interest of young sports enthusiasts is not for debate, but neither is the fact that Edenderry GAA club's catchment area would have a population in the vicinity of 4,000 people. Offaly's total population is around 60,000, of which at most 40,000 would be in what would be considered "football" area. That means that 10% of Offaly's potential footballing playing pool is under the wing of Edenderry club - and I do think ye are underachieving in that respect.

Its a bit much to suggest that Edenderry, which has a population of 4000, has 10% of offaly's playing pool.Last November 60-70 letters were sent out by Edenderry GAA requesting attendance at a meeting to discuss the current year's footballing plans.This Included Senior,Junior Minor and Under 21 players with a fair bit of overlapping on the various teams.45/46 players turned up.These are the cold hard facts.Now,granted as 2005 wore on more minors,juniors turned up for training and matches etc.At a generous estimate Edenderry's adult playing base would be no more than 100 hardy souls.(this include minors) Fact-as yer man says on the Lucozade sport ad.
Now how you can generalise and say that the town of Edenderry has 10% of Offaly's potential footballing pool is beyond me.

I take your point that for such a "big" club we should have more county representation with one senior panelist,no under 21's and 3 minors been a paltry return for a club like Edenderry. But the fact is,the powers that be(i.e Kilmurray & Co) deemed that we only had one senior footballer good enough to make the panel and based on Edenderry's performances in the championship for the last 4 years ye wouldnt be inclined to disagree with them.

However I think it's poor form Ferbane not having three teams - it's woeful that Edenderry don't. I know lads have plenty of other things to be doing, but even so.

For the last number of years on Edenderry's junior A side there has been a lot of "double-jobbing" by players.a third of the side would nominate soccer as their number 1 and would only use GAA as fitness implement during the summer.Consequently when the soccer season is starting back up around this time these fellas would go to pre-season soccer training instead of football.Therefore it is virtually impossible to have meaningful challenge matches and training sessions and there wouldnt be a blessed hope of organising a Junior B side. You describe other sports in other areas "distractions".In Edenderry they are not distractions,they are,for the lads involved,their sport of choice,with GAA always coming second.

I would speculate that for areas like Rhode and ferbane "foreign games" would be seen as always been secondary to GAA and if it came down to choosing between them,GAA would always be the winner.I wouldnt be 100% sure about Ferbane but this is definitely the case in Rhode.