Minor Match yesterday.

[Lone Shark]

(This is as written for the paper - hence the cheesy style - apologies ....)


It’s a hard thing to miss when the Dubs are involved at the business end of the Leinster Championship. The “National” media invariably become local Dublin broadcasters/publications that happen to have additional rural audiences, tickets for Leinster championship games become a scarce commodity, and in almost every town and village in Ireland families that left the capital many years ago happy to settle into a more relaxed provincial lifestyle suddenly rediscover both their Dublin roots and a flag of some sort proclaiming same.

However if you were able to see beyond all that, and you managed to avoid being blinded by the hype of it all, you may have noticed over the weekend a golfer by the name of Tiger Woods securing the British Open championship at St. Andrew’s in Scotland. Tiger wobbled a little on Saturday, but three good days out of four combined with a steady if unspectacular 71 on his “off” day meant he had a bit to spare by the end of the competition. Consistency invariably plays a big part in professional golf. As Tiger himself has once said – “you can’t win a Major Tournament on a Thursday, but you sure can lose it.”

Unfortunately for the Offaly minor footballers, so it was in Croke Park on Sunday. It’s not possible to win a game in the first quarter of an hour, but it is certainly possible to lose it. It was not that the deficit, 1-5 to 0-2, was insurmountable, or that players had got themselves sent off and left the team short handed, but merely that from the off on Sunday, it was plainly obvious which team was used to playing on big days, either with last year’s Leinster Championship winning Laois team, or with the All Ireland colleges champions, Knockbeg College from Carlow. From the opening whistle Laois played the same measured football they kept up throughout, calm and collected on the ball, always choosing to play the right pass at the right time, moving the ball up the field with little or no likelihood of losing possession. Meanwhile Offaly were nervy and unsure of themselves, repeatedly making uncharacteristic errors, in many cases leading to scores. A blocked handpass and a fumbled pick up handed Laois their opening 1-1, and while this Offaly side is nothing if not resolute, and admirably they never ceased in their attempts to peg back that deficit; since winning the ball back from this Laois team was so difficult, that opening spell was the losing of the game. Laois then did all they had to do, which was keep their foot on the pedal the whole way through, which they duly did.

Certainly it will be a difficult week for this minor panel, because they as much as any observer will be aware of how they really failed to put their best foot forward in this game. The never found the rhythm and style they displayed against Meath some weeks ago, and while they left every ounce of spirit they had out on the field, commendably so, it will still hurt this week thinking of how Leinster medals that were there to be had have been handed out to the Laois panel instead. To lose a big game is tough at the best of times – to do so when you have so clearly played below your own potential is devastating.

Unlike Offaly minor football teams previously though, for this team redemption is at hand, in the form of an All Ireland quarter final with Munster Champions Cork. Be under no illusions, this is a daunting challenge certainly, and one that will require the best display ever seen from this bunch of players if it is to be met. Still, if the demons of a bad day at HQ have to be exorcised, one big performance against the Leesiders (and incidentally, favourites for the All Ireland) will put them into an All Ireland semi final and back in Croke Park, where the opportunity will then present itself.

From an Offaly perspective, this loss unfortunately means that we are now in the midst of our longest spell without a Leinster title at any age group or in either code since the 1950’s, when we went seven years between the Leinster junior hurling title of 1953 and the Leinster Senior/Minor football double in 1960. With at least five years due to have passed since our Junior Football crown in 2001 by the earliest possible time when another chance will present itself, it is still further evidence of the lull that Offaly GAA finds itself in at the moment. However Sunday’s display does not change the fact that this is a panel with an abundance of talent, and plenty of potential to make further progress in the All Ireland series. It was unfortunate for our lads on Sunday that Laois seniors had made their decider, and as a result our players were considerably light on support relative to their southerly neighbours. This was unavoidable, but it is up to every Offaly supporter to ensure that this does not happen again and that we have a following at least the equal of the Rebel contingent for the upcoming quarter final, when there will be no such excuse. See you on the terraces.

[Hyper]

Word on the ground is that the game against Cork will be in Limerick on the Bank Holiday Monday

[Barracuda]

I was one of those few offaly ssupporters who went to Croker yesterday.

Yes indeed it was lost and won in the first 15 minutes.
And while Im not one of those who is now going to tell ye why it happened etc, I will however throw in my tuppence worth.

It begs belief why we started that game with the man of the match in the Westmeath game sitting in the subs.
I mean we got hammered in the middle during the first half and all the Management could do is switch around a few players who never were midfielders in the first place. James Gorman has struggled on that team all year! and still got his place ahead of Brady.
Look at the difference Brady made in the 2nd half but as Shark more or less put it - the horse was already out and grazing in the neighbours field by then

Then to take off Flannery- a very noticable worker up front in the first half, James Guinan is a half back and not too bad at that but as a half forward ?- we had Knight and Grehan which we could have switched up to the half forward line for Guinan if we need more flair up there.

Or Treacy straight in to the half forwards would have made more sense.

I'm not saying we would have won this one anyway but I am suggesting that inexperience on the sideline did not help. I cant for the life of me understand why one of the selectors is not up in the stand looking at the game !, and making changes from there like a general in a battlefield.

Caffery wasnt long about getting Homan in when they started to struggle in the middle!.

All in all the greater experience of Laois was a factor. But we did help them out a bit too from the line.
I hope Phil et all learn from it, Get one of the lads up off the sideline and watch the game. At least 90 percent of the people i met afterwards could not understand why Flannery was taken off- did the lads see it different from the sideline?

Larkin was in trouble all day mainly due to the excellent supply of ball that no 12 got ,when he went in full forward.
Again why not switch Horan back Full back where he played all year, or try Grehan on him- he is usually a good man maker, his man did score a point or 2 in the first half but i think he could nothing much about it due to midfield not working back to support.

Knight was havin a great game and could easily have been switched back either.

Im just dissappointed that we showed no flair on the sideline to try and curb Laois and act faster to sort out trouble areas.

Cork- we have a very poor chance of beating them.............Im afraid.

[Lone Shark]

It begs belief why we started that game with the man of the match in the Westmeath game sitting in the subs.
I mean we got hammered in the middle during the first half and all the Management could do is switch around a few players who never were midfielders in the first place. James Gorman has struggled on that team all year! and still got his place ahead of Brady.

On strictly footballing grounds, and starting from scratch, then yes, Brady is one of the best 15 under 18 footballers in Offaly and should get picked, either in the half forward line or at midfield. However - the fact that he missed the Meath game due to injury should not hide the fact that he was suspended and would not have been able to play either way. He got sent off in the dying minutes in Mullingar, and while I've no doubt there was provocation attached, in doing so he let his team mates down with such a rash act. In his absence the team put in their best performance of the year against Meath, with every player contributing. That fifteen deserved to start the final. I might think differently if injury alone was why he missed the Meath match, but it wasn't.

Then to take off Flannery- a very noticable worker up front in the first half, James Guinan is a half back and not too bad at that but as a half forward ?- we had Knight and Grehan which we could have switched up to the half forward line for Guinan if we need more flair up there.

Or Treacy straight in to the half forwards would have made more sense.

I like James Guinan as a footballer, and I certainly think he has a bright future ahead of him - and part of me is thinking that if that shot went a foot the other side of the post we'd have been lauding the change. The truth is that these are 16-18 year old players, who have a lot of development ahead of them, and could yet find whole new roles in unexpected areas of the pitch. Let's not forget that the 1987 All Ireland winning minor hurling team featured Johnny Dooley, the most consistent and accurate scorer this county ever produced - at half back. The management team has been watching and training with these players for some time now, and I wouldn't necessarily say it was the wrong call just because it didn't work out. By leaving Knight and Grehan as attacking wing backs it forced some of those Laois forwards away from goals - which was no bad thing. I knew Laois had a good inside forward line - I didn't realise until yesterday that their half forward line was also very talented.

Regarding Flannery, I'd say part of it was that ultimately he is a hard worker, but a change was needed and the scorers had to stay on. He was playing better than Mulhall or Casey were, but Mulhall ended up having a great second half, while Casey is still our most talented player even if he did have an off day yesterday - by taking him off we would have foregone his capacity to pull a rabbit out of a hat. It was a harsh call on Flannery, but again I can see the logic.

Caffery wasnt long about getting Homan in when they started to struggle in the middle!.

Funnily enough I thought he took way too long to do this. Ryan was clearly not 100% fit, and Clancy caught four or five clean balls and won even more breaks before the change was made. I know this is an aside, but I just thought I'd throw that in there. To be fair to Pillar though, he made the switch and it worked.

Larkin was in trouble all day mainly due to the excellent supply of ball that no 12 got ,when he went in full forward.
Again why not switch Horan back Full back where he played all year, or try Grehan on him- he is usually a good man maker, his man did score a point or 2 in the first half but i think he could nothing much about it due to midfield not working back to support.

Knight was havin a great game and could easily have been switched back either.

It's very easy blame backs in this situation - the truth is that these were some fantastic forwards, and Laois's ball retention up the field was fantastic. They rarely if ever gave the ball away working it up the field, and the ball into the forwards was always low and suited to their own man. Larkin was not ideally suited to a light fast player like Conroy, but anyone would have struggled a bit, and to be fair he stayed goal side of him all day. I think the problem was not anything our backs did against the ball, I would possibly say that they weren't as sharp with it and as such we didn't hold possession as well as Laois did - and this was a seriously contributing factor.

Cork- we have a very poor chance of beating them.............Im afraid.

If Laois were playing Cork people would be saying that they'd have every chance. Our players were quite clearly daunted by the Croke Park thing, and conceded 1-2 early on when they were still very nervous and unsettled. Once Flannery kicked our opening score we got back into the game and were able to match them - just not able to make inroads. If they'd have a chance then so do we.

If the lads can hit the ground running against Cork they have every hope of sneaking this game. Cork are a great side, but they're playing for the All Ireland now, so that's pretty much par for the course from now on.

[TheManFromFerbane]

I don't think there is much analysis to do on this game to be honest. Offaly aren't a prolific scoring team and needed to keep it tight, if we were to win it would have been by one or two points again. The fact that we made such a bad start, probably due to the inexperiance and big occasion, left us chasing a game which we never looked like catching. If the Guinan chance had of gone in, the game would have been back in the melting pot, but it was still no guarantee that we would win, as it was the chance was missed, they got a point and the game was over then. It was harsh on the lads that they got the run of scores at the end and there definitly wasn't that much in it, but too be fair the game is played over the 60 minutes and the first 15 is as important as the last and once they had the lead they just kept getting vital scores everytime we got a run on. Hard luck to the lads and best of luck in the Cork game, there is still another chance to play in croker waiting for them if they can get their act together.

[Barracuda]

"On strictly footballing grounds, and starting from scratch, then yes, Brady is one of the best 15 under 18 footballers in Offaly and should get picked, either in the half forward line or at midfield. However - the fact that he missed the Meath game due to injury should not hide the fact that he was suspended and would not have been able to play either way. He got sent off in the dying minutes in Mullingar, and while I've no doubt there was provocation attached, in doing so he let his team mates down with such a rash act. In his absence the team put in their best performance of the year against Meath, with every player contributing. That fifteen deserved to start the final. I might think differently if injury alone was why he missed the Meath match, but it wasn't. "

You do what ever it takes to win not what it takes to keep everyone happy!. Surely you agree that James Gorman was in trouble in the Meath game - as in the Westmeath game ?
Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Meath would leave off Gerathy if available just because of a previous suspension ?. You need players like Brady and nothing could justify his being in the subs bench on Sunday.Would Dublin on Sunday would have started without Whelen if he got sidelined for that lamping of the Meath player.




I like James Guinan as a footballer, and I certainly think he has a bright future ahead of him - and part of me is thinking that if that shot went a foot the other side of the post we'd have been lauding the change. The truth is that these are 16-18 year old players, who have a lot of development ahead of them, and could yet find whole new roles in unexpected areas of the pitch. Let's not forget that the 1987 All Ireland winning minor hurling team featured Johnny Dooley, the most consistent and accurate scorer this county ever produced - at half back. The management team has been watching and training with these players for some time now, and I wouldn't necessarily say it was the wrong call just because it didn't work out. By leaving Knight and Grehan as attacking wing backs it forced some of those Laois forwards away from goals - which was no bad thing. I knew Laois had a good inside forward line - I didn't realise until yesterday that their half forward line was also very talented.

I totally agree on James Guinan- just look back over my previous comments when I suggested he should be starting (on the Half back line though!) The facts are and these are not opinions by the way- That James is not confident in front of the posts. For now you can only go on what you have- maybe that will change with coaching, Plus the fact - that was the first game of any description with this team that he played as a forward.
Johnny was a score getting half back - youre not comparing apples with apples here.

Regarding Flannery, I'd say part of it was that ultimately he is a hard worker, but a change was needed and the scorers had to stay on. He was playing better than Mulhall or Casey were, but Mulhall ended up having a great second half, while Casey is still our most talented player even if he did have an off day yesterday - by taking him off we would have foregone his capacity to pull a rabbit out of a hat. It was a harsh call on Flannery, but again I can see the logic.

I agree the scorers had to stay on. Flannerry have contributed a point which could easily have under ther posts. So why take him off. There's no logic in taking him off, he was a soft target!


If Laois were playing Cork people would be saying that they'd have every chance. Our players were quite clearly daunted by the Croke Park thing, and conceded 1-2 early on when they were still very nervous and unsettled. Once Flannery kicked our opening score we got back into the game and were able to match them - just not able to make inroads. If they'd have a chance then so do we.


For whats it's worth- I dont give either Laois or Offaly much hope in that double header in Limerick- hope im wrong on that one though.
By the way thats the same Flannery we took off at half time !.

As I said at the start- Laois were the best team, but we helped them out a good bit too.

[Lone Shark]

You do what ever it takes to win not what it takes to keep everyone happy!. Surely you agree that James Gorman was in trouble in the Meath game - as in the Westmeath game ?
Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Meath would leave off Gerathy if available just because of a previous suspension ?. You need players like Brady and nothing could justify his being in the subs bench on Sunday.Would Dublin on Sunday would have started without Whelen if he got sidelined for that lamping of the Meath player.

I disagree with you here - because they are minor footballers. It's no bad thing that at that age Ross is left in no doubt that talent won't be an excuse for unacceptable behaviour. I don't think Gorman was as off the pace as you believe he was against Meath, but that's an opinion debate - the truth is that thinking long term, to parachute Ross straight back into the team after a completely needless red card that let his team mates down would send out a very bad message to young players. By all means bring him on in the game when he can contribute, but Gorman put in a hard hour in Mullingar and didn't do anything stupid. If that lesson stays with the players then something good will have been achieved.

I totally agree on James Guinan- just look back over my previous comments when I suggested he should be starting (on the Half back line though!) The facts are and these are not opinions by the way- That James is not confident in front of the posts. For now you can only go on what you have- maybe that will change with coaching, Plus the fact - that was the first game of any description with this team that he played as a forward.
Johnny was a score getting half back - youre not comparing apples with apples here.

I won't confess to know him or his game well enough to make an observation like that, but I'd say with Duffy going in to full forward, and the change in style at half time, the plan was long ball into the FF line and try and isolate them - leave the HF line foraging around the middle. It probably wasn't expected that he'd end up getting a scoring chance of such importance - none of the other half forwards did.

I'd say he was a half back who got scores rather than a score getting half back - no team picks a defender for their scoring prowess - they might use it as a casting vote if players are otherwise equal. My point though was that players can often find different roles as they get older - pigeon holing minors is generally not ideal.

Regarding Flannery, I'd say part of it was that ultimately he is a hard worker, but a change was needed and the scorers had to stay on. He was playing better than Mulhall or Casey were, but Mulhall ended up having a great second half, while Casey is still our most talented player even if he did have an off day yesterday - by taking him off we would have foregone his capacity to pull a rabbit out of a hat. It was a harsh call on Flannery, but again I can see the logic.

I agree the scorers had to stay on. Flannerry have contributed a point which could easily have under ther posts. So why take him off. There's no logic in taking him off, he was a soft target!

I'd say the logic was a change had to go on in there, and at the end of the day Flannery was seen as a link player rather than a guy who would score freely. That line was not functioning, a change was needed. Not taking off Mulhall was justified as he went on to score 1-2, and even though he was having a 'mare, you couldn't take off Casey just because of what he might do. It was harsh on Flannery, but I can see the thinking.

For whats it's worth- I dont give either Laois or Offaly much hope in that double header in Limerick- hope im wrong on that one though.

As I said at the start- Laois were the best team, but we helped them out a good bit too.

Two Munster teams playing two Leinster teams - if the Munster sides combined score is more than four or five points bigger than the Leinster tally I'll be surprised. That is a good Laois team, no question. They'll be a value bet against Kerry come the day I suspect.

[Barracuda]

I disagree with you here - because they are minor footballers. It's no bad thing that at that age Ross is left in no doubt that talent won't be an excuse for unacceptable behaviour. I don't think Gorman was as off the pace as you believe he was against Meath, but that's an opinion debate - the truth is that thinking long term, to parachute Ross straight back into the team after a completely needless red card that let his team mates down would send out a very bad message to young players. By all means bring him on in the game when he can contribute, but Gorman put in a hard hour in Mullingar and didn't do anything stupid. If that lesson stays with the players then something good will have been achieved.


Im afraid that justification is a very naive one. Ross is not a dirty player, he was giving it his all for the County, im not saying he was right to strike but it was not all his fault either and it was harmless. Thats a fairly stupid reason to leave a lad off for,and to aid the oposition's chance of beating you.

I dont think you will find too many instances of where a manager has done something like that in the past - for that reason.

For whats it worth that was not why he was left off !- so it served no purpose at all if thats the case.

Anyway- it makes no difference now. A manager should know his players are always in the danger zone of getting carded- its a physical game.
Moral calls are nice, but a Leinster would be nice too.

[Lone Shark]

Im afraid that justification is a very naive one. Ross is not a dirty player, he was giving it his all for the County, im not saying he was right to strike but it was not all his fault either and it was harmless. Thats a fairly stupid reason to leave a lad off for,and to aid the oposition's chance of beating you.

I'm not saying he is a dirty player - I haven't seen enough of him playing or I don't know him personally to make a call like that, so I'll take your word for it that he isn't. It's just that actions have consequences - he let his team down by making himself unavailable for the Meath game with a rash act, and the lads who played in that game played well and deserved to start the final.

I don't agree that it's not all his fault. He struck, and he choose to do so. He mightn't have spent long thinking about it - but he chose it. My gut feeling is that he won't do it the next time though.

The fact that Gorman didn't have a great game doesn't mean that the choice couldn't have been justified on football grounds as well. There's a lot to be said for morale and confidence when a team is left intact. It doesn't become the wrong call just because it didn't work out.

Anyway- it makes no difference now. A manager should know his players are always in the danger zone of getting carded- its a physical game.

Let's not lose the run of ourselves here - he didn't get sent off for an overly aggressive shoulder, he didn't aim to knock the ball out of a guys hands and accidentally him him in the torso, and he didn't raise an elbow going up for a high ball and make contact - he struck an opposing player off the ball. That the Westmeath guy may or may not have been equally culpable is neither here nor there. The game is physical and that has no part in it.

[Barracuda]

Brady is one of the best midfielders we have, and God knows we dont have that many of them ! and should have been started- forgot all the rubbish about whether this or whether that- You win games with your best team out, not some sentimental rubbish about whether he got a card or not.
Dont drag the topic off on a tangent too far.
Brady's ommission was not justified. Any attempt to justify it is clutching at straws.

[Lone Shark]

Brady is one of the best midfielders we have, and God knows we dont have that many of them ! and should have been started- forgot all the rubbish about whether this or whether that- You win games with your best team out, not some sentimental rubbish about whether he got a card or not.

It's not sentimental - it's about being fair to the next generation of Offaly senior footballers. I agree with him being among our best players, but I don't think it's as clear cut as all that.

Otherwise explain Fermanagh 2004 without the Gallaghers and assorted others versus Fermanagh 2003/05 who did nothing? I'm not saying Brady is disruptive, but your best individual players do not always make up your best team.

Brady's ommission was not justified. Any attempt to justify it is clutching at straws.

I still think that it was - and I think that it's only hindsight that leads anyone to think any different.

The selectors saw the merit in a settled team and rewarding the players from the last day. Makes sense to me. (I'm aware we're both going to continue to have differing opinions on this by the way, but it's just a compulsive "getting in the last word" disorder.... )

[Barracuda]

It's not sentimental - it's about being fair to the next generation of Offaly senior footballers. I agree with him being among our best players, but I don't think it's as clear cut as all that.

Otherwise explain Fermanagh 2004 without the Gallaghers and assorted others versus Fermanagh 2003/05 who did nothing? I'm not saying Brady is disruptive, but your best individual players do not always make up your best team.

Ah jaysus Shark why do you keep trying to justify something by NOT comparing apples with apples- like the Johnny Dooley thing who by the way was already playing Senior hurling for his club at that time!.
Shure if thats the case Mc Manus will have to go to(now theres a thought....)

I still think that it was - and I think that it's only hindsight that leads anyone to think any different.

Sorry check my post prior to this game when I expected Brady to come back in to strengthen the midfield area.

The selectors saw the merit in a settled team and rewarding the players from the last day. Makes sense to me. (I'm aware we're both going to continue to have differing opinions on this by the way, but it's just a compulsive "getting in the last word" disorder....

)


The team was picked to suit playing against Meath- remember 4 changes from the previous game which they also won by a point- why not stick with that team then ?

Okay- I give up- i've work to do...but Im right and you know it too, or else you wouldnt be coming up with those far off justifications....... lol.

[Lone Shark]

Ah jaysus Shark why do you keep trying to justify something by NOT comparing apples with apples- like the Johnny Dooley thing who by the way was already playing Senior hurling for his club at that time!.
Shure if thats the case Mc Manus will have to go to(now theres a thought....).

Why is it different? I don't get it. I'm not saying Ross is disruptive like the Gallaghers are, just that sometimes the harmony of the team mightn't always be best served by picking the most talented 15 footballers. I'm not arguing for any long term sanctions on the lad here, I can just see a case for both sides, and I'd have gone along with the selectors on this call.

Why does the fact that Johnny was playing senior hurling with his club change the fact that at the time the selectors felt he was best employed at wing back, and that it didn't work out that way?!??!? I've no idea where he was playing for Clareen at the time, but Clareen by dint of their very small population always have a few young lads playing, much like Bergin has been for the last year or so.

The McManus thing is the perfect example. I personally would always pick him, (albeit at centre back) and certainly his game in Carlow was a model of modifying his game to suit the team, but there are those who would hold that the team would be better without him. I don't agree, but that doesn't mean I don't see where they're coming from.

Sorry check my post prior to this game when I expected Brady to come back in to strengthen the midfield area.

Noted - fair point.

The team was picked to suit playing against Meath- remember 4 changes from the previous game which they also won by a point- why not stick with that team then ?

Okay- I give up- i've work to do...but Im right and you know it too, or else you wouldnt be coming up with those far off justifications....... lol.

I'm surprised at you here - your arguments were top class up to this point. Two lads became unavailable, Flannery became available, and I don't think anyone who saw both games would compare the level of performance in the two games. The Westmeath match was a nervy display against a very moderate team that was only close because of a sloppy mistake that led to the goal. The Meath game was against infinitely better opposition, and was a great display the whole way through the team.

I don't think you're right - but I'm not arguing I am either - tis all just beliefs and gut feelings after all.

[Barracuda]

Why is it different? I don't get it. I'm not saying Ross is disruptive like the Gallaghers are, just that sometimes the harmony of the team mightn't always be best served by picking the most talented 15 footballers. I'm not arguing for any long term sanctions on the lad here, I can just see a case for both sides, and I'd have gone along with the selectors on this call.

Well then why use the gallaghers as an example?
The lads knew he was their best midfielder but they chickened out when picking the team. Bet he'll be playing the next day unless due to injury. There is and was no issue regarding harmony in the team with him playing- just chat the rest of the team- they were totally confused by his ommission too.
I am suggesting that you win first or at least try to and sanction all you want after. He worked hard all year and remember Mahon is only a wet week on the panel but was started before him. Yes Mahon played well or ok against Meath but Ross was brill against W/meth when we needed leaders on the field and those kind of leaders inspire and win match's but not from the sideleine.

Why does the fact that Johnny was playing senior hurling with his club change the fact that at the time the selectors felt he was best employed at wing back, and that it didn't work out that way?!??!? I've no idea where he was playing for Clareen at the time, but Clareen by dint of their very small population always have a few young lads playing, much like Bergin has been for the last year or so.

Ah see thats where you are missing the point- did they play Johnny wing back through out that campaign or just slot him in there on the first big day that came ?? Thats what these guys did with James- a half back/corner back all year slotted in for a forward with Treacy sitting on the bench- go figure that out for me please.
My other point is that Johnny was a senior Club player with experience and action up front and scoring freely for Clarreen- a bit like Ken Casey with Brigids. Again not comparable with James to be fair who incidentally is a very nice young chap and a great trier (not a scoring half forward though...)

The McManus thing is the perfect example. I personally would always pick him, (albeit at centre back) and certainly his game in Carlow was a model of modifying his game to suit the team, but there are those who would hold that the team would be better without him. I don't agree, but that doesn't mean I don't see where they're coming from.

Again there is not an issue with Ross not being a team player so the original comparision to the Gallaghers is not justified.

I'm surprised at you here - your arguments were top class up to this point. Two lads became unavailable, Flannery became available, and I don't think anyone who saw both games would compare the level of performance in the two games. The Westmeath match was a nervy display against a very moderate team that was only close because of a sloppy mistake that led to the goal. The Meath game was against infinitely better opposition, and was a great display the whole way through the team.

So am I. But what I really meant here was that something like 7 positional changes were made from the w/meath game which included 2 new starters and unless I'm mistaken included 3 positional changes on the full back line. 2 positional changes at midfield (ross missing was 1) and 2 more on the half or something like that.
The point is that whether you consider the game to be top quality or not afterwards very few of the lads were criticised for their displays but still some 5 or so of them were switched around- why?, Because the team was picked based on Meath's strengths and our strengths to combat them.

Getting back to the original thread-- Brady should have been started - period. And it was a mistake that he was not-whether its hindsight or not.

I don't think you're right - but I'm not arguing I am either - tis all just beliefs and gut feelings after all.

Perhaps thats the difference- sorry but I really do believe Im right. Im not obnoxious or anything like that- Of course I try to justify my reasoning based on what i see and know about the game as does everyone else. It's just that Im better at that than most...................lol (The last bit is only a joke of course - before I bring the wrath of this web-site donw on me.)

[TheManFromFerbane]

PLEASE PLEASE STOP FIGHTING INFRONT OF THE CHILDREN!!